RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it

RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (Full Version)

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catize -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 4:14:39 PM)
quote: It's universally understood that the bias from which more extreme uglinesses grow is the predisposition to demonize those things which are foreign and weird to us and while outright hateful reactions based on such interpretations may be more socially rare than decades ago, it's still hard for the human animal to shake a certain myopic threshold of emotional pacifism. Generally, a lot of things would not register as 'radar oddities' (I like that phrase) because people are pretty self-absorbed. Yes, as I said before, I have my biases, but in the grand scheme of things, when at the mall or some other public place, I'd rather see a submissive person being led on a leash than to see someone carrying a gun. Sort of puts it in a better perspective for me.

BitaTruble -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 4:31:36 PM)
quote: Thoughts? I think common sense generally works well in most areas but I'm warped that way. :)

Hierodule -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 6:39:21 PM)
So some of you might remember that I mentioned referring to my Master as "my Master" to a waiter in the other thread on this topic. Well I got my come comeuppance, kind of: I just received my official, permanent, collar (a ring of steel, its pretty subtle, not a dog collar, no rings, not that that matters) Master took me out to dinner. I was wearing it. The waitress said "gasp! I like your necklace!" Then she turned to my Master and said "You should make it so it shocks her like one of those dog collars that don't let them leave the yard." I just smiled and said "Don't give him any ideas." This lady seemed to pay extra attention to our table in general, my Master specifically. At the end of our meal she came and said "How are you doing?" and then to Master "Wow, let me take that plate. I can tell by the way you looked at me you want the table cleared. You have very expressive eyes." !!!! WTF ??? I think she was out of line but I found it entertaining. It was as if she felt she had the right to flirt because she knew what the collar meant. And that we must be fine with it because we were obviously "kinky." Am I attempting to have my cake and eat it too since I feel like I have the right to call him my Master in public and yet don't think that this kind of obvious flirtation from a waitress is appropriate? I haven't changed my position that its not overtly sexual or harmful to call him "my Master" in public. But do I have to expect this kind of reaction from certain people and just roll with it?

Lucienne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 6:55:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Am I attempting to have my cake and eat it too since I feel like I have the right to call him my Master in public and yet don't think that this kind of obvious flirtation from a waitress is appropriate? All servers are all about the tip. Good servers can read their customers and the dynamic they desire. They feed that dynamic... to get the tip. I wouldn't worry about it, if I were you.

Hierodule -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 7:02:40 PM)
But the thing is it did the opposite. It put us off. And she did not get more than the usual tip. I would have tipped her less if it was up to me. Maybe its just a natural territorial thing on my part. If I was on a romantic dinner with a vanilla BF and she flirted that obviously I would be just as pissed.

NyDaddysGirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 7:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl In the above example, consider for a moment that a 6 year old happened to notice the behavior while their parent is browsing a rack of clothing. At some point it's likely that the 6 year old is going to ask mommy or daddy why that man is walking that lady with a leash. In that situation, the parent finds themselves forced into an extremely uncomfortable situation and on the spot to come up with an answer that will satisfy the curiosity of a 6 year old and not cause any distress at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'd never want to be in that position. How horrible! I can imagine some caucasian parents having the same fears when little Billy asks them why that white girl is kissing a black man. [image]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/image] If someone's intolerance and ignorance of the rest of humanity is so pervasive, perhaps they should consider a means by which to more easily live in isolation. I'd rather have that conversation, explaining that when two people love each other ... etc. and how skin color is as different as hair color... etc. than to have to be taken off guard and attempt explain the leash. It seems to me to be part of the job of being a parent to explain uncomfortable things. If the worst thing I ever have to explain to my children is some gal on a leash , I'd consider myself bloody fortunate. agirl If you're NOT involving others in your kink (as this thread is about), then that conversation would be a moot point.

Hierodule -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 7:17:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Where do you personally draw the line between "imposing your kink on unwilling bystanders" and simply "refusing to live a closeted life"? Wearing a collar in public is just a refusal to take off what you wear otherwise, whereas calling a saleswoman "Mistress" is inappropriate. I'll have my sub wear a collar in public, I'm under the impression that the general public is acclimated enough to that sort of thing that it isn't an issue. I am curious about your collar argument though; what would be the difference between it and the argument that being a nudist in public is just a refusal to dress differently than a nudist normally would? If you're on the city's property, you follow the city's laws. Nudity is against the law, a collar isn't. Ever been to Berkeley ? You can a get a permit from the city to be nude in public. And fuck if they don't parade down the street on a Sunday with their permits around their necks on lanyards like fishing licenses. Because you see, they don't have pockets...

