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MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premiums ... - 11/30/2009 9:17:43 PM

Brain

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I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it's taken decades for a decent healthcare bill to be passed so that the American people can receive decent medical care as do citizens of other western industrialized countries. But I have to say the lies spread to kill this healthcare bill are astonishing! I can't believe people are so greedy to protect their corporate profits and how they can be so heartless when their fellow citizens are dying just to improve the corporate or insurance company bottom line.

It is a disgrace and shameful that people are treated so inhumanely, pre-existing conditions and using rescission to remove a person from coverage just because your going to cost the insurance company too much.

I remember talking to someone who is Russian a few weeks ago and bringing him up to date about American health care and he was really shocked because he thought it was true that Americans have the best healthcare in the world; all I can say is, just because Republicans say it that doesn't make it true.

MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premiums will go down for Americans | Crooks and Liars

Republicans have been flogging the notion that if we have health care reform, your premiums will go up. They have no data to back up the claim, but they repeat it endlessly. Here's a new report that throws cold water on their heads. Will this new rep

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/mit-analsyst-supports-senate-health-car

Post #: 1

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 10:51:40 AM

FatDomDaddy

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Why do folks all over the world come to the US for health care?

Why are the greatest percentge of diagnostic medical testing and minor surgery centers in the world located around the US/Canada border?

Why should folks who have paid into the current health care system thier entire lives, middle class, lower middle too, and now in the October, November and December's of their lives, not reap the benefits of that investment?

Why should this new health care reform be paid for by American Citizens for the benefit of people who are not citizens and are not here legally?

Why isn't President Obama and Democrats Party leadership supporting running a fine tooth comb and taking extra ordinary time to make sure this bill is exact and thorough before the vote on it like the have been supporting with the troop increases in Afghanistan?

I am sure you will answer these queston with other questions and rants about the past and how every thing is Bush's fault but I thought I'd ask anyway.

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 12/1/2009 10:53:25 AM >

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 2

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 11:06:56 AM

Lucylastic

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quote:

Why do folks all over the world come to the US for health care?
Only those who can afford it, or have found some kind soul to back them financially, regular joes..just die

Why are the greatest percentge of diagnostic medical testing and minor surgery centers in the world located around the US/Canada border?
partly because the canadian healthcare system will pay for certain types of medical care in the US (for high risk pregnancies, 36 patients were sent to the US for medical care because of a shortage of beds in high risk environments here, altho they only pay the cost of healthcare, anything else is extra.Texas fdoenst have as many canadians going there because of the cost of travel etc etc)

Why should folk who have paid into the current health care system thier entire lives, middle class, lower middle too, and now in the October, November and December's of their lives, not reap the benefits of that investment?

What about people who have worked hard their entire lives at low wages and low benefits, should they not have preventative care, more than emergency care, be able to look after their families....or is it that the work you do that counts????
someone who cleans up shit in a nursing home, isnt as "worthy" as a stockbroker?

Why should this new health care reform be paid for by American Citizens for the benefit of people who are not citizens and are not here legally? you dont want illegal immigrants in your country? then put rules in place that cut it back to citizens and legals.

I am sure you will answer these queston with other questions and rants about the past and how every thing is Bush's fault but I thought I'd ask anyway. Oops no blame anywhere

Why isn't President Obama and Democrats Party leadership supporting running a fine tooth comb and taking extra ordinary time to make sure this bill is exact and thorough before the vote on it like the have been supporting with the troop increases in Afghanistan? Just a guess, but Im guessing that he could wave a magic wand and turn shit into gold and pee into oil and you would still bitch and whine. The impossible is possible but miracles take more time than others..stop being so damn impatient

I am sure you will answer these

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I guess I better go read the rest of the thread now....disclaimer that I just wanted to whine at FDD

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RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 11:26:09 AM

FatDomDaddy

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Lucy, I was talking to Brian, the OP but..Ok...

Why do regular Joes just die???
Why to the people who can afford to, choose the United States to get treatment?

