RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction)

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RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/2/2009 2:29:59 PM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reform

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: HorrorGroupie
*sigh* see this is where I run into issues myself...I tend to enjoy pain (or begin to REAL quick). And what I run into is Sadist types who get bored with that and stop...they just stop because what they did didn't really hurt or bother me. So....I'm really bewildered, I mean REALLY am I supposed to NOT like it??

Of course a sadist within this sort of lifestyle wants you to enjoy it but they do want a reaction. No reaction to many is very boring indeed.

So should one fake reactions? I (usually) don't make a sound when I'm being beaten

No you shouldn't fake a reaction. So long as your with someone who is compatible with you and lets face it, there are some who don't like a reaction, then everyone is happy!

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(in reply to Reform)

Post #: 61

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/2/2009 3:10:38 PM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Oh and the sound of a submissive begging me for 'another', or even the first one, is erotic, sexual, sensual, and 'double plus FUN!' - for me.

It might be erotic if I could get past the visual of Doug Neidermeyer and the initiation scene in "Animal House".

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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 62

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/2/2009 3:46:36 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Oh and the sound of a submissive begging me for 'another', or even the first one, is erotic, sexual, sensual, and 'double plus FUN!' - for me.
It might be erotic if I could get past the visual of Doug Neidermeyer and the initiation scene in "Animal House".

There's a "paddle for every ass", but although the thought of giving Keven Bacon a swat with my fraternity paddle (I still have and use my PI KAPPA ALPHA brand - Those things can do serious damage to an ass!), isn't the first image that comes to my mind. A "please sir can I have another"

from beth generates that same Neidermeyer smirk

, along with the swat, from me!

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 63

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/2/2009 11:16:37 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
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My sadism has a cold and warm side. The warm side loves the willing partner, the cold side soares with the unwilling subject.

The sadism of my husband seems to be the same, unluckily for me he can not switch between the warm and cold. He loves me and therefore i will never experience his cold sadism, although i a have seen it at work with others and it turns me on tremendously.

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Post #: 64

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/3/2009 4:48:51 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkwindblues

My sadism has a cold and warm side. The warm side loves the willing partner, the cold side soares with the unwilling subject.

The sadism of my husband seems to be the same, unluckily for me he can not switch between the warm and cold. He loves me and therefore i will never experience his cold sadism, although i a have seen it at work with others and it turns me on tremendously.

That is interesting. I know another sadist who once confided in me that he could no longer be as sadistic to his wife after she gave birth to their son. I wonder what it is that happens to cause this, increased empathy?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 65

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/3/2009 12:37:45 PM

hardbodysub

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The following describes me almost perfectly.

quote:

my "most delicious prey" is a man who does not like either, but endures it because he likes how it makes me feel. ... craving, wanting, needing to surrender to me, despite them being scared, uncomfortable and vulnerable. That conflict is awesome.

The second type of "good prey" that serves up a tasty treat for me is a man who has a love/hate relationship with bondage and pain or helplessness. He has a healthy does of fear and uncertainty, but he is so drawn to it, he can't resist.

I don'l like pain, however I'm not only willing to endure it, but am actually excited by it because of how it makes her feel, and how it emphasizes her control over me. I don't dislike bondage so much if it's not painful, although it can make me nervous. The helplessness, which I hate in general, is a serious turn-on in this context, when she really enjoys having control of the situation.

Since that's how it works on me, I can definitely understand a woman who prefers dishing out pain to someone who doesn't really relish the pain itself. She's the flip side of the coin that I'm on. It wouldn't be so exciting to me if she only did things that I really enjoy; I wouldn't feel the helplessness and dominance in that.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 66

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/3/2009 7:53:43 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
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No, i do not think so. It has to do with the emotional distance for all fellow sadists i talked to. For some it is necessary to objectify the bottom, the nearer the person is or the longer the relationship continues the harder does it become. That is the type that i call cold sadism.

I can do both cold and warm and i can do it with the same person. The only cold branchers are in trouble, the more love, and now comes your empathy in play, the more important the person for them is. I know of very longstanding relationships that went to vanilla sex, because the sadist could not any longer be sadistic with the other. In my circle that only happend to men, i would be interested if it happened to a women although, maybe on here.

