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RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:19:43 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

~FR~

Once again, it is shown, point out a concrete act that is an undeniable positive, i.e. doing something about the deficit (and a freeze or 5% reduction in federal government spending)




When it becomes an act instead of just another lie in a litany of them, it will be a positive.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:21:56 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

When it becomes an act instead of just another lie in a litany of them, it will be a positive.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy




I'm going to save this post, Willbeur...and when and if it comes to pass, I'm going to see if you have the ethics, honesty and guts to say that it is a positive or if you'll just twist it into another mindless anti progressive rant.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:22:49 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You think it was just their closeness that bothers her?



Yeah, I was about to point out what Spinner just said.

You are always the first to complain about hijacking threads, yet here we are.

And my apologies to Spinner for letting myself be drawn into it.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:23:36 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If we have to go begging it is to china.



Exactly. What we should have learned from Japan (but didn't) was how to avoid repeating a banking crisis.

China, on the other hand, is holding all the U.S. debt it wants--by far the largest investor in the U.S.

Until we stop the short-term swipes at political foes and focus on our structural problems, problems we've largely ignored for decades now, we'll keep yelling on our way to hell. We won't have to bow--we'll be low enough already.

We spent our way out of the last three recessions--the first two with monetary policy, but with interest rates already near zero, with fiscal policy added this time. We can't keep doing the same things over and over.

Health care reform, however flawed, is an important step--the status quo is unsustainable, and it opens the door to Medicare/Medicaid reforms, another looming structural crisis, far more serious than Social Security. This will help a lot of struggling states, as well as business in the long run (as they find health care unaffordable themselves). At least it's a start.

Not only the national debt (more than the deficit) but also the trade deficit must be addressed if our currency is to remain stable long term. But we must move beyond the bubble/crisis thinking pattern to looking at structural reality--and making decisions accordingly, even when they hurt.

Continued delusion will just hasten our demise. At least those addressing problems by assigning blame will be happy.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:24:29 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Well, yeah, my bad. I didn't mean for it to be such a total hijack.

My sincerest apologies to all.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Yeah, I was about to point out what Spinner just said.

You are always the first to complain about hijacking threads, yet here we are.

And my apologies to Spinner for letting myself be drawn into it.



_____________________________

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:24:49 AM   
Lucylastic


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To all of you whine-arsing about the Pres having respect for other world leaders, you should try checking out, how much respect it is garnering from the world outside your own doorstep.
And I know most of you whinning about him are against the Pres anyway,, but he is giving the USA back some much needed respect, wether you think you need it or not (you DO!!).
Your REAL enemies will badmouth you no matter what but your friends see it as a positive step.
You are a huge part of the rest of the world, so yes respect, tact and diplomacy matter..







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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:25:03 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

When it becomes an act instead of just another lie in a litany of them, it will be a positive.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy




I'm going to save this post, Willbeur...and when and if it comes to pass, I'm going to see if you have the ethics, honesty and guts to say that it is a positive or if you'll just twist it into another mindless anti progressive rant.




Feel free. Many here disagree with me, a few here deliberately lie about my posts, but nobody here can show any inconsistency or hypocrisy in my positions.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:25:10 AM   
AnimusRex


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Getting back to the original question (the whole bowing crap is just a phony manufactured "poutrage" from people who can't find anything else to criticize)

Taking on the deficit is smart politics; It is a wedge issue that will peel away deficit hawks from the republican party. As it stands now, the military consumes 2/3 of the discretionary budget.
Social Security and Medicare consume nearly all of the non-discretionary budget.

The only way to balance the budget will be to either:
1. Raise taxes; or
2. Cut Defense spending; or
3. Cut SS or Medicare spending; or

Democrats are willing to do 1 and 2; Republicans are only willing to do 3. Guess which one will be more popular?

The smart move is to find a wedge issue, and this will be it; It will pit deficit hawks against defense hawks.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:31:49 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Getting back to the original question (the whole bowing crap is just a phony manufactured "poutrage" from people who can't find anything else to criticize)

Taking on the deficit is smart politics; It is a wedge issue that will peel away deficit hawks from the republican party. As it stands now, the military consumes 2/3 of the discretionary budget.
Social Security and Medicare consume nearly all of the non-discretionary budget.

