RE: Cheating spouses (Full Version)

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frazzle -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 11:39:09 AM)

If all parties know whats going on, its not cheating, if they dont it is.



Viridana -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 3:24:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Oh please. I'll be the first one to say that I made awful choices. But you coming in here saying that the other half of a broken marriage takes no blame in the situation is just ridiculous.


It takes two to make a crappy marriage crappy. But that does not give one of the spouse the right or justification to cheat on the other. I'm sorry that you're reading comprehension is that lacking.

And yes I will fully state without no perplexity that the other half of a broken marriage is not to blame for you going out and cheating on them. They did not force you to do anything of the sorts, they did not hold a freaking gun to your head, ordering you to pull down your pants and fuck your jumpoff. That is solely the cheaters choice and he takes full responsibility for that, regardless of how crappy the marriage was and/or is.



GYPSYMAMBO -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 4:32:31 PM)

  1. quote:

    ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

    1) cheat =sex" 

    With regard to the above, I do NOT think "Cheat = Sex". 

    Why? Because:

    1.  Some have open sexual relationships (swinging and such)
    2.  Some have poly relationships (sex with more than one person)
    3.  Some have never even met... (an EMOTIONAL attachement)

    Thus, as you alluded to, HONESTY determines "cheating", not the physical act of "sex".



I understand that having sex does not mean you are cheating
IF EVERYONE KNOWS(* I have had 5 partners in a POLY home)
what I meant was..when OP said..
:"Should I enable him to cheat:;?
SHE MEANT sex..
 
GM



wisdomtogive -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 4:44:26 PM)

I am wondering if you might be seeking him to enable you to cheat on your husband? If there are reasons that your marriage isn't the right one for you, perhaps address that first, instead of you two enabling each other to cheat. Just a thought.



marie2 -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 5:48:03 PM)

Your avatar speaks volumes.




Lucienne -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 6:28:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

What has his wife ever done to you that makes her deserve that kind of humiliation and pain from you?


I think it's healthier to appeal to a person's sense of self-interest (fucking around with married guys is a stupid idea) than it is to put third parties in charge of enforcing marital vows they had no role in.

/hobby horse



Good for you. I disagree. I think most people claim to be good people who would never willingly hurt or harm other people. And I think that reminding them of that an innocent person is the one whos gonna get hurt. Maybe if people stopped being self centred and focusing on self interest theyd be able to live up to the "I'm a good person who'd never harm another" ideal that most of them claim to have.

I'm sorry, but if you willfully and knowingly take part in adultery as the outside person, your hands ain't clean.



The part that I see, which you don't seem to acknowledge, is that people frequently have competing interests. We can't always all get what we want. Competition for limited resources is part of most of our lives. By competing for and winning a particular job, I'm willingly and knowingly "hurting" others who want that same job. It isn't my goal to hurt them. But it's an incidental effect of me pursuing my interests. You'd probably think it was silly to accuse a bride of willingly and knowingly hurting all the other women who have romantic intentions towards the groom. But there she is, the bride is interfering with those other women's interest. Of course, she does so with the consent and cooperation of the groom. In the same way that the cheater consents and cooperates with the woman he's not married to. It's not exactly the same thing. But it's closer than many people seem to want to admit.



Rhodes85 -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 6:49:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Personally I could never support such an action regardless of the circumstances.

How nice for you. Newsflash, Sparky, it isn't always that simple and I suspect that certain "circumstances" might just surprise you.


Actually it is that simple in that regard. No one forces a person to cheat. It is a conscious and usually selfish choice a person makes. Cheating proves two things: (1) You do not respect the person, and (2) You are too much of a coward to actually say to your spouse that something is wrong with the relationship and actually do something to try and fix it. Quite simple, it is 'taking the easy way out' in that you can find someone else rather than work on fixing the relationship you are already in. That being said it also shows that you cannot be trusted. There are no excuses to cheat and no legitimate reason as to why you should do so. If things are not working out either try to work things out with your spouse or end the relationship before starting something with someone else.

