RE: Why don't male subs go to munches?

RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (Full Version)

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littlesarbonn -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 4:07:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeachMystress I've been attending munches now for about 18 months. The first munch I attended was a FemDom oriented one. It had two male subs who showed up regularly.The rest came and went, with few of them being repeat visitors. The current munch I attend has one regular male sub attendee- and he is collared/married to me. We've had a few other male subs show up once or twice, but not return. (We are a very friendly munch group and everyone is talked to and made to feel welcome, so that is not the reason.) We have female subs galore. We have a healthy number of Dom and Domme and a couple of Switches. Why is there this lack of male subs? Is this true at other munches? Do male subs not have the desire to know others in the lifestyle as just friends? Are male subs not as serious about BDSM as others? What causes this? What's your opinion? In my area, I attended two munches before deciding it just wasn't for me. Both times, I was one of the only male subs there, and I was made to feel very, very uncomfortable by those that were already there. There were male doms that actually treated me somewhat like I was wasting their space, female subs that distanced me from conversations, and the female dommes were constantly talking around me, leaving me feeling that they were not interested in male subs in the first place. I'm usually not that shy, and in a comfortable group, I do a lot of talking, but I really felt like I was an outsider there. It was like I wandered to the cool people table and everyone was staring at me wondering what I was doing there. Since then, I've pretty much just opted out of the bdsm community near me because it's not very welcoming. I contacted one woman in my area a few years back and she made some kind of off hand comments in an email to me that she remembered me at one of the munches and wasn't all that impressed. I figured that was a special achievement for me because she was at neither of the two munches I attended.

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 4:14:00 PM)
I was contacted by a male who wanted to go to amunch with me so he could get in no play or nothing just company, his words and once I mentiond that while I would be glad to acompany him he didn't need a woman to get in, this is a social in restarant, not a play party and poof I never heard from him again. And day before yesterday I was asked if people at the munch were going to be clothed, by a male. And that right there just demonstrates to me that most men are only hoping the munches will be kinky. about 50 percent out of 100 who might have come won't once they find out it's not a kinky thing.

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 4:33:18 PM)
I've had that talked around experince before. The very first munch I went to I was at this table and I started to ask this guy a question and right in the middle of my statement he turned his back to me and started talking to someone behind him. I was like so do you.... and he didn't even like say excuse me or nothing. And then the woman who told me to come to the munch if I wanted to meet her and get to know someone in the group, she didn't even hardly say word one to me after I said hi I am Chris you must be....... Also later that same lady turned out to be very nasty spreading false info about me around a tea group I was on, taking it apon herself to tell lies about me and my family. Plus I find munchesvery clicky a lot of people know one another from before and very quickly pair off.

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 5:06:23 PM)
quote: 1) You women can possibly relate, I don't like getting hit on by guys. It seems a sub guy shows at a munch and a majority of those there right away think he gay. Male doms can be quite pesky. Why would anyone assume automatically that you are gay? I've been going to munches for years, and they are usually het-oriented. If anything, people will assume that you are straight. quote: 2) All the women I have met, on the few occasions, are subs and collared. Well I'm not looking for a sub gal. Dommes are, by all accounts, on the rare side. You haven't been to many, by your own admission. If there isn't a local femdom oriented munch, you might want to ope up a discussion on your local munch lists about getting one started. quote: 3) The only dom gals are pro and sometimes pushing the hard sell. Well, I'm looking for a partner not a cash arrangement. So was there no Dommes at these few munches you were attending - or were they pros? While some pros go to munches, most are more of the lifestyle persuasion, in my experience. quote: 4) After the usual polite greetings, I have often got the "Oh your a sub." then ingored. Or you're just here to play around. Sometimes with a new group of people, you have to make an effort to engage others in conversation. quote: 5) For myself, particularly, I have quite the assertive personality. If not take charge, Alpha male type. So I find myself getting "Your not a sub. you're really a dom." Then atleast one or two woman will ask me to spank them. Well I can't do that hun, it's not me. I don't think women, in general, take too well to rejection. Assertive-but-respectful-and-polite is a fabulous trait in a sub. Assertive-in-a-rude-way is not. quote: Will I ever go to a munch this year? Probably not. Went twice last year. A couple of times the year before. Mich

pollux -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 5:43:05 PM)
I haven't been to a munch here in town yet. I've tried to attend the past 3, but each time have had a work or other social engagement get in the way. For me, it's mostly been bad luck with the timing. When I do finally go, I don't think I'm going to go by myself. I have some friends who are female subs here in town and I've talked to them about going together. Not as a "date", but just so that we have someone to talk to if one or the other feels awkward or starts to get frozen out by the others.

