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Submission isn't a dance, a polarity, a gift (that's so much bull) - submission is a need a submissive has. Any sub who adds "dynamics" to her need is topping from the bottom, a.k.a. a manipulator. Simple rules work a lot better than shades of grey.

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ORIGINAL: antipode
Submission isn't a dance, a polarity, a gift (that's so much bull) - submission is a need a submissive has. Any sub who adds "dynamics" to her need is topping from the bottom, a.k.a. a manipulator. Simple rules work a lot better than shades of grey.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

"Roaring" isn't a display of dominance, neither is a profile label - dominant or submissive.

"Inspiration" From what to what? From a natural state to an act in response to another who may or may not also be "inspired" to act? Wow - that requires a lot of on going mutual inspiration.

It may sound as if beth puts herself out to everyone; but the reality is few have much beyond their roar. Sure beth "inspires" many - but loses them when they find out they didn't inspire her to take the lead, to help them decide what to do to her, to set limits to them. this slave doesn't have an otherwise dominant personality that submits under certain circumstances, and in her experience that is what the majority of those who self identify as dominant WANT when they seek "a submissive" and she isn't wired that way. she doesn't need to be beaten to submit to an act - she could just enjoy the beating and the act. Without that inspiration it turns out the dominance wasn't there.

beth says from my initial contact to her, one sentence stood out in what I wrote. No fancy prose, no poem, a question; "Are you submissive or do you just get off thinking about being submissive?" her answer was yes, but she was hoping that the dominant wasn't just getting off on the thought and would be dominant; no inspiration required.

There's a paddle for every ass and hand that wants to swing it. Mutual inspiration facilitates fun. I was never looking to inspire, but enjoy myself with many who said I did. I got burned when what I perceived was submission was in reality my inspiring them to believe that I'd get tired of "this BDSM, Master/slave nonsense"; once reality that I really did forced them to lose that inspiration, the relationship and the marriage it also inspired was over.

I couldn't imagine worrying that a day would come when I wasn't inspired or inspiring. The pressure would be too much.

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ORIGINAL: lally2
prompted by a cmail from a guy who said that submission can only come through being freely given i responded by agreeing but added that also submission needs to be drawn out of the submissive.

for it to be freely given it needs first to be inspired.

but which does come first.

of course there will always be those situations where two people meet and the dynamic is right there, palpable and strong. but for some theres a process that has to slowly unfurl.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
What some people seem to miss is that a sub or slave does not automatically lose all other preferences for a partner once exposed to their dominance. We are motivated to be with those we have chemistry and compatibility with. Perhaps, to some, that needs to only extend to D/s, but to others it actually involves traits not related to "dominance" at all...although, I could see how some can easily confused those traits as being what constitutes their perception of "dominance" in the partner they are fancied with.

• We are all pansexual, but only "inspired" to heterosexuality by partners of the opposite sex.
• We are all whores ready to have sex with whomever asks, but we are "inspired" to fidelity by monogamous partners.

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ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

But i have come across MANY Doms/Dommes who believe that ALL subs/slaves should submit to them simply because they are Doms/Dommes.

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ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

You've worded it differently than i typically do, but we are describing the same phenomenon.  It is that "chemistry and compatibility" that i am calling "inspiration".

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How doesn't it? What happens when or if whatever the condition that enables it, ends? The more physical, looks, weight, hair color, the more vulnerable; but inspirational dominance or submission based on sexual proclivities, or even personality risks being lost over time as well.
Whoever is setting the condition must be prepared to transition and develop another source of inspiration from the same person. Its my perspective that whoever qualifies whatever side of the flogger by a condition holds the dominance. Were it not the case, it wasn't a condition or inspiration in the first place.
A dominant who has a choice of accepting conditions is submitting to them.
A submissive who sets the parameters of their inspiration to submit is dominating the conditions determining her submission.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It bears noting that the following are two very distinct things:

1) "Inspiring" someone to want to stay with me as a partner because of who I am.
2) "Inspiring" someone's submission to me because of who I am.

The latter (as other points have made) means her submission is conditional, which qualifies as a non-submissive (adj.) submissive (noun). It means the person is only situationally submissive. The former means her selection is situational...which is normally the case for most every human. It means that while the sub's/slave's natural predisposition is to submission, s/he actually is still fully capable of selecting to whom it is given.

Consider the implication of "inspired submission" as it applies to other sexual issues:

• We are all pansexual, but only "inspired" to heterosexuality by partners of the opposite sex.
• We are all whores ready to have sex with whomever asks, but we are "inspired" to fidelity by monogamous partners.

Do either of those make sense?

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ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive
Just my 2 cents and this is only about this submissive's point of  view. For me the 'gift' of submissive is totally bogus. I do not comprehend it at all. It would be like telling my late husband, though we were vanilla, that i was his gift because i am his wife I do not give my submissive to another as a gift, first there is usually strings attach to gifts, since i know very few people who can give unconditionally....
Inspiration must come from me, not another imho and it is how i have lived my life.

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For clarification purposes; very few (if any) are all dominant all the time or all submissive all the time.

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Are you then saying that this negates their dominance or submission in their relationship with their chosen partner?

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are you equating “conditions” with “inspiration”? Because I am not.

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ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive

Deseret, I do understand what you are saying and what a lot of submissives feel about 'the gift of submission', but to me it is not a gift. If others want to see it that way, so be it. Makes them and their belief not less in my eyes, nor does it make me less in my eyes. My feelings about the 'gift' is not to take away from others who inspire from it. To me it is bogus, and will continue to be.

Edited for after thought: I am only speaking from my point of view, and maybe the majority of s-types need or choose to see their submissive as a gift. I have not fault with that, but i wanted to present another p.o. v from someone who doesn't believe that way.
blessings
wisdomtogive

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I equate "inspiration" as a "condition" because that's how many stipulate their submission or dominance.

"I don't submit to everyone, I have to be inspired to submit." "I'm naturally a dominant personality but under certain conditions I can, and have submitted" Is there a difference if there is only one "certain condition" and it is "inspiration"?

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ORIGINAL: Deseret

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ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive

Deseret, I do understand what you are saying and what a lot of submissives feel about 'the gift of submission', but to me it is not a gift. If others want to see it that way, so be it. Makes them and their belief not less in my eyes, nor does it make me less in my eyes. My feelings about the 'gift' is not to take away from others who inspire from it. To me it is bogus, and will continue to be.

Edited for after thought: I am only speaking from my point of view, and maybe the majority of s-types need or choose to see their submissive as a gift. I have not fault with that, but i wanted to present another p.o. v from someone who doesn't believe that way.
blessings
wisdomtogive

Absolutely wisdomtogive, my sentiments exactly.
That is one of the most interesting things to me in this lifestyle, and in this particular discussion.

I like that submission doesn't come in just one color or flavor--and I think it is good to read different points of view, helps me to think more about my own submission, and a fresh perspective can help me grow in this journey.

with affection
~bee

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At some point the act of submission is conditional. Even the most slavery of slaves at some point made the decision to submit to her Master

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For me, once the decision was made to submit, it stopped being conditional, except of course, if my Dominant ceases to be Dominant, which I don't stay up nights worrying about