That being said you would be very hard pressed to come up with a situation that would suprise me. and as far as cheating goes, I cannot even imagine a situation that would justify doing so.

'In a perfect world people would leave their partners before seeking out someone new. . However, anyone who has ever been in an abusive relationship knows that one of the aspects of that is that the abuser convinces you that no one else would ever want you, that being beaten down daily is more attention then you merit and you need to be grateful for it. And you come to believe him/her.'

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I have seen this situation happen to people several times. Family, friends, friends of friends. and it has been my experience that people that cheat in this situation rather than leaving outright use such abuse to justify their actions. In short they claim that they are 'afraid to leave because he might hurt me or nobody else would want me' when it is quite clear that if either were true, you would be more likely to be harmed by him for cheating rather than leaving, to say nothing of the fact that having found someone to cheat with to begin with clearly disproves the other statement. Many people use it as an excuse and even convince themselves that it is true to justify their actions.

'That innocent third party is often times not quite so innocent in the demise of the marriage to the point of their spouse looking elsewhere. To say that a marriage ends purely because of just one half of that marriage is usually unrealistic. It takes two people to have a successful marriage and it also takes two people to have an unsuccessful marriage. Let's not put the blame all on the head of the cheater. '

I completely agree that its not likely that the person being cheated on is completely innocent in regards to the relationship being in a bad place, however that could easily take on a 'poor me' mentality that can be used to justify cheating. Again, nobody forces you to do it.

'If you choose to break trust with your spouse, it makes you a crappy spouse, regardless of how dead your marriage already was and regardless of how annoying or whateveryoufeel like your spouse is'

I have to agree. No matter how a person chooses to justify it, if the marriage is so bad that you are going to find someone else, it is time to end it outright before you do so.

'Oh please. I'll be the first one to say that I made awful choices. But you coming in here saying that the other half of a broken marriage takes no blame in the situation is just ridiculous. '

Umm....I don't think thats what viranda said at all....From what I read it sounded like it was stated that both people in the marriage had at least some responsibility for the marriage going bad. At least that was my understanding of it.
I have to concur with breatheasone.

'A cheating spouse tells you what you want to hear to get what he/she wants...they are very smooth about that.   The form of sex is not meant to be mutually gratifying, but to fullfill his/her own need.  Knowing you are with a cheating spouse, your life must not be peachy, so he /she can feed off that by giving you a sad sack story of why they are still married, and you will be sympathetic and be an enabler.  '

angi I could not have said that better myself.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 8:38:14 PM)

FR-

I'm always amused by the concept that if you are involved in the BDSM lifestyle, the concepts of cheating are somehow different. They really aren't. "Cheating" is simply no more and no less than doing something outside the bounds of the agreement both parties believe they have. As many have said, cheating can occur in poly relationships. Why? Because all the parties involved had an agreement about what was or was not acceptable in the relationship.

Having said that, there ARE some differences. In the "typical" marriage, the parties don't sit down and discuss the concept of whether or not they are going to have sexual and/or intimate partners outside the marital relationship. It is implied they won't when they can married. It's kind of one of the major concepts behind marriage. Do many people have open marriages? Yes. Do many people have "swinger" lifestyles? Sure. Are there many married people who also participate in BDSM? You betcha. But in all of those circumstance, the people involved have had some type of discussion about what is and is not acceptable in THEIR situation. Hell, I know of people who agree that it isn't cheating as long as it is only a one night stand. That's their agreement. I don't have to agree with it, it isn't my relationship.

But when people seem to think that it is ok to deceive their spouse because whatever need they have isn't being met by their spouse, they are nothing more than cowards. If you can't have the conversation, obviously something is wrong. If your spouse isn't meeting your needs, obviously something is wrong. If you cheat on your spouse, you are wrong. the reasoning behind it doesn't matter.



KateyCaine -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 9:58:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85

I think Kirata hit the nail on the head with that emote.

