RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it

RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 9:49:11 AM)
What basic information would entail telling me you have a slave, Mistress, ect?

AnimusRex -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 9:57:54 AM)
FR- I suppose one could say examples of wearing collars in public, or using terms like "Master" or "Mistress" are acceptable, and not so big a deal. But we need to accept that this lifestyle is still very taboo, and accept that you will get some varying reactions, from gentle amusement to outright hostility. We choose our own actions; we cannot choose other's reactions. There are some who feel it is important to do these things in public, and are willing to accept whatever reactions they get; but there are others, I think, for whom that is exactly the point. Some people enjoy being sexual outlaws, social transgressors. They get a thrill out of being boundary crossers, and would be disappointed if the world actully did embrace public sex and fetish wear. Our kink tends to be so low scale, that it really doesn't become an issue. Her subtle displays of submission to me in public are usually taken as nothing more than a traditional wife.

Lucienne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 9:58:35 AM)
Incidental reference to them by that title, I'd think. When dining out with my brother, one of us will normally make a point of saying "my brother/sister" to the server to avoid the nauseating experience of having the server treat us like we're on a date. Now that I think about it, incidental references indicating familial relations are pretty common when dining with my family members in public. I don't think we are pushing our family structure on strangers. But it's natural to identify as such. I don't begrudge kinky folks who have the same natural impulse.

tazzygirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 10:04:06 AM)
I suppose because i work in an upscale restaurant, it tends to be different. Maybe once a night i will hear something about a wife or husband. beyond that, its.. he... she.. we (most often we) will be having such and such. We dont care if you are brother and sister out on a date... lol... we just dont want to hear about it, its not our business.

CalifChick -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 10:13:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavekal Coming up with a precise definition would be difficult, but I think if we use the "reasonable person" standard, we know when we are being inappropriate. There is more latitude in a nightclub than there is in the grocery store. More freedom in an adults only situation as opposed to a place where kids can view what is going on. Certain activities might be a little different, but not overtly sexual. I believe most of us know when we have crossed that line and are just being jerks. [sm=applause.gif] [sm=applause.gif] [sm=applause.gif] [sm=applause.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: agirl I don't know one single woman, including myself, that breast fed in public as some kind of theatrical show. It's not doing it publically.....it's feeding your infant because that's how they GET fed, it's FAR less intrusive for the poor sensitive souls around, to quell a wailing infant's cry of hunger by popping your nipple in...peace reigns. In my experience, a babies head covers most of the boob anyway. Maybe some of those militant LLL nursing moms ([;)]) whip it out and wave it around with the intent to SHOCK AND OFFEND, but I have yet to meet anyone, or encounter anyone, that does so. We breastfeed to... feed the baby. Cali

Mercnbeth -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 11:10:32 AM)
quote: Where do you personally draw the line between "imposing your kink on unwilling bystanders" and simply "refusing to live a closeted life"? can we define "kink"? is displaying dominance or submission "imposing kink"? every time this slave lets someone go in line ahead of her, does that means she is imposing her submissive kink on unwilling bystanders or just being polite? or is it only "kink" if she perceives the unwilling bystander to be an attractive male Dom? quote: ...You can do what you want in your own home - in public you have to follow public laws and on other people's property you have to follow their rules.... not necessarily. even in your own home, on your own property, you still have to respect the local municipal ordinances/rules of conduct for your neighborhood. for instance, orgies can get pretty noisy and if they run late, you run the risk of having the police show up to let you know it isn't the correct neighborhood for orgies~ cause the neighbors are complaining.[;)]

LadyPact -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 11:13:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth not necessarily. even in your own home, on your own property, you still have to respect the local municipal ordinances/rules of conduct for your neighborhood. for instance, orgies can get pretty noisy and if they run late, you run the risk of having the police show up to let you know it isn't the correct neighborhood for orgies~ cause the neighbors are complaining.[;)] And it still gives Me a bit of a chuckle, every time I have reason to remember it. [:D]

allthatjaz -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 11:28:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl Breast-feeding is no different. It boils down to intent and consideration. There are women that wish to shock and offend and will whip out the tit anywhere. There are women that when the necessity arises, will either find a private or low traffic area or will discreetly cover up with a light blanket or outter clothing. One is considerate, the other is out to offend, make others uncomfortable or out for attention. I honestly can't think of a situation where a woman can not excuse herself to find a secluded space to tend to her child's needs. People manage to do just that when they have to change a diaper. What's the difference? Edited to correct a grammatical error. All this stuff about breast feeding in public I find really sad. Many moons ago it used to be the same in the UK but thank goodness attitudes have changed. Women in the UK do not feel the need to be discreet about breast feeding in public. Its the most natural thing in the world and if anyone was to step in and say something to a breast feeding mother they would probably get linched by the masses.

