RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (Full Version)

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MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:35:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
If you honestly think those in 'nillaville USA would see NO DIFFERENCE between referring to their significant other as "fiance" or "Master" to their neighbors, and cummunity, then you're fooling yourself, at best."


I guess I don't understand why you are so committed to defending the view point of sheltered/closed-minded/judgmental people.



I suspect one difference between us is I/we DON'T view those who'd rather not view our personal life displayed in public as "sheltered/close-minded/judgement people".




Hierodule -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:38:21 PM)

[img]http://www.crazydogtshirts.com/catalog/amish-gone-wild-photo.jpg[/img]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

You know who else imposes their lifestyle on others without their consent? The Amish. Fuck those buggy driving bastards. I didn't consent to being exposed to their technology shunning lifestyle!!! They should be forced to dress like everyone else and drive cars!



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:39:27 PM)

Oh, I have ZERO doubt in my mind that you of all people would be polite in your COMMUNICATION.  However, I absolutely do NOT think it polite in BEHAVIOR to engage in such a display around those who have not consented to view a dynamic (e.g., a girl being collared, leashed, and led around by another) such as this in public.  I find that rude and inconsiderate, as it's imposing your personal life on others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

Really? So I could behave exactly as any other well bred polite young lady in public but if I had a leash on I would automatically fail at polite communication?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

I'd have to disagree with you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

A person dressed as a clown as well as a girl on a leash can be polite, respectful and appropriate when communicating with strangers in public.





MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:41:17 PM)

Key difference, I think, is many would not view the Amish as being demeaned, where many would view a girl being led about on a leash as demeaning; and thus, offensive to many.  As you'd stated earlier... it's a case of "extremes".  While some may view an Amish woman as humbled, they'd likely view a sub/slave on a leash as degraded.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

[image]http://www.crazydogtshirts.com/catalog/amish-gone-wild-photo.jpg[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

You know who else imposes their lifestyle on others without their consent? The Amish. Fuck those buggy driving bastards. I didn't consent to being exposed to their technology shunning lifestyle!!! They should be forced to dress like everyone else and drive cars!




ranja -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:43:28 PM)

There are people who are self confident enough to carry it off... they can be Master and slave in public without upsetting people or making a fool of themselves... they have class and demand respect
There are also people playing at master and slave stuff who behave like total twits, raising eyebrows making themselves look like imbeciles and get chucked out of pubs and shops and get shouted at on the street...
The difference seems to be in ever so subtle details... some people rock and others don't... conviction i think



BKSir -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:47:20 PM)

I would have to disagree there.  Many would view the Amish and Mennonites and many other religions as being demeaning to their women-folk.  Treating them as second class citizens.  Even I do at times, but, just as my pet being on a leash is my choice and his, being of a certain religion is their choice as well.  And does it do me any harm when I see people of different religions and cultures together with the female having to walk just behind her husband or not speak until spoken to?  No.  No harm done to me at all.  In a lot of ways, she's on a leash too, you just can't see it.

Double standards galore, and that's one of them.



Hierodule -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:49:34 PM)

This I completely agree with. For example punishment displays should be done in private (home or club) for the same reason that spanking a child or arguing loudly with your spouse should be done private.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

There are people who are self confident enough to carry it off... they can be Master and slave in public without upsetting people or making a fool of themselves... they have class and demand respect
There are also people playing at master and slave stuff who behave like total twits, raising eyebrows making themselves look like imbeciles and get chucked out of pubs and shops and get shouted at on the street...
The difference seems to be in ever so subtle details... some people rock and others don't... conviction i think



Lucienne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 12:58:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA
If you honestly think those in 'nillaville USA would see NO DIFFERENCE between referring to their significant other as "fiance" or "Master" to their neighbors, and cummunity, then you're fooling yourself, at best."


I guess I don't understand why you are so committed to defending the view point of sheltered/closed-minded/judgmental people.



I suspect one difference between us is I/we DON'T view those who'd rather not view our personal life displayed in public as "sheltered/close-minded/judgement people".




I think there are few more obvious differences between us (I/we, what the fuck ever, are you composing these posts as a unit? Or tag teaming?). But pointing them out violates TOS.... so...

Can you agree that someone living in Kansas City, MO lives in a more culturally conservative community than someone living in LA?

From my perspective, the category of people you are defending is much smaller than you seem to think it is. In my community, referring to someone as Master in public may raise some eyebrows, but reasonable people aren't going to feel like someone else's personal dynamic has been shoved down their throats. In fact, making a scene about someone who referred to their partner as slave, or was walking him around on a leash, would be seen as crass and rude, whereas the underlying act would merely seem odd. We're midwesterners, not puritans. Reasonable people respond to unusual things with anything from curiosity, fear, amusement to politely ignoring. The reasonable people in my community do not get outraged by something different, or take at as a personal affront to community standards. The people that do have that response... tend to be either sheltered and/or closed-minded. Hell, even many of the overly judgmental people can still maintain a live and let live attitude.  People can recognize that "Master" and "fiance" are different without taking great offense.

From my experience, the offended attitude is not the most common one. It's not just that I think your reasoning is poor, I think it's based on a false premise



Hierodule -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 1:02:31 PM)

I went to the used book store with My Master wearing my steal collar (can't take it off sorry)We found some really cheap Gor novels and an amazing book on housekeeping. Master bought them for me. I'm such an attention whore!