Let me put it this way. He is married, she does not know. Hence he is lying to her, hiding things from her and cheating on her. If he will do this to her, he WILL do this to you as well. That being said.... You are married as well. I assume by way you put your question, that your husband does not know what you are doing. So you have no right to say that you don't feel that what he is doing is right, considering that it is exactly the same thing that you are doing.

'Personally I can tolerate many things in life but people who cheat and hurt others, not so much. Just because we are kinky doesn't give us the right to be unfaithful to our obligations.'

Exactly.

'it makes me sad that you even have to ask. '

I wholeheartedly agree. Needing to ask...is rather disturbing...you're not a child, you should know better.

You know I take that back.....a child knows the difference between right and wrong. You know what you are doing is wrong and are looking for someone to validate it and say its ok.



Exactly, Rhodes85 - you and kirata have got it in one.

Being kinky or BDSM-oriented does NOT give ANYONE license to destroy others or play with anyone's emotions. No excuses, no equivocations.

From the tone of the original post, it sounds as though you have got blinkers on about the whole situation, worried about enabling this man, when you should be worrying about what you are doing to YOUR spouse, who loves and trusts you. If you care about him at all, you won't let him stay blind to the situation that is going on behind his back. What if the shoe was on the other foot?

I know this sounds very harsh, but i have been exactly where you are years ago, when i was in my twenties and stupid. i too had on rose-tinted glasses. You will never be His - he has a long-term permanent relationship - a marriage. Realistically, if the Master that you have been emailing wanted to be with you, he would actually be with you, instead of being still married. You possibly are just a fling to him. A M/s or D/s relationship is about long-term commitment, fidelity, complete trust, love, respect and emotional/spiritual bonds that are stronger than chains or rope or leather. Without these aspects, it is nothing.

k.




Rhodes85 -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 11:17:38 PM)

Thank you KateyCaine, those were exactly the words I was searching for. The OP needs to take a step back and think about her husbands feelings. I just don't understand how anyone could betray someone who loves them like that. I know what that feels like, so OP, I hope you realize what this whole situation is going to do to him if he finds out about it. Like Katey said, put the shoe on the other foot: How would you feel if it was him doing this to you? Like she said, if this person wanted to be with you he would be.

I think it would be best to stay away from this guy before alot of people end up getting hurt.



NormalOutside -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 11:20:22 PM)

OP, I've seen both sides of this, now. For me the betrayal was the main thing. The only part that I really felt guilty about was betraying her. And when it happened to me, the betrayal is ultimately the only thing that mattered.

In any case, it's really up to you to know if it's worth it or not.



ElectraGlide -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/20/2009 11:24:02 PM)

Cheating Spouses, two home wrecking poachers. Thats my defintion. There is no honor in that crap.



rockspider -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 2:58:13 AM)

No you a totally wrong. It takes two to make a good marriage work. But it only takes one to make it crappy. I am sorry, but i have seen to many of them down the road. Bitchy, whiny, never satisfied with anything women who don't give a shit about the husband. He is just around as the mealticket and if he treatens to leave he gets the message she will do anything to prevent him from seeing his kids. Also many of those husbands hangs around hoping wifey will revert to the sweet little one he married. They don't really realise she never existed, just an act to get somebody on the hook. The moment she got her hooks sunk in the real bitch crawls to the surface. I don't say it is every woman. But i have seen a fair amount in my time. Actually they easy to spot. They carry absolute no guild for the failure of the marriage. They have a custody court batle behind them and they always bitch over how little money the ex pays them.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Oh please. I'll be the first one to say that I made awful choices. But you coming in here saying that the other half of a broken marriage takes no blame in the situation is just ridiculous.


It takes two to make a crappy marriage crappy. But that does not give one of the spouse the right or justification to cheat on the other. I'm sorry that you're reading comprehension is that lacking.

And yes I will fully state without no perplexity that the other half of a broken marriage is not to blame for you going out and cheating on them. They did not force you to do anything of the sorts, they did not hold a freaking gun to your head, ordering you to pull down your pants and fuck your jumpoff. That is solely the cheaters choice and he takes full responsibility for that, regardless of how crappy the marriage was and/or is.