The only way to balance the budget will be to either:
1. Raise taxes; or
2. Cut Defense spending; or
3. Cut SS or Medicare spending; or

Democrats are willing to do 1 and 2; Republicans are only willing to do 3. Guess which one will be more popular?

The smart move is to find a wedge issue, and this will be it; It will pit deficit hawks against defense hawks.


You missed the best way to balance the budget...grow the economy.

However the point on cutting other programs is not to balance the budget on its own, that isnt going to happen in any of our lifetimes barring an economic breakthrough on the order of the PC. Trimming budgets would slow the growth in the deficit, if it happens.

Unfortunately, department budgets tend to go the way of earmarks, and unless it is a very simple "cut every single non-discretionary budget by 5%" it isnt going to happen. (Or "cut every single non-discretionary non-military budget by 5%", since some of us recognize the problems that Clinton created with the peace dividend).

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:32:13 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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You don't seem to understand where the money to fund the budget has to come from. If we raise taxes now we kill the goose, which is already desperately ill. The only real solution is to cut the budget to the bare bone and do everything we possibly can to get out the way of American businesses, both large and small - and then as business blossoms and grows, simply watch as the budget take care of itself.


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(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:36:36 AM   
Musicmystery


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Fortunately, just leaving two wars, leaving the sick and poor in the U.S. to die, taking our chances with security, and eliminating education will leave no consequences. Everything will be rosy.

At home, if I'm ever in deep economic trouble, I'm just going to stop buying food. When things are better, I'll eat again.

Maybe we should start by cutting subsidies to the Internet and power companies.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/14/2009 9:38:40 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:38:36 AM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
To all of you whine-arsing about the Pres having respect for other world leaders, you should try checking out, how much respect it is garnering from the world outside your own doorstep.
And I know most of you whinning about him are against the Pres anyway,, but he is giving the USA back some much needed respect, wether you think you need it or not (you DO!!).
Your REAL enemies will badmouth you no matter what but your friends see it as a positive step.
You are a huge part of the rest of the world, so yes respect, tact and diplomacy matter..


Lucy, Lucy, Lucy- I tried to find your country on this handy map, but you seem to come from the uninhabited regions of the world; and in refutation to your arguments, let me list them in order:

1. AMERICA is NUMBER ONE!!!!!!
2. Jesus!!
3. Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders! Boo YAH!
4. Drill, Baby, Drill!
5. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb-bomb Iran!
6. U-S-A!!!!
7. In the words of the great Tom Friedman of the NY Times...."Suck. On. This."

Consider yourself informed.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:47:37 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

The problem is how our politicians raid the Treasury in order to purchase votes. Good, bad, right, wrong, Liberal or Conservative, thats just the way it is. Still, everything has to be looked at and prioritized, there isn't unlimited money.

We'll learn one way or another, and evidently its gonna be the hard way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Fortunately, just leaving two wars, leaving the sick and poor in the U.S. to die, taking our chances with security, and eliminating education will leave no consequences. Everything will be rosy.

At home, if I'm ever in deep economic trouble, I'm just going to stop buying food. When things are better, I'll eat again.

Maybe we should start by cutting subsidies to the Internet and power companies.




_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 9:59:01 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
yep just me and 26 million polar bears Rex:)
Snickers and thankyou for putting me so nicely in my place.
I is now informed properly  GO ME!!!


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(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 10:07:34 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

When it becomes an act instead of just another lie in a litany of them, it will be a positive.
ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy




I'm going to save this post, Willbeur...and when and if it comes to pass, I'm going to see if you have the ethics, honesty and guts to say that it is a positive or if you'll just twist it into another mindless anti progressive rant.



If it actually happens I know I'll be cheering it on; though probably with an exasperated "It's about friggin time!" to go with it.  (Same response I'd have given if it'd happened during Bush's term.  It'd be nice if someday our government decided "Hey, let's try NOT spending money we don't have!" for a change...as radical of a concept as it is.)

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
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RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 10:15:51 AM   
Musicmystery


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In the current instance, the term started with an inherited massive structural deficit and a banking crisis.