Elisabella -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 1:44:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

If we want to continue to be seen as freaks and weirdos by the general public, then we should act like total asses, drawing attention to ourselves in inapproptiate ways.


[sm=agree.gif]




I think the opposite...I was raised to believe that the first sign you know you're doing something wrong is that you feel an overwhelming desire to hide it. I don't mean 'wrong' as immoral, but simply 'wrong' as in going against whatever sense of appropriateness you have...that's why binge eaters eat in the toilet (ew) or drug addicts start getting high alone instead of with their casual use friends, or whatnot, so I think that by hiding it, we're seeing *ourselves* as freaks and weirdos and that society as a whole (most of whom really don't have much of an opinion of BDSM beyond either "weird" or "fascinating") is going to accept our self label and think "They're afraid to admit they're into BDSM, ergo BDSM is something that should be hidden, ergo BDSM is wrong."

Again that's just my opinion, I can see how you'd think using those words is inappropriate and shouldn't be done, but since I don't have anything really new to say I'm going to attempt to let it go - I don't think you're a 'bigot' or 'intolerant' or anything like that, because if politeness is your aim I doubt you'd go up screaming in anyone's face that they're an awful person for having said slave or Master...it sucks having a minority opinion on the internet and I don't want to take advantage of that and just start snarking with no content.

XO



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 1:47:58 PM)

What determines inappropriate? Social break throughs in behavior of classes of people (homosexuals, ethic, etc.) only occur when the boundries are pushed. I am not speaking of going down the street with a leashed or coffled slave girl, I have commented on the OP, such as using the term "Master" openly or other small things that may hint to a "nilla" that something is going on. That is much different than rubbing the community's nose in something.

Also, if the general public want to view me as something I am not, should I conform just to be accepted and fit in? Many have pointed out that there is a balance between being yourself, and causing a disturbance, as well as many shades of grey between the two.


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

If we want to continue to be seen as freaks and weirdos by the general public, then we should act like total asses, drawing attention to ourselves in inapproptiate ways.



OrionTheWolf -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 1:56:32 PM)

What is kind of ironic is that my girl is from KC, and it was at a Bob Evans that a waittress overheard her call me Master. This waittress later asked my girl about it, and my girl told her that we had an alternative lifestyle relationship and that is how she refered to me. The waittress was very interested, and said things like "you two are such a great looking couple together", and "just looking at you I would have never known". The waittress gave my girl her email, and they exchanged emails for a while, and this waittress soon became involved in D/s and power exchange relationships herself.

All in that nillaville of the suburbs of KC. I think it was Lee Summit.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

Can you agree that someone living in Kansas City, MO lives in a more culturally conservative community than someone living in LA?




MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 2:25:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

If we want to continue to be seen as freaks and weirdos by the general public, then we should act like total asses, drawing attention to ourselves in inapproptiate ways.


[sm=agree.gif]




I think the opposite...



I know... and thanks for a wonderfully spirited debate. [:D]





HimNbabygirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 6:17:23 PM)

So, it's impolite if my Master leads me around on a leash, yet it's perfectly ok if a few teenagers who have no understanding of what it (running around leading each other by a leash) means?

Talk about double standards.

His baby girl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Oh, I have ZERO doubt in my mind that you of all people would be polite in your COMMUNICATION.  However, I absolutely do NOT think it polite in BEHAVIOR to engage in such a display around those who have not consented to view a dynamic (e.g., a girl being collared, leashed, and led around by another) such as this in public.  I find that rude and inconsiderate, as it's imposing your personal life on others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

Really? So I could behave exactly as any other well bred polite young lady in public but if I had a leash on I would automatically fail at polite communication?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

I'd have to disagree with you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hierodule

A person dressed as a clown as well as a girl on a leash can be polite, respectful and appropriate when communicating with strangers in public.






NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 6:48:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Key difference, I think, is many would not view the Amish as being demeaned, where many would view a girl being led about on a leash as demeaning; and thus, offensive to many.

Again, the same way a white woman would have been seen as "demeaned" to have a boyfriend of color 60 years ago.

If you support cultural short-sightedness in people so long as their socio-geographical mores are popular enough to make the short-sightedness commonplace, then you do it across the board.

Meaning (for example), female visitors to certain middle eastern countries should not "offend" the predominant cultural norms and should wear burqas, yes?



blmtrsne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 6:49:39 PM)

I do order my hubby around when in public but don't impose. My atitude is the one in charge without thinking about it, and my slave/husband acts normal on it as well. I had some eyebrows raised and sometimes even an ammused smile, but nothing more. The maximum i'll do is in a testaurant to order the food and drinks for my slave when I'm really noughty. I would shurely not expose my slave because other people might be offended and they didn't choose to be my complice.



NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/28/2009 7:01:25 PM)

The argument against the freedom of WIITWD expression, broken down:

Rule 1) "Kink" is naughty.
Rule 2) No one should ever have to publicly witness something naughty.
  a- The witness always gets to determine if what you've done is "naughty" (aka "kink").
Rule 3) If you think your "kink" is actually not "kink", refer to Rule 2a.



HimNbabygirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/29/2009 2:26:55 AM)

i think the safest conclusion to this discussion is probably if W/we all agree to disagree.

His baby girl



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