quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

You asked me a very similar question on another thread and address this (see bottom of post). I will therefore permit myself to give you the same answer, slightly elaborated:

I can't speak for other women, but once I capture a man and lead him down this path, I absolutely don't want to let him go. I am looking for a long lasting relationship with someone who gets me and what it is that I need. I have had similar relationships in the past. They worked well while they lasted, however, other factors have lead to the demise of the relationships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Sadism is a subset of narcissism -- lack of empathy.

The greatest pain is denial of fulfillment / gratification. In the involuntary and nonconsensual dynamic of power, the narcissist revels in the dependency of the masochist and consequent worship of their power to deny. In the semi-voluntary dynamic, the narcissist revels in the codependency of the masochist who repeats a cycle of failure to "get it right."

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Often, I think people are so busy analyzing, dissecting, and scrutinizing the things we enjoy, that they forget the very common basics of why we participate in the first place. I find these debates very similar to the application of the old saying: I don't need to know how to build a watch to know how to tell time. It's sufficient to Me that the watch works, and I know what hour of the day it is.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

You asked me a very similar question on another thread and address this (see bottom of post). I will therefore permit myself to give you the same answer, slightly elaborated:

I can't speak for other women, but once I capture a man and lead him down this path, I absolutely don't want to let him go. I am looking for a long lasting relationship with someone who gets me and what it is that I need. I have had similar relationships in the past. They worked well while they lasted, however, other factors have lead to the demise of the relationships.

Having been ill, I may well have missed your answer. But what I don't see is how you can be happy once your desire to torture the unwilling, so to speak, can no longer be fulfilled. Can you explain the dichotomy between your two statements?

• Rochsub2009 explained how it feels from the submissive's perspective writing that "i have grown to crave the thing that i despise".
• To this, my response in part was "this conflict of desires doesn't go away so quickly, and it can be layered and played with, in which case, as long as we are creative, we never really get bored of the boy! We just love him more each time he does it."
  
• I think Akasha also once again touched on some important points in her response to you. She wrote: "As hedonsistic as it is, it can get *lonely*.  Deep affection and romance in the context of a long term relationship can easily outweigh the most authentic thrill of the hunt; but MORE important is that a man that really gets inside the femdom brain is able to keep it fresh and alive on a much deeper level because he "gets" her." You might also like to read the first time she responded to you as well because there is interesting info there.
• I also added here that it's the exact same thing as what happens when the sex gets mundane in a vanilla relationship and the thrill is gone. You have to spice it up. I guess that's a simplistic way of looking at things, but I think the struggle to deal with the syndrome of "the thrill is gone" applies to almost every relationship dynamic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I'm almost willing to assume that we are the only group with a special interest that feels the need to nit pick every little thing about wiitwd.  If we compared ourselves to say, skydivers, I think we'd find huge differences.  I'd even go so far as to say that some skydivers honestly aren't all that concerned with why they love their adrenaline rush.  Why their brains are different than those who would rather keep their feet on the ground.  Sure, they know the mechanics of their hobby, but I highly doubt they sit back and attempt to pick apart why one kind of jump is better than another.  It's exhilarating to them and they know that is what drives them. 

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ORIGINAL: lally2

.
i got 120 strokes of the crop once, in multiples of 20. by the end i was sobbing, wanting it to end and it was the struggle to stay there, endure and get through it that left me with the catharsis that makes me feel (whatever complicated emotion it is). and to know that my Master was proud of me. He still talks about it, though we're not together anymore, we're still in contact.

thuogh im not a masso in the true sense of the word i still feel that i need a partner who is sadistic. the need to submit and struggle with pain is a strong pull. i could not submit to pain play if i felt that the man inflicting it was not enjoying himself or that he was delivering it to me because he felt i needed it. he has to want to or it doesnt work. to me that is the 'pleasure' or satisfaction or whatever the hell it is that i get, knowing that he knows i am not enjoying the pain whilst he's loving every minute of my struggle and tears.

i have yet to work out why this is or what it is in me that has to have this in a relationship.

but yes, as a non masso, i am better matched to a sadist whose needs are to inflict pain, rather than a man who likes to play kinky at a much gentler level. i would guess that in time i would eventually do something henious in order to be beaten hard, simply to get that fix of struggling, not so good an option because of the crappy feeling afterwards. His pride in me is all part of it too.

edited to add: the dreading it is the horney part for me., the act of it isnt. i am yet to be turned on by pain at whatever level.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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SOURCE: Antoine de Saint-Exupery, from one of my favorite books ever, Le Petit Prince, translated to English (and invert the gender!)
"You're lovely, but you're empty," he went on. "One couldn't die for you. Of course an ordinary passerby would think my rose looked just like you. But my rose, all on her own, is more important than you altogether, since she's the one I've watered. Since she's the one I put under glass. Since she's the one I sheltered behind a screen. Since she's the one for whom I killed the caterpillars (except for two or three for butterflies). Since's she the one I listened to when she complained, or when she boasted, or even sometimes when she said nothing at all. Since she's my rose."

