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RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 3:33:55 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Thank you rml, thats awesome. We've found agreement on something. Everyone agrees, there is plenty of room to cut "non-discretionary" spending. Obama agrees, the Republicans agree...
Everyone agrees, except Animus.



Sigh...I gues I have to admit when I have been beat...
Here is the proposed budget agreed to by "everyone"...

FY 2010
Revenue: $More bcos we work real hard

Social Security/Medicare: $What we spent last year, minus a whole lot that we cut
Debt Service: $A bunch
Defense: $A whole lotta
Everything else: $Enough, minus the waste
Total: $About right


I think it was Lenin who said that if you gave the capitalists enough rope, they would hang themselves. Somewhere in Communist China, an central banker is smiling.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 3:39:05 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Incidentally, this story...

High Costs Weigh on Troop Debate for Afghan War

...includes a pop-up graphic about the 2009/est. 2010 cost of the Iraq/Afghan wars.

"about $1 million per soldier per year"

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 3:49:47 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Those have been Obamas wars for nearly a year now, and they're both wars that Democrats voted for in overwhelming numbers.

So what's your point?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 3:53:46 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		What's yours?

Read the story.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 4:59:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
There is plenty of room in the current non-discretionary non-military budget for savings that would help spur the economy. (If not totally drowned out by health care "reform" and crap and tax).


See, this is why the Republican Party will not be taken seriously-
"plenty of room in the current non-discretionary non-military budget for savings "

Non-discretionary, non military- Doesn't this mean cutting Social Security and Medicare? my bad, I meant discretionary non-military

The thing that Obama is proposing?
And the deficit is 1.4Trillion; are you proposing to cut 1.4 trillion, or cut less, and hope that a few hundred billion in growth makes up the difference?
are you ignoring the "grow the economy" part of the posts intentionally?
"...the budget will take care of itself"

Sadly, no. Budgeting is about hard choices and common sense reasoning, not wishing and hoping and praying that we win the lottery. If a corporate CFO made that statement he would be fired on the spot.

I find it ironic that an Obama supporter has laid out real numbers; you have laid out a wishful program of "hoping for change"
Laying out real numbers is not laying out real budget cuts. Ive already said that its great if they actually happen.


(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:05:28 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Playing Trump National tomorrow merc...I'll wave at you two!


Good for you! Pretty steep green's fees. I hope some business is writing them off.

If I weren't fighting a cold (refuse to call it the flu!) we'd join you for a drink! Hit 'em straight! Decent food and drink in the bar. We go there for their brunch every Easter.


The host can afford them, lol.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:07:18 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Did you miss the part where Clinton left office with not only a balanced budget but a surplus?

A surplus that Bush quickly pissed away?
You must have missed the part about a couple of jets going into buildings in NYC.

Ignoring that, and the unilateral, bipartisan response to it to built up military spending and increase security, while the economy was making its first circle around the drain; only points to a vision of those times remembered though a carnival mirror of partisan agenda.

But at least that's consistent.


But didn't the Bush deficit begin before 9/11, with his revenue cuts?


No.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:28:49 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Did you miss the part where Clinton left office with not only a balanced budget but a surplus?

A surplus that Bush quickly pissed away?
You must have missed the part about a couple of jets going into buildings in NYC.

Ignoring that, and the unilateral, bipartisan response to it to built up military spending and increase security, while the economy was making its first circle around the drain; only points to a vision of those times remembered though a carnival mirror of partisan agenda.

But at least that's consistent.


Nonsense and you know it.

We've had this discussion before.

If 9/11 had never happened the tax cuts Bush pushed through would have evaporated the surplus regardless.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:33:42 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Did you miss the part where Clinton left office with not only a balanced budget but a surplus?

A surplus that Bush quickly pissed away?
You must have missed the part about a couple of jets going into buildings in NYC.

Ignoring that, and the unilateral, bipartisan response to it to built up military spending and increase security, while the economy was making its first circle around the drain; only points to a vision of those times remembered though a carnival mirror of partisan agenda.

But at least that's consistent.


Nonsense and you know it.

We've had this discussion before.

If 9/11 had never happened the tax cuts Bush pushed through would have evaporated the surplus regardless.



There was no surplus.  The deficit increased every year during the Clinton years.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:36:29 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

my bad, I meant discretionary non-military[/color]

are you ignoring the "grow the economy" part of the posts intentionally?[/color]


I feel I am trapped in a Monty Python skit;
Please, just read the flogging numbers- The ENTIRE discretionary non-military budget is 1/3 of the deficit; You can delete the entire government and still have One trillion dollars in deficit. So when you say "plenty of room for cuts in the discretionary budget, what in the world do you mean?

"grow the economy" Again, read the post- Even assuming a rip roaring 10% increase in revenue, we will still have a One Trillion dollar deficit.

If you sense frustration here, it is not just with you; There was a time, long ago, when the Republicans were the calm, reasonable, sensible voices, who went around saying sensible things like "there is no free lunch" and "you need to pay in taxes for what you receive in services";

Those days are long gone. Today the Republican Party is the party of voodoo economics that assume revenue and expenditures don't need to balance. The argument that taxes should not crush the conomy has transformed into a weird cultish faith that refuses to subject itself to empirical evidence, that relies on the scam of thinking that tax cuts pay for themselves, that wars pay for themselves, and a sound responsible fiscal policy can be achieved with no effort, no hard work or sacrifice. The Republicans have become the party of the free lunch.

