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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 1:27:53 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Can I just ask if the people who are whining about about having an uppity nigger in the white house trusted the government during the previous administration?

When you find them, please report back.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 1:37:47 PM

Moonhead

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That's you for a start, sweetie. Or can you demonstrate that you were arguing that the Government was inherently evil when an Ivy league drop out with a fake accent was running it?

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 2:32:15 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

That's you for a start, sweetie. Or can you demonstrate that you were arguing that the Government was inherently evil when an Ivy league drop out with a fake accent was running it?

First, Ive never said the government is "inherently evil", just demonstrably incompetent and overstepping the role of government. Second, I wasn't posting here then, but you wont find any posts that refer back to the GWB administration inconsistent with that position.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 3:38:09 PM

Mercnbeth

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The product of an entitlement mentality is being exhibited today in LA at UCLA.

About 30 students stormed UCLA's Campbell Hall and barricaded the doors with chains and bike locks early this morning to protest a student fee increase that is expected to be endorsed by the University of California�s Board of Regents today. The proposed two-step student fee increase would raise UC undergraduate education costs more than $2,500, or 32%.The annual cost of a UC education, not including campus-based fees would rise to $10,302.

On the surface, not a bad reason to protest, higher cost for an education that perhaps many feel entitled for free. However, what's the reality of the situation? CA is bleeding cash. The California Legislative Analyst's Office issued a report yesterday that says the state's General Fund is going to come up $20 billion short when its present budget ends
Earilier this year in February we the taxpayers of CA were subject to the highest tax increase of $12.8 Billion. The largest tax increase in the history of the US. Businesses and people are leaving the state as soon as they can. Leaving fewer tax payers to pay for increasing entitlements.

Lets look at one example of government involvement in choice that contributes negatively to the problem. A recently passed law concerning what kind of TV you can buy in CA. Great "good intent" especially for the Orthodox global religion fanatics.The first-in-the-nation criteria, approved unanimously Wednesday by the five-member California Energy Commission, is aimed at cutting the amount of electricity used by new high-definition TVs of up to 58 inches by a third starting Jan. 1, 2011. More stringent rules that take effect Jan. 1, 2013, would create a cumulative 50% power savings.As a result the TV's you can buy in CA will be more expensive. Unfortunately for the tax billers in CA, CA is NOT an island yet. Their laws don't extend beyond the borders. So far, the pending TV Buying Law, doesn't have any provisions in it which would enable police to come in and check your TV energy consumption. There is no provision for new TV Box inspections at any CA border. So, you want a big TV that doesn't meet CA law - take a trip to a neighboring state and buy one. Lost to CA is not only the benefit, but the sales tax, the highest in the land. Think people won't do it? Well, for any purchase I make over $500, I wait until I'm on a business trip and bring it home. Usually the shipping is less than the higher sales tax.

But this pragmatic action seems to be lost on the Sacramento bureaucrats. The passed the 'solution' and implemented it back in February promising this would be the last tax increase necessary. Well as a result of REVENUE dropping - here in November, requiring the 'fore-sight' of nine months, CA has a projected deficit for next year of...drum roll please....another $21 Billion!

But the students of UCLA feel they are entitled to no tax increase. They want to eat their own young. Cut other services and bureaucratic management, cut the prison system, cut transportation, aid to illegal aliens, homeless services. You see, this time they can't blame "big business" or any business; this is government business - as usual. Yet we need more to protect us. From what?

BTW, $10,302 for a year's tuition is VERY inexpensive compared with other major universities of the caliber of UCLA.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 11/19/2009 3:42:04 PM >

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 3:48:04 PM

cuckoldmepls

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Oh you won't believe this. I always thought financial aid only paid for books and tuition. Wrong. I know someone who was paid thousands extra just for going to college. I certainly understand the need for financial aid, but this is just absurd.
I'm sure liberals think it's great though.

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. - G. Gordon Liddy

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 4:11:27 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The product of an entitlement mentality is being exhibited today in LA at UCLA.