I had situations were my love was in his full sadisctic cold modus and we started, and due to my reaction he went deeper into the cold and dark heart of his sadism and all times, he came to an abrupt hold, masking it at our start (10 years ago) with having to go to the toilett, a need to drink and nowaday he switches to total tenderness. Because i was due to the chemicals all that times very flying, i crashed, but we understood after some time the mechanism. He says: The moment i realize, that the object i am torturing is my most beloved wife, all stops.

I have to live with it, because it is the way he is. But i have to admit i would like to went deeper in his cold and dark heart and he was well known for 20 years as a heavy and edge player, before he met me.

On the other hand, for my cold sadism i have although to distance the person, but i can distance somebody who i love dearly.

How is is for you, Lady Angelika, do you have although a cold and warm sadism or is it one?

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 67

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/4/2009 1:42:27 AM

MistressRouge

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From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
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As a sadist I enjoy masochists, for the freedom of My sadistic release.

However, I will not deny, the thought of an unwilling none-maso, is also quite exciting & attractive.

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(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 68

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/4/2009 3:52:39 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

How is is for you, Lady Angelika, do you have although a cold and warm sadism or is it one?

Good question. My motto has always been been "An iron hand in a velvet glove." I am most often warm and loving. That doesn't mean I'm not cruel. I've had boys tell me it's such a mind fuck to that I can look at them with such concern and say "oh no? did that hurt? poor thing... let me take out the sting", do so, then a few moments later, wink at them and whack them with the cane at the exact same spot to make them scream out. Is that cold? It definitely is mean!

I think the thing is that I have overall empathy for my partner in that I don't want him to have long term pain. But short term, I really want him to suffer for me.

Does that answer your question? I'm not sure if I have. I'm not sure if I can.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 69

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/4/2009 8:03:55 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
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Yes, i think i understand.

I would in my cold warm system classify you with a warm basic tone and cold high peaks.

After discussing the question, why i never met a woman who had the problem i described in my post before, Michael came with a very interesting idea.

He said, it could be a biological programming. For the male, first comes the offspring, then the female and then the own existence. Due to that, is somebody who is a " i have to care for" femal (even if she is most successful i her career) not something that can be any longer been brought in danger, even more the offspring.

What do you think about it, Lady Angelika?

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 70

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/4/2009 8:34:21 PM

LadyAngelika

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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkwindblues

Yes, i think i understand.

I would in my cold warm system classify you with a warm basic tone and cold high peaks.

Hmm... interesting. I get high peaks when it's cold out, yes! Ha ha! But seriously, I don't see it as 2 seperate moments. It's a duality that is intertwined for me.

quote:

After discussing the question, why i never met a woman who had the problem i described in my post before, Michael came with a very interesting idea.

He said, it could be a biological programming. For the male, first comes the offspring, then the female and then the own existence. Due to that, is somebody who is a " i have to care for" femal (even if she is most successful i her career) not something that can be any longer been brought in danger, even more the offspring.
What do you think about it, Lady Angelika?

I don't think it's gender-based. There are some very caring, loving dominant men out there and some cold, cruel women. I think women can become viciously sadistic. I just don't think it's in my nature to be vicious. Just wicked. I can become a little meaner if I use a role play, like the interrogator in P.O.W. play where it is understood that I'm going to get colder.

Oh but I have found once instance where I discovered a cold, cruel bitch withing... when I get bad customer service ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 71

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/7/2009 5:36:07 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
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From: Berlin, Germany
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LA,

i must have written totally unclear.

I do not meant
that there are no cruel women.
That would be funny in itself, living in a country where women choose to work in concentration camps and some of them were horribly known for their special sadistic behaviour.

The topic was the special situation of an ongoing relationship and why some sadistic dominant men, who were happily sming for years, suddenly with the developing of a very close loving relationship stop wielding their sadism or only a watered down version. And even more so after there are Ums.

Only that topic was meant in the theory of my M. and i do think that the theory is valid. Interesting would be what leads some men to behave like that and other can connect their love and sadism.

And for me it is back to cold and warm sadism. Maybe using your empathy idea. Cold would be more into ones self and warm would be more tuned into the other. I do not know.

Concerning my impression and using the cold/warm for you. Like for you, for me it is one moment, but like the spectral colours every moment is another picture.

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 72

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/8/2009 7:55:31 AM

DowagerMum

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/28/2009
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I am told that if one is a true Sadist, when a Masochist says, "Hurt me", one says, "No".

