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RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 4:04:55 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Then why hasn't it been done before now, by the free market????
its only taken how long??????



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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 4:08:34 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		There are polls and 'studies' to support both sides of any argument. This whole push for Insurance, is nothing but a ploy by the Industry to require every American to buy Health Insurance, just like they've already gotten Auto Insurance pushed through. "Its for the kids" makes a nice slogan, or "every American ought to have the right to decent health coverage" are just catch phrases for what's actually going to transpire. During the campaign, Obama already knew how much Americans would get fined if they didn't buy into the Mandatory Insurance program he promised to push for. Look into what that number is.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 4:09:25 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Then why hasn't it been done before now, by the free market????
its only taken how long??????




It hasnt been done because of government interference. It hasnt been a free market, in case you havent noticed.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 4:11:25 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Then why hasn't it been done before now, by the free market????
its only taken how long??????




It hasnt been done because of government interference. It hasnt been a free market, in case you havent noticed.



...that's your answer for every time the private sector doesn't get things right. At what point does rapacious greed and contempt for greater society ever inform the actions of the private sector?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 4:14:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Then why hasn't it been done before now, by the free market????
its only taken how long??????




It hasnt been done because of government interference. It hasnt been a free market, in case you havent noticed.



...that's your answer for every time the private sector doesn't get things right. At what point does rapacious greed and contempt for greater society ever inform the actions of the private sector?


"greed" is not antithetical to the good of society as a whole. The pursuit of personal gain (in one form or another) is behind every great innovation in history.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 4:38:05 PM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
But it fails for health care, because society's goal (making health care affordable for everyone)

There is only one way to do that. Rationing. The only issue is do you want the government to do the rationing, or do you want the market to do the rationing.


We've tried letting the market doing the rationing for the last couple decades - that's what got us into the mess in the first place.

Except its not "a mess". It is functioning perfectly well for the vast majority of people and only minor changes are needed to remedy it for those who are currently under-served involuntarily.

And here I thought you were in the United States of America...

It's functioning perfectly well for those who are healthy enough not to need their insurance. I suppose the healthy people do constitute a vast majority...

What, pray, "minor changes" do you propose to make high-quality health care available for the third of the US population that has no or insufficient health insurance because they can't afford it?


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 4:51:58 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Gawd, I hope he doesn't support "global warming" too!

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 5:06:28 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		As per usual Im laughing too hard to be able to take his responses seriously
Wilbur, wipe your chin, you spilt some bullshit.
My own fault, I shouldnt have asked you...
It wont happen again.
SNORTSSSSSSSSSS




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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/3/2009 5:06:46 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

high-quality health care available for the third of the US population that has no or insufficient health insurance


Last numbers I've seen reported are 42 Million and that's costing according to this source $2.5 Trillion. If 1/3 or 100 Million of the 304 Million US citizens didn't have coverage that would mean a price tag of at least $5 Trillion. All to insure "affordable", the end of pre-existing exclusions, and including catastrophic coverage?

And nowhere in any versions of the Bill I've read is "high-quality" referenced. I don't think even this Congress or President is claiming that as a goal. At best it will be as good as Medicare; which has often been pointed to in the ongoing debate in Washington, as full of fraud, and mismanagement. However, this time the government will do it right! RIGHT!

BTW it was interesting to note on the source I found that, as opposed to a previous reference saying doctors were in favor of the Bill, at least this group of Doctors have determined it to be counter productive. Maybe its just all the Doctors fraudulently billing Medicare that can't wait for a new gravy train line to open up for them?

California Medical Association, the states' largest doctors group, is the latest organization to jump ship from the $2.5 trillion Senate health care reform bill currently under debate in Washington. They cite, "it (health care reform) would increase local health care costs and restrict access of care for the elderly and low-income patients."

Going on to also cite growing 'grass roots' opposition: The polls tell the tale of an unpopular health care package. Rasmussen Polls show the margin widening for those who do not favor this legislation � 36 percent favor what Washington is offering, while 59 percent do not want this bill.

(in reply to cadenas)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 4:11:23 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

high-quality health care available for the third of the US population that has no or insufficient health insurance

Last numbers I've seen reported are 42 Million and that's costing according to this source $2.5 Trillion. If 1/3 or 100 Million of the 304 Million US citizens didn't have coverage that would mean a price tag of at least $5 Trillion. All to insure "affordable", the end of pre-existing exclusions, and including catastrophic coverage?


Another approximately 60 million are underinsured - have policies that aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
And nowhere in any versions of the Bill I've read is "high-quality" referenced. I don't think even this Congress or President is claiming that as a goal. At best it will be as good as Medicare


I would consider Medicare high-quality health care. At least no Medicare recipient has to worry about recission in the middle of a Cancer treatment. The only area where Medicare is really inferior is where private insurances are allowed to meddle: Part D.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 4:34:38 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
I would consider Medicare high-quality health care. At least no Medicare recipient has to worry about recission in the middle of a Cancer treatment. The only area where Medicare is really inferior is where private insurances are allowed to meddle: Part D.