Lucienne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 7:21:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule But the thing is it did the opposite. It put us off. And she did not get more than the usual tip. I would have tipped her less if it was up to me. Maybe its just a natural territorial thing on my part. If I was on a romantic dinner with a vanilla BF and she flirted that obviously I would be just as pissed. That would be an indication that she's either not a good server (reader of people), or she made a conscious decision to fuck with you (which I will own up to having done myself, sometimes the intangibles are worth more than a tip). Still.... I wouldn't worry about it from your perspective. People do what they need to do to survive at their jobs.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 7:48:39 PM)
quote: Ever been to Berkeley ? You can a get a permit from the city to be nude in public. And fuck if they don't parade down the street on a Sunday with their permits around their necks on lanyards like fishing licenses. Because you see, they don't have pockets... thanks for that info. really really LOVED California before, but now, even more!!!!! California Love

Hierodule -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 8:02:54 PM)
Oh wow I guess they changed the law... Its been a while since I hung out on Telegraph... http://www.progress.org/fold41.htm ETA: With summer approaching, some city officials feel the need to eliminate the threat of bares in Berkeley. To prevent the people of Berkeley from getting naked, the mayor, city attorney, and city manager will on June 9 propose a revision to the Berkeley anti- nudity law, Berkeley Municipal Code (BMC) Section 13.32 (Ordinance No. 6199-N.S.) that will, first, "provide that it may be charged as either a misdemeanor or an infraction in the discretion of the prosecutor." Secondly, the revision will "repeal BMC Section 13.32.020D creating an exemption for conduct to which it would be unconstitutional to apply the Ordinance."

Lucienne -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 8:11:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hierodule Oh wow I guess they changed the law... Its been a while since I hung out on Telegraph... http://www.progress.org/fold41.htm ETA: With summer approaching, some city officials feel the need to eliminate the threat of bares in Berkeley. To prevent the people of Berkeley from getting naked, the mayor, city attorney, and city manager will on June 9 propose a revision to the Berkeley anti- nudity law, Berkeley Municipal Code (BMC) Section 13.32 (Ordinance No. 6199-N.S.) that will, first, "provide that it may be charged as either a misdemeanor or an infraction in the discretion of the prosecutor." Secondly, the revision will "repeal BMC Section 13.32.020D creating an exemption for conduct to which it would be unconstitutional to apply the Ordinance." I have a friend who went to grad school at Berkeley. From her (very liberal) perspective, I got the impression that it is a very silly place. ETA: they have some lovely trees on campus. I love trees, so that counts for something with me.

NihilusZero -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/22/2009 8:38:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl If you're NOT involving others in your kink (as this thread is about), then that conversation would be a moot point. If we're concerned with efficiency, isolating the child in the house till at least 18 would make any potential discomfort due to curiosity and questions moot.

tazzygirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 2:12:59 AM)
~FR When did children become able to give consent?

RCdc -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 2:24:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR When did children become able to give consent? When they understand the difference between right and wrong and what they like and don't like. Whether adults give them the chance or rights to do so, is another matter entirely. the.dark.

LadyPact -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 3:05:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR When did children become able to give consent? When did children need to be kept ignorant from the fact that some people are different?

agirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 4:06:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: NyDaddysGirl In the above example, consider for a moment that a 6 year old happened to notice the behavior while their parent is browsing a rack of clothing. At some point it's likely that the 6 year old is going to ask mommy or daddy why that man is walking that lady with a leash. In that situation, the parent finds themselves forced into an extremely uncomfortable situation and on the spot to come up with an answer that will satisfy the curiosity of a 6 year old and not cause any distress at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'd never want to be in that position. How horrible! I can imagine some caucasian parents having the same fears when little Billy asks them why that white girl is kissing a black man. [image]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/image] If someone's intolerance and ignorance of the rest of humanity is so pervasive, perhaps they should consider a means by which to more easily live in isolation. I'd rather have that conversation, explaining that when two people love each other ... etc. and how skin color is as different as hair color... etc. than to have to be taken off guard and attempt explain the leash. It seems to me to be part of the job of being a parent to explain uncomfortable things. If the worst thing I ever have to explain to my children is some gal on a leash , I'd consider myself bloody fortunate. agirl If you're NOT involving others in your kink (as this thread is about), then that conversation would be a moot point. It's not involving others. It's people doing whatever it is they do. They see all sorts of things and it's my job to explain if they have any queries about things we come across. The world outside of our front door contains lots of things they're going to wonder about and ask about.....people spitting in the street, people yelling at each other, rude people, unkind people....inside our home we arrange life to suit US......outside of it we can't, and that's the world they live in. Other people aren't like us all the time, they do things we don't do and behave differently ......it's not that difficult to explain. agirl

tazzygirl -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 5:42:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR When did children become able to give consent? When they understand the difference between right and wrong and what they like and don't like. Whether adults give them the chance or rights to do so, is another matter entirely. the.dark. Then why have age restrictions? And who determines when they do understand the difference between right and wrong?

RCdc -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 6:04:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Then why have age restrictions? Because it's a conspiracy![;)] On a more serious note - I don't dig age restrictions. My son for example, went to buy L4D2 at the weekend. He cannot because he isn't 18(bar a few months). Yet he is more mature than most 20 year olds I know. Meh. quote: And who determines when they do understand the difference between right and wrong? I don't really know if getting into a debate with you on this issue would be productive tazzy because I have seen the way you think on this subject on other threads. I just know that a child knows what is right for them in the same way an adult does - sometimes thats cool and sometimes thats not - just like an adult. They just don't have the rights that an adult has to get that across and it comes down to 'parent knows best' - which again sometimes cool and sometimes is not. Both are human beings and people tend to forget that when they look at a child. the.dark.

breatheasone -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 2:50:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR When did children become able to give consent? When did children need to be kept ignorant from the fact that some people are different? LadyPact, you know i think alot of you and chip, but i have to say here that....When did that become anyones decision but the parents? When my kids were young i wouldn't have taken them anywhere i thought something age inappropriate to me as a parent would be taking place. In my wildest dreams i wouldn't feel like a mall or a restaurant, or a walk down the street, would be one of those places.

LadyPact -> RE: Involving others in your kink vs. Not feeling the need to hide it (11/23/2009 4:40:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ~FR When did children become able to give consent? When did children need to be kept ignorant from the fact that some people are different? LadyPact, you know i think alot of you and chip, but i have to say here that....When did that become anyones decision but the parents? When my kids were young i wouldn't have taken them anywhere i thought something age inappropriate to me as a parent would be taking place. In my wildest dreams i wouldn't feel like a mall or a restaurant, or a walk down the street, would be one of those places. If that's the case (which I actually believe it is) I hope you will not be offended that I will remind you that it's actually clip. There's no "h". Don't worry. It happens all of the time. For the rest, I won't correct you, as I do not know how you raised yours. What I'll do instead is ask you how you handled situations with them such as running into that gay male couple in the restaurant or what you did when you ran into that interracial couple while you were at the mall? These situations aren't any different than what is being discussed here. They absolutely are age appropriate if the little person asking the question has the the level of maturity to ask. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm actually very conservative on the issue. I can promise you that your little people (who I assume are grown now) have heard far more disturbing things from the vanilla public than clip calling Me "Mistress" or if I call him lil one. I'd say the same about the things they've seen that are a heck of a lot more shocking than My boy wearing his leather collar. Being a mother Myself, it is My opinion that My primary job from the time the little people were born until such time as they were ready to be a functioning adult in society, was My responsibility. That includes, but wasn't limited to, explaining things they saw in public, in movies, on tv, sex, alternative lifestyles, My belief system, and I can't tell you how many other things. It doesn't mean I was always happy about it, but it really did boil down to it being My job. I still consider it My job, even though they aren't all still in the nest. In My case, there is no leash down main street. That is specifically because I understand that not all parents view the responsibility in the same manner that I do. In such cases, I'm not especially sure it is the underage person's maturity level that I worry about. It's more My concern about the person who brought them into the world.

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