About 30 students stormed UCLA's Campbell Hall and barricaded the doors with chains and bike locks early this morning to protest a student fee increase that is expected to be endorsed by the University of California�s Board of Regents today. The proposed two-step student fee increase would raise UC undergraduate education costs more than $2,500, or 32%.The annual cost of a UC education, not including campus-based fees would rise to $10,302.

On the surface, not a bad reason to protest, higher cost for an education that perhaps many feel entitled for free. However, what's the reality of the situation? CA is bleeding cash. The California Legislative Analyst's Office issued a report yesterday that says the state's General Fund is going to come up $20 billion short when its present budget ends
Earilier this year in February we the taxpayers of CA were subject to the highest tax increase of $12.8 Billion. The largest tax increase in the history of the US. Businesses and people are leaving the state as soon as they can. Leaving fewer tax payers to pay for increasing entitlements.

Lets look at one example of government involvement in choice that contributes negatively to the problem. A recently passed law concerning what kind of TV you can buy in CA. Great "good intent" especially for the Orthodox global religion fanatics.The first-in-the-nation criteria, approved unanimously Wednesday by the five-member California Energy Commission, is aimed at cutting the amount of electricity used by new high-definition TVs of up to 58 inches by a third starting Jan. 1, 2011. More stringent rules that take effect Jan. 1, 2013, would create a cumulative 50% power savings.As a result the TV's you can buy in CA will be more expensive. Unfortunately for the tax billers in CA, CA is NOT an island yet. Their laws don't extend beyond the borders. So far, the pending TV Buying Law, doesn't have any provisions in it which would enable police to come in and check your TV energy consumption. There is no provision for new TV Box inspections at any CA border. So, you want a big TV that doesn't meet CA law - take a trip to a neighboring state and buy one. Lost to CA is not only the benefit, but the sales tax, the highest in the land. Think people won't do it? Well, for any purchase I make over $500, I wait until I'm on a business trip and bring it home. Usually the shipping is less than the higher sales tax.

But this pragmatic action seems to be lost on the Sacramento bureaucrats. The passed the 'solution' and implemented it back in February promising this would be the last tax increase necessary. Well as a result of REVENUE dropping - here in November, requiring the 'fore-sight' of nine months, CA has a projected deficit for next year of...drum roll please....another $21 Billion!

But the students of UCLA feel they are entitled to no tax increase. They want to eat their own young. Cut other services and bureaucratic management, cut the prison system, cut transportation, aid to illegal aliens, homeless services. You see, this time they can't blame "big business" or any business; this is government business - as usual. Yet we need more to protect us. From what?

BTW, $10,302 for a year's tuition is VERY inexpensive compared with other major universities of the caliber of UCLA.

Its just another demonstration of the stupidity of the CA legislature. Hmmmm, theyve increased withholding by a 10% surcharge. I think I'll raise my exemption
Mnb: PV hasn't changed much in 15 years has it (except the coast of course)? A couple of more asian banks at the bottom of the hill and thats about it! My old neighborhood (near Crest and Crenshaw) doesnt even look like theres been a change in the color of any houses!

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 4:17:43 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Oh you won't believe this. I always thought financial aid only paid for books and tuition. Wrong. I know someone who was paid thousands extra just for going to college. I certainly understand the need for financial aid, but this is just absurd.
I'm sure liberals think it's great though.

I, for one, think it would be great of you'd explain what the heck you're talking about. People getting paid thousands of dollars to go to college? Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 5:57:39 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Why is it that so many here point to government, whether through regulation or entitlement, as a source to improve their own personal situation?

Speaking only for people whom I am familiar with, in my near vicinity; when you know you’re going to be fucked, knowing how, when, and where is a touch more comforting, than not knowing.

How is capitalizing off of others not a form of entitlement? What makes one kind better than another?