But otherwise, agreed.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 10:22:20 AM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
You don't seem to understand where the money to fund the budget has to come from. If we raise taxes now we kill the goose, which is already desperately ill. The only real solution is to cut the budget to the bare bone and do everything we possibly can to get out the way of American businesses, both large and small - and then as business blossoms and grows, simply watch as the budget take care of itself.


Ok, lets take a look at the real numbers.

I base my conclusions on WallStats- its a great graphic look at the US Budget.
http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes


First, the basic facts:
The total income for the fiscal year 2010 federal government is $2.333 Trillion. The total spending is $3.591 Trillion. The budget deficit then, stands at 1.405T, or more than a third of the total budget.

Of the $3.591 Trillion, 1.421 Trillion is discretionary, able to be cut. The remaining $2.17 Trillion goes for Social Security, Medicare/ Medicaid, interest on the debt, and so forth. The biggest portion of this is Social Security/ Medicare/ Medicaid accounting for about $1.3 Trillion of the $2.17 Trillion.

The federal discretionary budget for FY 2010 is $1.421 Trillion; It is broken down into military spending $901 Billion (62%) and non-military $520 Billion (38%).

In other words, if you take away Social Security, Medicare, and Defense, you only have $520 Billion, which funds EVERYTHING ELSE THE GOVERNMENT DOES. Department of Agriculture, State, Energy, Education, Interior...everything you imagine the government does is done for $520 billion.
So even if we shut down the entire federal government- shut the doors, turned off the lights, sent everyone home- we would only be cutting about 1/3 of the deficit.

This is why I say it is mathematically impossible to balance the budget without cutting Defense, SS or Medicare. Or raising taxes.

But what about growing the economy? Ok, lets look at that.
Lets assume we have a robust economic growth of 10%; This would raise revenues from $2.1 Trillion to $2.3 Trillion.
Subtract $3.5 Trillion in spending and what do you get?

Massive deficits still.

Lets do this- lets put together a "Conservative" budget. One that is balanced, and fiscally responsible.
Here is the template:
FY 2009
Revenue: $2.1 Trillion:

Social Security/Medicare: $1.3T
Debt Service: $800 B
Defense: $900B
Everything else: $520B
Total: $3.5T
Deficit: ($1.4T)

So using the template, plug in your desired numbers, and play "Balance the Budget Game!"

FY 2010
Revenue: $2.3 Trillion (assuming your growing economy);

Social Security/Medicare:
Debt Service:
Defense:
Everything else:
Total: $2.3 Trillion (This must balance)

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 10:29:36 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Lets do this- lets put together a "Conservative" budget. One that is balanced, and fiscally responsible.
Here is the template:
FY 2009
Revenue: $2.1 Trillion:

Social Security/Medicare: $1.3T
Debt Service: $800 B
Defense: $900B
Everything else: $520B
Total: $3.5T
Deficit: ($1.4T)

So using the template, plug in your desired numbers, and play "Balance the Budget Game!"

FY 2010
Revenue: $2.3 Trillion (assuming your growing economy);

Social Security/Medicare:
Debt Service:
Defense:
Everything else:
Total: $2.3 Trillion (This must balance)


And there's the problem--the Neo-Cons want to take over the world, and that costs money.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 10:39:51 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Nah... the problem is, Liberals want to make the whole world Mom's basement... 

Freeing twenty five million Iraqis? That's humanitarian..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
And there's the problem--the Neo-Cons want to take over the world, and that costs money.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 11/14/2009 10:41:29 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 10:41:21 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

In the current instance, the term started with an inherited massive structural deficit and a banking crisis.


The current Administration should be congratulated on all the actions they've taken to increase the deficit and do nothing to mitigate the "banking crisis".

Bush I stimulus - So good Obama duplicated it.
Banks and Financial institutions too big to fail - Obama uses the same idea to bail out GM & Chrysler.
Unemployment at 6% - Obama's on the way to doubling that result!

YEAH! The crowd goes wild because "there hasn't been enough time!" and "it's Bush's fault" is still echoing in their empty minds. The agenda driven have managed to make all those bad policies good ones simply with a change in the color of the political party's tablecloth.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 60
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