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ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Even if you add in 1100 for 12 months $23,500 is extremely low compared to other state Us and of course ridiculously low compared to similarly respected privates.

To threadjack for a sec (and I apologize for it) - I think the era of the $100,000 college education is over. The era of taking on six figures of debt to get a degree that won't get you an above average job is done. Getting a degree in something "fun" without really considering exactly what you're going to be doing for a living is going to be a thing of the past.

A lot fewer people are going to be getting college degrees. College enrollment is going to drop. The prestigious institutions will survive, as will the ones that provide a highly valued education for a low price. The mid-tier universities are going to be winnowed.

Oh, and online education is going to soar.

To save myself from total threadjack - I don't trust the government at all. I acknowledge that there is a minimum amount of government that is necessary to the functioning of an orderly and stable society but beyond that, it's a boondoggle. At this point, I wonder exactly how much incompetence has to be shown before people start to wake up. Every failure is treated as an anomaly. If only we elect the right person/party it will all be okay.

The handling of Katrina was a mistake. The educational system failing is an exception.  Iraq was an oops. The economic meltdown was an anomaly . Social Security heading for bankruptcy is an aberration. I could go on and on. At what point do you say maybe it's not just one more mishap but instead part of a systemic problem?

I think the system needs a shake up. A serious redesign. The sad part is, the very people who would jump at that chance are exactly the ones who got us into the messes we're in now.

[Edited. Typos. You know the deal.]

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Why is it that so many here point to government, whether through regulation or entitlement, as a source to improve their own personal situation?

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I personally would rather take my chances with people whom I can elect and dismiss based on a judgment of qualities/experience/competence than I would the rule of the jungle.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

A poorly managed business, until recently, failed. A poorly managed government is self perpetrating even if the titular heads wear different party colors.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

A poorly managed business, until recently, failed. A poorly managed government is self perpetrating even if the titular heads wear different party colors.

Not so sure that stands up to scrutiny.

The Enron fiasco was the tip of an iceberg with businesses treating loans as income/putting loans through subsiduaries and not consolidating them in the accounts/employing external auditors who were also the consultants/ignoring risk management or practicing sub-standard risk management/employing lax controls over financial statements or simply lying to their shareholders on the quality of their performance. All of this was hidden for years and was exposed only by whistleblowers. The recent financial crisis is far from the first time executives have prospered from bad pratice.

At least we can vote out the government.

Is there a circle that can't be closed here? The idea that people are driven ultimately by self-interest and form government as a matter of convenience. Assuming we are driven by self-interest - what is going to keep the less ethical at bay in the absence of government regulation?

And how come we live in this imperfect world yet everything is fair and proper in the business world where everyone gets what's coming to them?

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And how come we live in this imperfect world yet everything is fair and proper in the business world where everyone gets what's coming to them?

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Notice, that wasn't specific to a Democratic or Republican led government. Why is it that so many here point to government, whether through regulation or entitlement, as a source to improve their own personal situation?

Scientific and social studies have generated results that rationalize our race, age, sex, personal experience, are the cause for our issues. There are no more misbehaving children, they are only suffering from ADD, ADHD, or the newest rage aspergers syndrome. I remember when that fad was starting in the schools. Now those children are 'adults'. Yet it appears they still seek rationalized excuses for their misbehavior; few look in the mirror. "I was coerced to take on a house and mortgage I couldn't afford." "I didn't think to try and buy medical insurance at my age until I found out I had cancer." Is anyone at fault anymore for their personal situation?

Don't misunderstand, the people behind those entities who "took advantage" deserve similar scrutiny. "We had to cave in to union demands and bankrupt GM." Or as Bernie said on his way to jail. "I took advantage of a regulatory loophole. I had the best intent to pay back everyone as soon as the economy turned around." It's never the fault of the person, even when they are caught.

Have so many been told for so long that personal accountability is no longer the case that the majority believe it as fact, abdicate any hope for self sufficiency, and find their only hope in government regulation, laws, and benefits to lead them in their daily life?

There is still so much opportunity. The window may not be as wide as it was, but it's not closed. Whether you can tell the difference and your identity is locked into the philosophy of one political party or the other; what do you see from those in power that gives you confidence that the condition of your life will improve even marginally as a result of action take by the government, not needing any more effort from you?

What result can you point to that supports any hope that government involvement is beneficial to you personally or the country at large?

I'm sincerely curious and hope to see some good reason to trust the current ruling class, under current the entrenched PAC and Lobbying environment, doing anything for any of us.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

but (although you will never see this) we dont trust ourselves either, we should stand a lot more together regardless of our very polarized differences, and stand on the one thing we do agree on, this is not a government that is by for and of the people........and we need to get it back to that.

Ron