Kim (still trying to figure out when the ‘good ole days’ actually existed)

"teach your children well, their father's hell will slowly go by" C, S & N

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 6:02:34 PM

Rhodes85

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'I'm not sure that's true. There's a lot of examples of communism working very well indeed, it's just that all of those are on a much smaller than national scale. '

Umm...Would you mind explaining what you are referring to? It is intended to be implemented on a national scale, at least in the context of a government. Clearly those governments do not uphold the concept of what communism is intended to actually be.

'Is this a reference to Soviet Russia? The fall of the Berlin Wall seems like less of a death knell for communism than before our current financial crash. So that's the ultimate proof that 'capitalism' is better? An extra twenty years? '

No I wasn't referring specifically to Soviet Russia. Russia, East Germany, Cuba, Laos, China, Vietnam are all examples of countries that attempted to function as communist states. In practice, aside from collectivization (which was never implemented very well or accepted by the people rather than implemented through force) those governments did not actually function as intended in a true communist state. In reality they turned into pseudo-fascist dictatorships ruled by force. In short they had far more in common with imperial or fascist countries than communism is intended to be. Aside from that, if you have noticed vitually all communist states have abandoned communism in favor of a more capitalist economy. I didn't mean to imply that capitalism is 'better' merely that communism doesn't work as well in practice as it does in theory.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 7:28:40 PM

Hierodule

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I started my college education in CA thanks to the Board of Governors Fee Waiver. Its not the student's fault the state budget isn't balanced. The fee hike isn't a big deal for the kids at UCLA that are there on their parents dime. But some of those people actually have their own kids and worked hard to get back into school after living life for a few years. For those people a couple thousand more dollars a year is the difference between continuing their education or dropping out.

I guess all those useless students should just get loans to pay for their educations. YAY DEBT! Thats what I did and I'm still paying for it. I got the full pell grant and everything and I still had to get loans to pay for the rest. The only people I ever knew who had "thousands" extra just for going to school were people who took out loans above and beyond what was needed for tuition and fees etc. or were lucky/skilled/talented enough to get scholarships.

side note: I don't understand why people who protest an increase in taxes are seen as heroes, but people who protest a fee hike at a state school are the product of entitlement mentality.

Oh well. I guess those of us who don't have money to throw at the problems of our fellow men can still be liberal somehow.

< Message edited by Hierodule -- 11/19/2009 7:33:27 PM >

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 7:31:39 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85

'I'm not sure that's true. There's a lot of examples of communism working very well indeed, it's just that all of those are on a much smaller than national scale. '

Umm...Would you mind explaining what you are referring to? It is intended to be implemented on a national scale, at least in the context of a government. Clearly those governments do not uphold the concept of what communism is intended to actually be.

Probably communes, lmao.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 7:35:44 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I'm not sure that's true. There's a lot of examples of communism working very well indeed, it's just that all of those are on a much smaller than national scale.

Families?

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:00:26 PM

MzMia

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I certainly do not totally trust the government, but I trust them a lot more than private industry.

Let's see, GOVERNMENT on one side =============== CORPORATIONS, PRIVATE INDUSTRY, AND EVERYONE NON GOVERNMENT ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Which side will I pick?????

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, life or death situation???????

The government!!!!!!!!!!!!

Situations like: child labor at the turn of the century, sweat shops, outsourcing jobs to 3rd world countries and paying children and adults to work 12 hours a day for $5, and many other scenario's quickly come to my mind.

Thanks! but no thank you!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/19/2009 8:10:11 PM >

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:09:17 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I certainly do not totally trust the government, but I trust them a lot more than private industry.

Let's see, GOVERNMENT on one side =============== CORPORATIONS, PRIVATE INDUSTRY, AND EVERYONE NON GOVERNMENT ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Which side will I pick?????

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, life or death situation???????

The government!!!!!!!!!!!!

Situations like: child labor at the turn of the century, sweat shops, outsourcing jobs to 3rd world countries and paying children and adults to work 12 hours a day for $5, and many other scenario's quickly come to my mind.

Poor deluded child.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:13:10 PM

MzMia

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To be middle aged and called a child, makes me smile!

Thank you!

People like you with your generous spirits and big hearts would surely pay us all very well, we would have great benefits, insurance, and fat pensions, and we would have the best working conditions imaginable.