I thought the Candian system was so great??? Why is there a sortage of anything? Why aren't things like MRI's and Ultra Sounds and such, not routine like they are here in the states? Why does it take months to get them done when in the United States they are often done in less than a day?

I was talking about truck drivers, factory workers, retail workers and yes... health care workers...all working class folks, especially Union members who have spent a lifetime of investment to be able to get the kind of heath care in their old age, that the Democrats reforms want to ration out.

We are trying... but when anyone tries even reasonable actions against the proliferation of of illegal imigration, the left shouts them down as racist, bigoted and zenophobic.

If "The impossible is possible but miracles take more time than others..stop being so damn impatient" as you wrote... why the rush to pass this thing? It will not even go into effect until 2013! So why not take the time now to get it right?

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 4

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 11:48:34 AM

mnottertail

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there are not many come from canada to get healthcare in the states. So you are eliding the argument in a way that is not proper. Those that do come from canada are generally dealing with distance issues is all.

Mayo Clinic and the few others are heavily endowed, besides taking your insurance, that AIN'T working.........

Ron

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Post #: 5

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 12:17:27 PM

Fellow

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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

Republicans have been flogging the notion that if we have health care reform, your premiums will go up. They have no data to back up the claim, but they repeat it endlessly. Here's a new report that throws cold water on their heads. Will this new rep

Simple 1st grade math shows if you add 40 million people (who do not have resources to pay) to the system preserving the incomes of the service providers the health care cost will go up. It is just a fact; somebody must pay. 20% or more Americans simply do not make the living wage. I am not saying the health care bill should not pass. I do not see any problem wealthy paying the health care cost for poor. This is as it works in the other industrial nations. The question is if America is really a nation or just a combination of individuals everyone doing whatever it takes to get a bigger piece of the pie?

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 6

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 1:38:18 PM

Lucylastic

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Replying to FDD
1)In america, they die because they cannot afford the treatment to save their lives...

2)Because we have a government that cuts bed and nursing and frontline jobs instead of middle management and other "non essential" staff its a typical "too many chiefs and not enough indians" situation that happens in the UK too.

3)Shortage of beds, shortage of frontline staff, lack of efficiency in bureaucracy, lack of proper funding, leads to shortage of quick testing times. I had an MRI a few weeks ago that took three weeks to get an appointment. and I can get an ultrasound the same day.Of course I live in a major city, so its different for rural people and other provinces have different rules etc.

4) Why do we have waits??? why do you have millions without anything at all beyond emergency care or free clinics. We only have 30 million citizens....all of them are covered, where as 1 and a half times our pop is without coverage in yours. Oh and we have a huge land mass to cover too,

5)No-one, least of all me, has ever said that our system is perfect, but.... in comparison, yours sucks balls if you dont have coverage.

6) Where is the rationing??is it in the same place as the death panels???altho come to mention it rationing and denial of treatments is popular with your insurance companies anyway, you just have to slip between the cracks be unlucky.

7) Part of the issue with immigration is that you have for years held your "doors" open, now you want to deny people who live on the same continent.. There's no wonder there are cries of racism. oh there are lots of liberal racists too, by the way. you cant always have it the way you want it straight away, without any issues, its not logical.

8) I believe...that the "pre existing condition" denial will be stopped. I could be wrong, I havent kept up on the different changes. But you have been faffing about for how many years with the problem of covering all citizens...too damn many, something needs to be done for those that need it.

This isnt a rant at you in person FDD altho I know it might seem like it, its not.... it is a generic you...meaning america as a unit. I know there are lots of good people on both sides of the political fence.

PS too many chiefs and not enough indians is in no way meant to be a racial slur, it is however a comment on my feelings about a lot of bureaucracy surrounding many aspects of life and work(public sector and private)

Ps to anyone who wants links and sources, I have them, Im just busy.

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 12/1/2009 1:42:23 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 2:30:05 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

It is a disgrace and shameful that people are treated so inhumanely, pre-existing conditions and using rescission to remove a person from coverage just because your going to cost the insurance company too much.