*wink*

(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 73

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/8/2009 5:38:32 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

*Winks back*

And there it opens.

The grand canyon of truism!

Calling all true masochists and sadists..

However and digressing

great picture Dowager Mum: Is it yours?

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

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Post #: 74

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/8/2009 5:43:01 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hawkwindblues

*Winks back*

And there it opens.

The grand canyon of truism!

Calling all true masochists and sadists..

However and digressing

great picture Dowager Mum: Is it yours?

Who wants to be *true* when you can be authentically *you* ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Hawkwindblues)

Post #: 75

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/8/2009 6:26:14 PM

Hawkwindblues

Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

Yes!

Being yourself is the most beautiful and the most dangerous way to live at the same time.

I had mostly no other chance in my life, because i seem to miss some normal layers, but still have my own layers to lift.

Being your ever changing self is one of my highest goals in life and a wonderful never stopping process.

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 76

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/9/2009 2:35:52 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

Being yourself is the most beautiful and the most dangerous way to live at the same time.

I love this. It really represents my feelings about how I have lived my life to date. And I wouldn't change it for anything in the world. Though I put a lot of stock in intellectual discoures and analysis, there is nothing opportunities to follow our true visceral urges!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 77

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/9/2009 7:33:18 AM

Aanakaris

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I'm a sadist and enjoy a willing participant who loves pain. One of the strongest pleasures to me is facial expression, watching that look of "Oh, my f-ing god that hurts so good" (if you've seen it you know what I am talking about) is one of my greatest pleasures. That and when your sub says Ouch than immediately positions herself for more, that is so very, very hot.

While the Dom in me appreciates a person who tolerates something I like simply because I like it, I would rather everyone involved was having a good time. Being tolerated is NOT a turn on to me.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 78

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/9/2009 9:39:19 AM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aanakaris

I'm a sadist and enjoy a willing participant who loves pain. One of the strongest pleasures to me is facial expression, watching that look of "Oh, my f-ing god that hurts so good" (if you've seen it you know what I am talking about) is one of my greatest pleasures. That and when your sub says Ouch than immediately positions herself for more, that is so very, very hot.

While the Dom in me appreciates a person who tolerates something I like simply because I like it, I would rather everyone involved was having a good time. Being tolerated is NOT a turn on to me.

Being "tolerated" is not a turn on for me either; being "endured" is a HUGE turn on. I don't want to torture or hurt a man who is just "putting up with it" - I want to torture a man who is willing to suffer because he finds that my pleasure is worth it. I want to torture a man willing to suffer for me because he's selfless, brave and humble. I want a man willing to let his ego and pride get trampled because he will endure being fully vulnerable in front of me. I find all of these things to be mind-blowingly sexy. Sexy in a way that when I see a man is enduring it for me, I get turned upside down with lust and a level of erotic and sensual pleasure that is unlike anything else in the world -- and so I want a man who is willing to say, "I'll take whatever you want to dish out, even if it hurts like hell and even if it totally degrades me, if it is going to make you feel that good. And yes, that scares me."**

Akasha

** and it's even more priceless if he adds, "I would NEVER let another human being treat me this way - but for you, I will...."
***and it's even MORE MORE priceless if part of it includes, "I don't know if I can go through with it, I don't know if I can handle it, but I am going to try because I want to make you happy more than I value my own comfort right now..."

!! phew !! I am in a mood :)

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(in reply to Aanakaris)

Post #: 79

RE: Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction) - 12/9/2009 10:04:39 PM

Andalusite

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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Hmm, I've dated a couple of men who were Tops or Dominant but were willing to bottom to me on occasion, because they enjoyed making me hot, even though they didn't enjoy the activity or get into a submissive headspace. It was a very different headspace and reaction from people who enjoy bottoming or submitting - very much enduring, like vanilla pain from a fight or a visit to the doctor's office, but mixed with pleasure and sexuality/sensuality. It felt really good that they trusted me not to go to far, and that they were willing do do something for me that they wouldn't normally consider, but we usually kept it to fairly light and infrequent. I mostly enjoy hurting people for the reactions I get from them, really stoic types just don't push my buttons much. Most masochists can still experience pain that is very difficult for them to endure - you just have to play around and see where they're sensitive.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 80

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