KateyCaine -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 3:27:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider

No you a totally wrong. It takes two to make a good marriage work. But it only takes one to make it crappy. I am sorry, but i have seen to many of them down the road. Bitchy, whiny, never satisfied with anything women who don't give a shit about the husband. He is just around as the mealticket and if he treatens to leave he gets the message she will do anything to prevent him from seeing his kids. Also many of those husbands hangs around hoping wifey will revert to the sweet little one he married. They don't really realise she never existed, just an act to get somebody on the hook. The moment she got her hooks sunk in the real bitch crawls to the surface. I don't say it is every woman. But i have seen a fair amount in my time. Actually they easy to spot. They carry absolute no guild for the failure of the marriage. They have a custody court batle behind them and they always bitch over how little money the ex pays them.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Viridana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Oh please. I'll be the first one to say that I made awful choices. But you coming in here saying that the other half of a broken marriage takes no blame in the situation is just ridiculous.


It takes two to make a crappy marriage crappy. But that does not give one of the spouse the right or justification to cheat on the other. I'm sorry that you're reading comprehension is that lacking.

And yes I will fully state without no perplexity that the other half of a broken marriage is not to blame for you going out and cheating on them. They did not force you to do anything of the sorts, they did not hold a freaking gun to your head, ordering you to pull down your pants and fuck your jumpoff. That is solely the cheaters choice and he takes full responsibility for that, regardless of how crappy the marriage was and/or is.





That's actually really sad that you feel that way, rockspider...I'm sorry that you have experienced the awful aspects of women and relationships (and relationships gone out the window). Not everyone is like that. Men can be assholes, so can women - assholey-ness (is that even a word?!) doesn't discriminate with gender. There are some wonderful loving beautiful men out there; and there are beautiful, unconditionally loving, selfless, compassionate women too. Just don't let yourself become bitter and jaded to that.

k.



Elizabeth666 -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 4:11:47 AM)

quote:

No you a totally wrong. It takes two to make a good marriage work. But it only takes one to make it crappy. I am sorry, but i have seen to many of them down the road. Bitchy, whiny, never satisfied with anything women who don't give a shit about the husband. He is just around as the mealticket and if he treatens to leave he gets the message she will do anything to prevent him from seeing his kids. Also many of those husbands hangs around hoping wifey will revert to the sweet little one he married. They don't really realise she never existed, just an act to get somebody on the hook. The moment she got her hooks sunk in the real bitch crawls to the surface. I don't say it is every woman. But i have seen a fair amount in my time. Actually they easy to spot. They carry absolute no guild for the failure of the marriage. They have a custody court batle behind them and they always bitch over how little money the ex pays them.


The only part I agree with is this: It takes two to make a good marriage work. But it only takes one to make it crappy.

That is very true. With the risk of sounding cheesy, marriage is a partnership that both parties need to work at if they want the marriage to be happy and work.

Now this is where I agree with KateyCaine: Not everyone is like that. Men can be assholes, so can women - assholey-ness (is that even a word?!) doesn't discriminate with gender.

I have met women who are bitches and do exactly what rockspider said (My ex boyfriend's e for example) She made his life and our relationship miserable. She wouldn't let him have his daughter if she knew I was going to be there, going so far as driving over and getting the child if she found out I was around (Note: They had been apart for 5 years before he and I met) She bad mouthed me to the child to the point that my ex couldn't even talk to her about me without her bursting into tears. The poor child was torn between Mom and Dad and I couldn't take it anymore and called it off after 3 years.

Anyway, my ex husband for example, fits into the asshole catagory. When we split I was working a job that didn't pay great and we agreed that he would take our daughter as he could provide better. He moved a half hour drive away and never limited my time with her. Then I met someone and that changed. The next thing I know, I have custody papers sent to me. I was floored, I couldn't believe it. He was asking for full custody with limited visits for me. I did what I could, but I had been a dancer during our marriage and he did his best to paint me in a bad light, which worked. I couldn't fight him, his family was behind him and they have money. I did not. They would have kept me tied up in court with lawyers until I was poor and homeless. Did I want to put my daughter through that? No. So, I signed. He had threatened that I wouldn't see her if I didn't and being quite young and naive, I believed him and signed the papers. Probably the hardest thing I ever had to do.