---------------------------> Running and looking for the government, before willb puts us in REAL slavery.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/19/2009 8:14:20 PM >

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:15:36 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

To be middle aged and called a child, makes me smile!

Thank you!

People like you with your generous spirits and big hearts would surely pay us all very well, we would have great benefits, insurance, and fat pensions, and we would have the best working conditions imaginable.

---------------------------> Running and looking for the government, before willb puts us in REAL slavery.

Talk to my employees and you'll see that your sarcasm is misplaced.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:20:40 PM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
All those movements you mention have one thing in common - 'good intentions' combined with resources available at the time to accomlish a goal. Did any of them solve anything? Are we without corruption in industry since Teddy broke up the Trusts? Has the 'New Deal' generated 100% employment? Did the 'Great Society' make us all equal or create, by statute a 'more equal' group? Did 'Reaganomics' trickle down to all? No - ALL Failed. The problem is many are still be funded with no end in sight in lieu of consideration of alternatives. You give failures as reasoning to continue down the current path of a government solution. They provide a reason to think that there must be a better way.

OK, lets take this one at a time:
Are we without corruption in industry since Teddy broke up the Trusts? Did TR eradicate all fraud and corruption? Um, no. But yes, he did eradicate a tremendous amount of corruption and monopoly; the fact that we have a competitive market in gacoline and petroleum today? A direct result of the breakup of Standard Oil; the fact that we have a Food & Drug Administration to inspect meat? Again, a direct result of the Progresive Era at the turn of the century.
By any reasonable standard, the reforms of that era made huge improvements in our society.

Has the 'New Deal' generated 100% employment? No. But it DID put millions- literally, millions of people to work during the Depression, when the private markets simply could not. It is a certainty that actual famine and starvation would have resulted had the New Deal not occurred. And it DID result in Social Security, which even today keeps millions of old people out of poverty. It resulted in soil conservation, agricultural price stabliization, without with the farms that feed America would be a wasteland. The list of things that the New Deal did would take pages; it would be absurd to say that it did not benefit us.

Did the 'Great Society' make us all equal or create, by statute a 'more equal' group? Yes...Emphatically, yes.
The Civil Rights Bill, the war on poverty- these things had mixed results, with some failures. But to sweep them aside and say they were failures is foolish; it overlooks genuine progress in our society.

If you want to argue that the government is too intrusive, great- I can agree, and can find areas where it should retreat. But is you want to go on to a general dismissal of the ability of government to make society better, or do constructive things, then I would disagree.

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:21:26 PM

MzMia

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You may be a generous and wonderful employer.

Sorry, as a woman of color, I must have missed that part in my history classes, where all the large corporations/and big business fought hard to abolish slavery, pass labor laws, women's rights, child labor laws, and civil rights legislation, and I just know most of the plantation owners in the South, corporations and businesses where fighting against slavery to free my ancestors 150 years ago.

Timeline: The United States

< Message edited by MzMia -- 11/19/2009 8:28:19 PM >

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:24:41 PM

Rhodes85

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85

'I'm not sure that's true. There's a lot of examples of communism working very well indeed, it's just that all of those are on a much smaller than national scale. '

Umm...Would you mind explaining what you are referring to? It is intended to be implemented on a national scale, at least in the context of a government. Clearly those governments do not uphold the concept of what communism is intended to actually be.

Probably communes, lmao.

Hippy communes....and even the hippies gave up on those. Well for the most part

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RE: Why do you rely on and trust the Government? - 11/19/2009 8:28:40 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

You may be a generous and wonderful employer.

Sorry, as a woman of color, I must have missed that part in my history classes, where all the large corporations/and big business fought hard to pass labor laws, women's rights, child labor laws, and civil rights legislation, and I just know most businesses where fighting against slavery to free my ancestors 150 years ago.

No, what you may have missed is that we are not the same nation that we were 30, 50, 100 or 150 years ago. Information technology has empowered the collective population where the practices of the past would be unsustainable today.

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