You apparently dont understand what insurance is.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 8

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 3:47:23 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I thought the Candian system was so great??? Why is there a sortage of anything? Why aren't things like MRI's and Ultra Sounds and such, not routine like they are here in the states? Why does it take months to get them done when in the United States they are often done in less than a day?

Last MRI i had done, i had to wait two weeks. Emergency goes first... patients in the hospitals come next.. depending on the diagnosis, or probable diagnosis, you basically have to wait. Mine was for my knee... two weeks. I dont consider that rationing... i consider it not enough time and man hours to do it any faster.

Now, to bring you up to speed on a few things.

Those who were laid off are about to lose their Cobra coverage. Lose it because the premiums are going up. Going up because the subsidy Obama gave them only lasted 9 months, and that was up today, Dec 1st.

I have no idea how many people were laid off... how many are still unemployed... added to the 30 million who had no insurance to begin with... or how many had to take part time jobs with no benefits.

I can simply say, though... its alot of people suddenly without insurance.

Now, pay careful attention....

ITS NOT ALL ILLEGALS! Other than for emergencies, neither bill, House or Senate, includes paying for illegals to get health care... only emergency care.

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(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 9

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 7:20:07 PM

Brain

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The Canadian system is great. Nobody said it was perfect. A lot of the shortages are caused by the United States health care system. Many Canadian nurses and doctors have gone to the United States just to make more money and pay less taxes; they're really only in it for the money.

What happens is these healthcare professionals benefit from spending less money to become a doctor or nurse in Canada because tuition is cheaper and they have a better system for student loans in Canada but after they graduate they just want to pay their loans off or any costs of education back as soon as possible and make money.

The survey I posted showed 89% of Canadians like the healthcare they are getting in Canada. And if the United States adopted the Canadian model for healthcare is no doubt in my mind Americans would be similarly satisfied. There's not much difference between Canadians and Americans as far as culture goes.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 10

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 7:31:13 PM

Brain

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I understand healthcare insurance is not the same as automobile insurance or business insurance or insuring your house or other things; I don't think you appreciate this fact.

It's not acceptable anymore for people to get health care insurance through their employer. It's difficult for businesses to compete with foreign countries if they have the added burden of these healthcare expenses. It's also not acceptable for people to lose their jobs and then have no healthcare. It's not acceptable because the United States is the wealthiest country in the world and spends a ridiculous amount of money on military expenditures. If that much money can be spent on the military then it's more than fair to reallocate dollars to healthcare - more butter and less guns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

It is a disgrace and shameful that people are treated so inhumanely, pre-existing conditions and using rescission to remove a person from coverage just because your going to cost the insurance company too much.

You apparently dont understand what insurance is.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 11

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 8:47:49 PM

FatDomDaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The Canadian system is great. Nobody said it was perfect. A lot of the shortages are caused by the United States health care system. Many Canadian nurses and doctors have gone to the United States just to make more money and pay less taxes; they're really only in it for the money.

WOW... Just wow... it's The United States' fault that the Canada Health Care Plan has shortages, long waits and doesn't pay doctors and nurses what they are worth.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 12

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 9:16:15 PM

cadenas

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Why do folks all over the world come to the US for health care?

Actually, MILLIONAIRES from all over the world come. And that's simply because shortages in the USA are resolved through cash - whoever pays the most gets to the top of the list.

And while you are at it: why do many Southern Californians travel to Tijuana for routine health care? It's one of the main industries in Mexican border towns.

Why do many Americans travel to China, Thailand or various other places for major surgery that is unavailable in the USA for a reasonable cost?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Why are the greatest percentge of diagnostic medical testing and minor surgery centers in the world located around the US/Canada border?

Maybe because the greatest number of affluent people are located between Maine and Philadelphia?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Why should folks who have paid into the current health care system thier entire lives, middle class, lower middle too, and now in the October, November and December's of their lives, not reap the benefits of that investment?