I'm curious.  How is Part D inferior?  As I recall, Medicare didn't cover prescriptions drugs prior to Part D.  I understand that Part D is administered by private insurance, but most Part D plans have little or no premiums and recipients pay co-pays just like anyone else with prescription insurance.  How is this inferior to having no prescription insurance at all?

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 8:41:20 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
I would consider Medicare high-quality health care. At least no Medicare recipient has to worry about recission in the middle of a Cancer treatment. The only area where Medicare is really inferior is where private insurances are allowed to meddle: Part D.


I'm curious.  How is Part D inferior?  As I recall, Medicare didn't cover prescriptions drugs prior to Part D.  I understand that Part D is administered by private insurance, but most Part D plans have little or no premiums and recipients pay co-pays just like anyone else with prescription insurance.  How is this inferior to having no prescription insurance at all?


Medicare Part D has been extremely successful and the only government health program to ever come in at lower that projected costs.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 8:46:12 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		so, government healthcare and private insurance can co exist, and flourish..........partnering instead of lobbying and caviling..........

wow, this is a 180 degree turn around for you wilbur, you are allowed to take me off of block now, I am so proud of you. Long live the partnership between government and the market, you socialist bastard!!!!!!!!

Ron

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/4/2009 9:30:24 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 12:49:40 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

high-quality health care available for the third of the US population that has no or insufficient health insurance


Last numbers I've seen reported are 42 Million and that's costing according to this source $2.5 Trillion. If 1/3 or 100 Million of the 304 Million US citizens didn't have coverage that would mean a price tag of at least $5 Trillion. All to insure "affordable", the end of pre-existing exclusions, and including catastrophic coverage?

And nowhere in any versions of the Bill I've read is "high-quality" referenced. I don't think even this Congress or President is claiming that as a goal. At best it will be as good as Medicare; which has often been pointed to in the ongoing debate in Washington, as full of fraud, and mismanagement. However, this time the government will do it right! RIGHT!

BTW it was interesting to note on the source I found that, as opposed to a previous reference saying doctors were in favor of the Bill, at least this group of Doctors have determined it to be counter productive. Maybe its just all the Doctors fraudulently billing Medicare that can't wait for a new gravy train line to open up for them?

California Medical Association, the states' largest doctors group, is the latest organization to jump ship from the $2.5 trillion Senate health care reform bill currently under debate in Washington. They cite, "it (health care reform) would increase local health care costs and restrict access of care for the elderly and low-income patients."

Going on to also cite growing 'grass roots' opposition: The polls tell the tale of an unpopular health care package. Rasmussen Polls show the margin widening for those who do not favor this legislation � 36 percent favor what Washington is offering, while 59 percent do not want this bill.



The CMA pulled their support .... all over money.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 12:54:52 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

The CMA pulled their support .... all over money.

What support, or non-support, comes from any source that isn't "all over money"?

This is ALL about money - redistributing it, or getting value for campaign contributions. Any, if any are realized, benefits to come are purely incidental and come at a cost of higher deficits, in and of itself detrimental to private business beyond the impact of this Bill.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 1:18:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And thats why health care for profit should never have been allowed.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 1:48:40 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Anytime someone "supports" something we should all be suspect of it.
If something is good enough to stand on it's own it really doesn't need anyone's "support" does it?
So, the congress will also be included in this bill along with all the rest of us, right?


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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 1:53:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And thats why health care for profit should never have been allowed.



Yup, Social Security would be in a lot better shape, because life expectancy would still be 67.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 1:58:26 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nope, it is intragovernmental borrowing that got social security by the balls. I've been paying DOUBLE into social security since '83 (as have a couple other folks) to have it overfunded into the future, but it is being robbed to liberate 25 million Iraquis and countless ex-Russians, according to experts like Sanity.

Notice that none of you armchair financial wizards posted on apolitical political oldies BTW, didn't work for partisan bickering.

Ron

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: MIT analyst supports Senate Health care plan: Premi... - 12/4/2009 2:05:39 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Again, when it comes to you I'm reminded of my mother who said, ' you can knock on a deaf mans' door all you want, he won't answer it.' I think you need to read this book too:

Denialism: How Irrational Thinking Hinders Scientific Progress, Harms the Planet, and Threatens Our Lives (Hardcover)

http://www.amazon.com/Denialism-Irrational-Thinking-Scientific-Threatens/dp/1594202303

oh and by the way, if you're not doing anything tonight you can watch John Kerry on Charlie Rose on Bloomberg TV, they're talking about Afghanistan and Pakistan.

From Publishers Weekly
Although denialists, according to Specter, come from both ends of the political spectrum, they have one important trait in common: their willingness to replace the rigorous and open-minded skepticism of science with the inflexible certainty of ideological commitment. Specter analyzes the consequences of this inflexibility and draws some startling and uncomfortable conclusions for the health of both individuals and society.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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