There are no Republican or conservative pundits, politicians, or even bloggers anywhere who are making a serious stab at budget proposals; they are all just wishful dreaming, vague arguments about welfare queens, and a fond hope that somehow, by some magic, the deficit will just vanish.

Others, like Dick Cheney are more forthright; he simply told GWB that deficits don't matter. And to him, they didn't. And so no one with any sense trusts the Republicans with fiscal policy any more.

Once more, for clarity- if you disagree with my conclusions, just take the budget numbers I laid out for this year, and adjust them to whatever you would like them to be for next year, and lets talk about it. Until then, you are just ducking the issue.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:38:43 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

But didn't the Bush deficit begin before 9/11, with his revenue cuts?


No.



Well, I guess that settles it.

If Willbeur says no we can accept that as fact.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:45:03 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


There was no surplus.  The deficit increased every year during the Clinton years.


You're mistaking deficit for national debt.

The last two years of the Clinton administration had a budget surplus which the CBO predicted (and as usual, incorrectly) would continue under the Bush administration.

I would provide the links but I've posted it many times here before.

But the information is easy to find.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:45:12 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I would get into this debate but I have my own problems this weekend. For the 4th time this year I will be at Lambeau Field. There is a problem though. The 12 time world champion Green Bay Packers are 4 and 4. After the Dallas Cowboys come to town tomorrow, we will be 4 and 5 . I will probably have to have a few more cocktails to cope..GO PACK..

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:47:41 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


There was no surplus.  The deficit increased every year during the Clinton years.


You're mistaking deficit for national debt.

The last two years of the Clinton administration had a budget surplus which the CBO predicted (and as usual, incorrectly) would continue under the Bush administration.

I would provide the links but I've posted it many times here before.

But the information is easy to find.


Yes, I meant the debt increased every year during the Clinton administration.  Which meant there was a deficit.  My source being through the Dept of the Treasury website.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 5:58:24 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I would get into this debate but I have my own problems this weekend. For the 4th time this year I will be at Lambeau Field. There is a problem though. The 12 time world champion Green Bay Packers are 4 and 4. After the Dallas Cowboys come to town tomorrow, we will be 4 and 5 . I will probably have to have a few more cocktails to cope..GO PACK..


While I'm a Browns fan (who aren't doing any better) I've always had the Packers as my secondary team.

I remember reading about Bart Starr and Lombardi in grade school.

But the thing I admire most is they are community-owned.  At least I think that is still true.



(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 6:00:49 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The CBO source...

http://www.cbo.gov/budget/data/historical.pdf



quote:

The swing in the Federal budget from deficit to surplus has resulted in nearly a doubling of the net national saving rate, making more funds available for private investment. (And incidentally, the improvement in the Federal budget deficit - now a surplus - accounts for all of the improvement in national saving.) Surging investment, especially in equipment incorporating the latest advances in technology, has contributed to a pickup in workers' productivity growth - and ultimately, in their wages.


http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/ls1088.htm

quote:

President Clinton and Vice President Gore, working with the Congress, set the
nation on a new course of fiscal responsibility. This program has reversed the
pattern of deficit spending. In fiscal year 1999, a surplus of $99 billion, or
1.1 percent of GDP is expected. This would be the largest surplus relative to
GDP since 1951. We have ended 28 consecutive years of deficit spending and
recorded the first back-to-back surpluses since 1956-57.
ยท In early 1993, the Federal budget was projected to be in deficit by $429 billion in
1999. Instead, we now expect a surplus of $99 billion. This amounts to a saving
of almost $530 billion for 1999 alone.


http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/reports/debt.pdf

umm... no surplus?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 6:02:45 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		They are the only team in the NFL that are community owned ( share holders ). They are run like a company with a board o directors..Pretty neat for a city with a population of 100,000.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 6:05:20 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Yes, I meant the debt increased every year during the Clinton administration.  Which meant there was a deficit.  My source being through the Dept of the Treasury website.


Then post it, I'm tired of doing research to dispute erroneous claims.

You made the claim, back it up with facts.



(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 6:06:03 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Yet the national debt increased each year.
Go to the U.S. Treasury website: http://www.ustreas.gov/
Click on "Bureaus": Takes you to http://www.ustreas.gov/bureaus/
Click on "Bureau of the Public Debt": Takes you to http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/
Scroll down to the section "The U.S. Public Debt" and click on "See the U.S. Public Debt to the Penny."

Punch in the dates for the years in question, and you'll see the actual debt numbers, without the voodoo used to show a surplus where none existed.  Clinton's last year in Office, we gained almost 18 billion dollars in debt. (Which is better than anyone's done since, but still a deficit.)

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 11/14/2009 6:07:35 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Obama Takes On The Deficit - 11/14/2009 6:09:25 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Oh, and also crunching the numbers you'll find that Clinton's last budget proposal for fiscal year 2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit, thus the growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 100
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