Exactly. Why should HMOs be allowed to raise their premiums or cancel their policies when they get older or sicker?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Why should this new health care reform be paid for by American Citizens for the benefit of people who are not citizens and are not here legally?

Get your facts straight. First, illegal immigrants have been excluded by all the bills to begin with. And even if they hadn't - they account for a minuscule number compared with the approximately 100 million under- or uninsured Americans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Why isn't President Obama and Democrats Party leadership supporting running a fine tooth comb and taking extra ordinary time to make sure this bill is exact and thorough before the vote on it like the have been supporting with the troop increases in Afghanistan?

They aren't? What has been going on for the last couple of months then, where all the various options have been discussed and analyzed over and over?

And, for that matter, we have had a drawn-out debate about health care for 40 years, and nothing got done with all the debating. It's time to finally DO something.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 13

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 9:20:56 PM

cadenas

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
It is a disgrace and shameful that people are treated so inhumanely, pre-existing conditions and using rescission to remove a person from coverage just because your going to cost the insurance company too much.

You apparently dont understand what insurance is.

Actually, he understands insurance just fine, as far as I can tell.

He is just illustrating why for-profit insurance is fundamentally the wrong tool for delivering high-quality health care.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)

Post #: 14

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 9:46:34 PM

Brain

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Sorry, that's just bull. Other countries, Canada, Japan, Germany, Britain and the list goes on and on and on, cover everybody and do it cheaper

Click on Watch The Full Program Online

Frontline sick around the world PBS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Republicans have been flogging the notion that if we have health care reform, your premiums will go up. They have no data to back up the claim, but they repeat it endlessly. Here's a new report that throws cold water on their heads. Will this new rep

Simple 1st grade math shows if you add 40 million people (who do not have resources to pay) to the system preserving the incomes of the service providers the health care cost will go up. It is just a fact; somebody must pay. 20% or more Americans simply do not make the living wage. I am not saying the health care bill should not pass. I do not see any problem wealthy paying the health care cost for poor. This is as it works in the other industrial nations. The question is if America is really a nation or just a combination of individuals everyone doing whatever it takes to get a bigger piece of the pie?

(in reply to Fellow)

Post #: 15

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 9:49:24 PM

Brain

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They get paid what they're worth they just don't get paid ridiculous Alex Rodriguez money.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 16

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 10:32:42 PM

FatDomDaddy

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What kind of answer is that?

A-Rod money?

A-Rod gets paid A-Rod money because that is what the market value is for his skill.

Doctors and nurses deserve to be paid what their market value as well.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 17

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 10:49:04 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

A-Rod gets paid A-Rod money because that is what the market value is for his skill.

Doctors and nurses deserve to be paid what their market value as well.

An interesting comment on the state of our society and the "greatness" of capitalism.

We pay people who work to save lives a tiny fraction of the "market value" reward we give someone for his skill at entertaining us.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 18

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 10:59:58 PM

zenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

A-Rod gets paid A-Rod money because that is what the market value is for his skill.

Doctors and nurses deserve to be paid what their market value as well.

An interesting comment on the state of our society and the "greatness" of capitalism.

We pay people who work to save lives a tiny fraction of the "market value" reward we give someone for his skill at entertaining us.

Isn't it though? If you think about it it makes sense. One saves our life. The other distracts us from our life.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 19

RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/1/2009 11:32:46 PM

Brain

Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
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Healthcare in the new economy doesn't belong as a private-sector good. It's a public sector good just like the army or the police force. No way that soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan is being paid market value unless they work for Blackwater. Why don't you privatize the entire Iraq and Afghanistan wars and watch the cost jump from $1 trillion to $10 trillion.

What's the market value to you or to the person in California of the firemen who stopped your house from burning down? Are you paying firemen what they are worth? What's the market value of a policeman who stops a criminal from blowing your brains out?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

What kind of answer is that?

A-Rod money?

A-Rod gets paid A-Rod money because that is what the market value is for his skill.

Doctors and nurses deserve to be paid what their market value as well.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 20

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