Fast forward 9 years. We're still apart but we live in the same city so I have access to my child. We got into an arguement a while back and I asked him to grant me a divorce. We're not ever getting back together, so why stay married? His answer, and I quote "Because you want it" So, to be spiteful and to be sure I can't take a relationship with anyone further than dating, he refuses to sign any papers. During our marriage he was controlling and mentaly abusive. After 5 years of it, I got out of the house, but still can't get out of the marriage.

Yes, there may be women that are bitches and just want to make their ex miserable, but men are just as bad. Don't judge all women because of the actions of some. Just like I don't judge all men because of my ex's actions.

*gets off soapbox* lol



SultryItalian -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 4:16:34 AM)

Cheaters are morons.



Elizabeth666 -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 4:24:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SultryItalian

Cheaters are morons.


Well said :)



DesFIP -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 5:27:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

That innocent third party is often times not quite so innocent in the demise of the marriage to the point of their spouse looking elsewhere. To say that a marriage ends purely because of just one half of that marriage is usually unrealistic. It takes two people to have a successful marriage and it also takes two people to have an unsuccessful marriage. Let's not put the blame all on the head of the cheater.


My ex would not go for a physical, would not go to therapy, would not go to couples counselling, would not believe me when I said I would not continue to leave like that - no sex, no involvement with the children, outbreaks of anger frightening all of us.

I stayed until my daughter's psychiatrist said she was stable enough for me to kick him out. But I don't consider it cheating when I told him ahead of time I would find someone else to meet my needs since he did not want to. The fact that he did not believe me is not my problem.



Lucienne -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 6:15:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elizabeth666

Fast forward 9 years. We're still apart but we live in the same city so I have access to my child. We got into an arguement a while back and I asked him to grant me a divorce. We're not ever getting back together, so why stay married? His answer, and I quote "Because you want it" So, to be spiteful and to be sure I can't take a relationship with anyone further than dating, he refuses to sign any papers. During our marriage he was controlling and mentaly abusive. After 5 years of it, I got out of the house, but still can't get out of the marriage.


Well, that's a shitty situation. I was going to recommend moving to a no-fault divorce state, but I see you're Canadian. I have no idea what the laws up there are. In your case, it sounds like your husband isn't the only asshole - the law is an asshole. People who aim to protect the "sanctity" of marriage by having laws making it difficult to divorce only end up enabling abusive situations such as the one you're in. I'm sorry you have to put up with this.



CTJess -> RE: Cheating spouses (11/21/2009 6:45:43 AM)

Although OP is conspicuously gone and probably did not have the best intent with this post, this is a GREAT thread.

"some people who cheat are simply good people who fuck up big time and later regret it" - Thank you!

It has been pointed out over and over in this thread that somewhere more than 1/2 of marriages in the US have a cheating spouse or cheating spouses. When someone choses sex with another human to fill a void, we make ignorant statements like "cheaters are morons". But when someone choses to work 15 hours a day to fill the same void, we say things like "the ungrateful bitch took his money and whined." A relationship that is so lost that spouses are eating, porn perving, working, traveling, cheating, etc. in order to fill a void that they find exists with each other is not something that a person "just choses" to walk away from. Years and years and years of emotions, events, people, etc. go into that relationship. A person doesn't just "decide" to deal with what is missing it happens slowly and insiduously and before they know it, they can't stop themselves from making that one last bad decision even though they know it is wrong.

So, for all of you that have such wonderful insight for this person about how they just "shouldn't" no matter what. Take a look at your life, what are you doing that you "shouldn't" - stop!....that's it - just stop - it's easy - you are strong and noble and righteous and good - stop...if not, you are moron and an idiot and weak and and and

Give me a break...Life is not that black and white.



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