allthatjaz -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 11:37:42 AM)
I wouldn't be offended by a leather collar worn in public. Lets face it, most people wouldn't have a clue what it meant. When my lifestyle friend told me that she got her four male slaves to carry her, dressed to the nines, on a Sedan chair over London Bridge on a Saturday evening, I thought it was great. Her slaves were all topless but all were wearing trousers. You will see many strange things in the city of London and I am sure the tourists thought it was the start of some sort of carnival! When one of those slaves went to pick her up at the airport and waited (fully clothed) at the exit gate on his hands and knees with his head bowed, I had to agree with her that he had gone a step too far.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 12:18:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize I guess my question would be what is so integral to the relationship that we feel it is necessary to make it obvious in public? I believe that the positive and beautiful aspects of any relationship, D/s or not, can be continued and manifested in or out of one's own home. But I admit that I am a bit biased regarding more blatant activities like leading the submissive on a leash at the mall. I see those kind of things as a grandstand move and I'm not at all clear what the motivation would be other than to get a lot of negative attention. This is just our cultural habits speaking. If a couple kisses in public, do we wonder why they have to rub it in the faces of all the potentially single people around? It's just assumed that certain things are culturally 'natural', so we let those instances fall under the 'normal' category. However, if another person's action is a bit more socially awkward, we can point and question the motive because we are creatures of habit and such things are more likely to pique the attention of our radar of oddities. It's universally understood that the bias from which more extreme uglinesses grow is the predisposition to demonize those things which are foreign and weird to us and while outright hateful reactions based on such interpretations may be more socially rare than decades ago, it's still hard for the human animal to shake a certain myopic threshold of emotional pacifism.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 12:20:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly refusing to live a closeted life......wearing a collar in public imposing kink on unwilling bystanders.........attaching a leash to it. [img]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/bewildered.gif[/img]

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 12:23:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl In the above example, consider for a moment that a 6 year old happened to notice the behavior while their parent is browsing a rack of clothing. At some point it's likely that the 6 year old is going to ask mommy or daddy why that man is walking that lady with a leash. In that situation, the parent finds themselves forced into an extremely uncomfortable situation and on the spot to come up with an answer that will satisfy the curiosity of a 6 year old and not cause any distress at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'd never want to be in that position. How horrible! I can imagine some caucasian parents having the same fears when little Billy asks them why that white girl is kissing a black man. [image]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/image] If someone's intolerance and ignorance of the rest of humanity is so pervasive, perhaps they should consider a means by which to more easily live in isolation.

breatheasone -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 12:27:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl In the above example, consider for a moment that a 6 year old happened to notice the behavior while their parent is browsing a rack of clothing. At some point it's likely that the 6 year old is going to ask mommy or daddy why that man is walking that lady with a leash. In that situation, the parent finds themselves forced into an extremely uncomfortable situation and on the spot to come up with an answer that will satisfy the curiosity of a 6 year old and not cause any distress at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'd never want to be in that position. How horrible! I can imagine some caucasian parents having the same fears when little Billy asks them why that white girl is kissing a black man. [image]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/image] If someone's intolerance and ignorance of the rest of humanity is so pervasive, perhaps they should consider a means by which to more easily live in isolation. WTH?

NyDaddysGirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 1:29:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl In the above example, consider for a moment that a 6 year old happened to notice the behavior while their parent is browsing a rack of clothing. At some point it's likely that the 6 year old is going to ask mommy or daddy why that man is walking that lady with a leash. In that situation, the parent finds themselves forced into an extremely uncomfortable situation and on the spot to come up with an answer that will satisfy the curiosity of a 6 year old and not cause any distress at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'd never want to be in that position. How horrible! I can imagine some caucasian parents having the same fears when little Billy asks them why that white girl is kissing a black man. [image]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/image] If someone's intolerance and ignorance of the rest of humanity is so pervasive, perhaps they should consider a means by which to more easily live in isolation. I'd rather have that conversation, explaining that when two people love each other ... etc. and how skin color is as different as hair color... etc. than to have to be taken off guard and attempt explain the leash.

scattered -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 1:38:37 PM)
I do think there's a limit to the "it's not done for attention" reasoning. There is a line. You might get the urge to tie your sub up to the window display manikins in the Gap and flog her purely as an expression of how in love you are, but even though your motives might not be influenced by the public attention, it's still not appropriate to do. Generally, I would ask myself, "if the whole world were into BDSM, and it wasn't anything unusual, would this be an acceptable amount of PDA?" It helps me judge the situation on its own merits, independent of the "shock factor." Then I have to be realistic and think about the world I'm actually in, how much grief I feel up to getting that day, etc. It might be fine by the first standard, and therefore not something I would consider offensive, but something I still wouldn't do for practical reasons.

agirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 1:48:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl Breast-feeding is no different. It boils down to intent and consideration. There are women that wish to shock and offend and will whip out the tit anywhere. There are women that when the necessity arises, will either find a private or low traffic area or will discreetly cover up with a light blanket or outter clothing. One is considerate, the other is out to offend, make others uncomfortable or out for attention. I honestly can't think of a situation where a woman can not excuse herself to find a secluded space to tend to her child's needs. People manage to do just that when they have to change a diaper. What's the difference? Edited to correct a grammatical error. All this stuff about breast feeding in public I find really sad. Many moons ago it used to be the same in the UK but thank goodness attitudes have changed. Women in the UK do not feel the need to be discreet about breast feeding in public. Its the most natural thing in the world and if anyone was to step in and say something to a breast feeding mother they would probably get linched by the masses. I had been trying imagine a british women getting snotty glances from huffy people......lol What really astonishes me is people making ANY comparison to hanging your tits out, with performing a functional task to feed an infant. Altogether silly. agirl

Acer49 -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 1:52:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Where do you personally draw the line between "imposing your kink on unwilling bystanders" and simply "refusing to live a closeted life"? For me, the simplest distinction is whether the interaction with the third party is a part of the kink, or even if you're interaction with that third party is kink oriented. Flashing someone in a park needs a third person to work; telling your friends that if they come over your slave will be naked doesn't, because the slave would be naked anyway and they have a choice whether or not they want to visit your home. Wearing a collar in public is just a refusal to take off what you wear otherwise, whereas calling a saleswoman "Mistress" is inappropriate. I also think that it's considered an imposition if you do something at, say, a restaurant or shop, and the manager or owner has to ask you to leave because you refused to stop when asked. You can do what you want in your own home - in public you have to follow public laws and on other people's property you have to follow their rules. Thoughts? I will break you statement down as it applies to me Family- they know of my lifestyle and have seen my former in submission. My family love me and accept my life choices and I am free to act as I chose, this does not mean I am going to flog my sub in their presence, though I know my mom would not bat an eye if I did. Businesses- this is their livelyhood and I will respect their boundries as even if they have no objection, their customers might. Friends-The majority of friends that I had at that time were in the lifestyle, for others, they are forwarned ahead of time of what they may be exposed to. To this date, no one has never had an issue. again I do not need or desire someone to watch me, but I will not compromise who and what I am nor what I desire to do in my own home. Public- if I am in a public space I will do what I want, I will not do anything that would be considered illegal. If people have a problem, do not stare. I will grant others the same courtesy with their activities.

agirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 1:52:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl In the above example, consider for a moment that a 6 year old happened to notice the behavior while their parent is browsing a rack of clothing. At some point it's likely that the 6 year old is going to ask mommy or daddy why that man is walking that lady with a leash. In that situation, the parent finds themselves forced into an extremely uncomfortable situation and on the spot to come up with an answer that will satisfy the curiosity of a 6 year old and not cause any distress at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'd never want to be in that position. How horrible! I can imagine some caucasian parents having the same fears when little Billy asks them why that white girl is kissing a black man. [image]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/image] If someone's intolerance and ignorance of the rest of humanity is so pervasive, perhaps they should consider a means by which to more easily live in isolation. I'd rather have that conversation, explaining that when two people love each other ... etc. and how skin color is as different as hair color... etc. than to have to be taken off guard and attempt explain the leash. It seems to me to be part of the job of being a parent to explain uncomfortable things. If the worst thing I ever have to explain to my children is some gal on a leash , I'd consider myself bloody fortunate. agirl

Lucienne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 4:02:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero This is just our cultural habits speaking. If a couple kisses in public, do we wonder why they have to rub it in the faces of all the potentially single people around? It's like you are completely unaware of the fact that many people don't appreciate public displays of affection regardless of who the parties are that are making the display. This is an ongoing cultural debate. There's plenty of cultural push back of the most traditional heteronormative couple on earth making out in public - it's not just a kink thing. quote: It's just assumed that certain things are culturally 'natural', so we let those instances fall under the 'normal' category. However, if another person's action is a bit more socially awkward, we can point and question the motive because we are creatures of habit and such things are more likely to pique the attention of our radar of oddities. I'm trying really hard to not view your constant circling back to the attention whore comment as "the nihilist doth protest too much." quote: It's universally understood that the bias from which more extreme uglinesses grow is the predisposition to demonize those things which are foreign and weird to us and while outright hateful reactions based on such interpretations may be more socially rare than decades ago, it's still hard for the human animal to shake a certain myopic threshold of emotional pacifism. I'm torn between wondering exactly what you mean by that phrase and calling it out as fancy sounding nonsense. I'm not sure how to ask without it sounding sarcastic or insulting, but is english not your native tongue? Seriously. If you're not a native speaker then your style would come across differently than it does under the assumption that you are.

Lucienne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 4:08:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I suppose because i work in an upscale restaurant, it tends to be different. Lol. I doubt it. In my experience, which includes old-school Edith Wharton-era expectations about relations with staff, this isn't a class issue, it's a people issue. I'm not talking about what servers care about. I'm talking about declarations of affiliation that people regularly make in public.

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