- LA

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ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I'm almost willing to assume that we are the only group with a special interest that feels the need to nit pick every little thing about wiitwd.  If we compared ourselves to say, skydivers, I think we'd find huge differences.  I'd even go so far as to say that some skydivers honestly aren't all that concerned with why they love their adrenaline rush.  Why their brains are different than those who would rather keep their feet on the ground.  Sure, they know the mechanics of their hobby, but I highly doubt they sit back and attempt to pick apart why one kind of jump is better than another.  It's exhilarating to them and they know that is what drives them. 

Lady Pact,
i understand Your perspective here.  It makes perfect sense.  However, if we did what You describe, what would W/we talk about on this board?  The place would go sadly silent.  :-(

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact



The question is a good one.  Perhaps play techniques, service within and in our surrounding communities, events, interpersonal relationships, instruction, educational opportunities, and who knows what else.

While a bit off topic from the original, the two discussion boards here on the site that see the least amount of traffic are the upcoming events and positive experience boards.  Considering how many real life opportunities that we have to discuss the things we actually do, in a sense, that can be somewhat disappointing.  How rare it is that we chose to share with each other a particularly well put together presentation in our local area or perhaps a new twist on play that an attendee had never thought of before?  Since there are many of us here that tend to agree that we are always learning new things, it's a bit ironic that we so rarely delve into those areas.



 

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

.....As a sadist and/or top (the same goes for pain as well as bondage), my "most delicious prey" is a man who does not like either, but endures it because he likes how it makes me feel.  This is often joe-vanilla-guy, with the potential to say "hey, can we stop with the S&M games?" so that's a bit dangerous - but I feel like I spent all of my late teens and early 20s trying to seduce men into craving, wanting, needing to surrender to me, despite them being scared, uncomfortable and vulnerable.  That conflict is awesome.

The second type of "good prey" that serves up a tasty treat for me is a man who has a love/hate relationship with bondage and pain or helplessness.  He has a healthy does of fear and uncertainty, but he is so drawn to it, he can't resist.  This is the "sweet spot" of self-identified submissives/bottoms for me, the ones that are bonafide, card-carrying kinky people but are not draining to me.  However, they have to be sure (and trained accordingly) to be in touch with those feelings of fear/vulnerability and SHOW those to me, and not focus on the "OH, GOODY!!!!" feelings they are also overwhelmed with.......

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ORIGINAL: Underumam

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

.
i got 120 strokes of the crop once, in multiples of 20. by the end i was sobbing, wanting it to end and it was the struggle to stay there, endure and get through it that left me with the catharsis that makes me feel (whatever complicated emotion it is). and to know that my Master was proud of me. He still talks about it, though we're not together anymore, we're still in contact.

thuogh im not a masso in the true sense of the word i still feel that i need a partner who is sadistic. the need to submit and struggle with pain is a strong pull. i could not submit to pain play if i felt that the man inflicting it was not enjoying himself or that he was delivering it to me because he felt i needed it. he has to want to or it doesnt work. to me that is the 'pleasure' or satisfaction or whatever the hell it is that i get, knowing that he knows i am not enjoying the pain whilst he's loving every minute of my struggle and tears.

i have yet to work out why this is or what it is in me that has to have this in a relationship.

but yes, as a non masso, i am better matched to a sadist whose needs are to inflict pain, rather than a man who likes to play kinky at a much gentler level. i would guess that in time i would eventually do something henious in order to be beaten hard, simply to get that fix of struggling, not so good an option because of the crappy feeling afterwards. His pride in me is all part of it too.

edited to add: the dreading it is the horney part for me., the act of it isnt. i am yet to be turned on by pain at whatever level.

Well stated lally2, it's the opportunity for struggle that has my interest peeked when it comes to pain. Primarily, this lifestyle and its various kinks are sexual in nature, yet being stripped naked before Her and feeling the pain that invokes struggle in me is something I have to to experience.

Question; once this has happened, did it awaken a craving in you for more? Did it become a regular need that could only be quelled by the same amount  of pain, or did your desire transfer back to more sensual expressions?

Thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I'm almost willing to assume that we are the only group with a special interest that feels the need to nit pick every little thing about wiitwd.  If we compared ourselves to say, skydivers, I think we'd find huge differences.  I'd even go so far as to say that some skydivers honestly aren't all that concerned with why they love their adrenaline rush.  Why their brains are different than those who would rather keep their feet on the ground.  Sure, they know the mechanics of their hobby, but I highly doubt they sit back and attempt to pick apart why one kind of jump is better than another.  It's exhilarating to them and they know that is what drives them. 

Lady Pact,
i understand Your perspective here.  It makes perfect sense.  However, if we did what You describe, what would W/we talk about on this board?  The place would go sadly silent.  :-(