onceburned -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 6:21:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth who now has to admit out loud where other people hear; "I'm a sub." Whoops typo - "i'm a sub." For some, that's the first time they've heard the words out loud that have been rattling in their head for years. To a guy, brought up with a society stereotype male image in his head, that's about as "naked" as he can get. Contrast this with a club. I think you'll see many more unattached sub males. Why? Again, the costume. Putting on a collar, or as we saw last time at Lair, walking around naked wearing a cock harness and a flashing light banner sign saying "i'm here to serve"; doesn't require saying out loud; "i'm a sub."? I think that is a very good point on a couple levels. First, there is the idea that at a club "in costume" the male sub has a mask for his ego to hide behind - a mask that is not available at a munch. But at another level, when "in costume" a male sub has a role to play that he is comfortable with. He knows what to do, or at least he thinks so. He knows how to be submissive. But at a munch, the the male sub doesn't have a role model to follow. He has to be himself, and many have only a sketchy idea of how being submissive integrates with his whole person. He doesn't know what "to do". So that adds another layer of uncertainty and discomfort. I think this is reflected, to some degree in participation in these forums. Considering the people who are regular participants here, the ratio of Domme:male sub is quite favorable. Why more male subs don't become regular forum participants is a bit perplexing, but I think it is in part because they have trouble integrating their BDSM identity with their sense of self. They don't know what to do here. I agree with the observations that a great many male subs are motivated primarily by horniness. But that would be true of a great many male doms too, I suspect. Its in the nature of the beast.

AAkasha -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 6:26:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: onceburned quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth who now has to admit out loud where other people hear; "I'm a sub." Whoops typo - "i'm a sub." For some, that's the first time they've heard the words out loud that have been rattling in their head for years. To a guy, brought up with a society stereotype male image in his head, that's about as "naked" as he can get. Contrast this with a club. I think you'll see many more unattached sub males. Why? Again, the costume. Putting on a collar, or as we saw last time at Lair, walking around naked wearing a cock harness and a flashing light banner sign saying "i'm here to serve"; doesn't require saying out loud; "i'm a sub."? I think that is a very good point on a couple levels. First, there is the idea that at a club "in costume" the male sub has a mask for his ego to hide behind - a mask that is not available at a munch. But at another level, when "in costume" a male sub has a role to play that he is comfortable with. He knows what to do, or at least he thinks so. He knows how to be submissive. But at a munch, the the male sub doesn't have a role model to follow. He has to be himself, and many have only a sketchy idea of how being submissive integrates with his whole person. He doesn't know what "to do". So that adds another layer of uncertainty and discomfort. I think this is reflected, to some degree in participation in these forums. Considering the people who are regular participants here, the ratio of Domme:male sub is quite favorable. Why more male subs don't become regular forum participants is a bit perplexing, but I think it is in part because they have trouble integrating their BDSM identity with their sense of self. They don't know what to do here. I agree with the observations that a great many male subs are motivated primarily by horniness. But that would be true of a great many male doms too, I suspect. Its in the nature of the beast. For many male subs the entire concept of submission is wrapped in the concept that they don't have to or are not expected to "do" anything. Just be available and submissive. Anything that requires being proactive, assertive or aggressive doesn't compute. Or, it's simply safer to be behind the computer and explore the idea of submission as a passive observer or in fantasy, just waiting for the femdom to drop out of the sky and abduct him and give him no choice. Akasha

Lordandmaster -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 6:45:46 PM)
Maybe they just want to make the dommes fight over them. All I'm ever hearing from that side of the fence is how badly the numbers are skewed against male subs. Maybe they're just trying to turn the tables a little. Hey, and I'd root for them too. I wouldn't mind seeing them give the dommes a run for their money for a change.

thetammyjo -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 7:34:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pollux I haven't been to a munch here in town yet. I've tried to attend the past 3, but each time have had a work or other social engagement get in the way. For me, it's mostly been bad luck with the timing. When I do finally go, I don't think I'm going to go by myself. I have some friends who are female subs here in town and I've talked to them about going together. Not as a "date", but just so that we have someone to talk to if one or the other feels awkward or starts to get frozen out by the others. I think this is a very wise step for anyone regardless of sex, gender, or scene role. Don't go alone so you can't be alone once you are there. But that won't work for everyone.... not everyone knows someone in the community all ready. In that case, work on the basic etiquette of being in social groups, don't expect to find play partners or life partners, be yourself, and enjoy the food.

artglfr -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 8:21:04 PM)
Male subs that I talk to don't enjoy munches . Male Doms seem to be in the Power positions and a male sub that is seeking a Fem Domme is ignored or often made to feel like they are good for setting up and breaking down equipment, paying for stuff and then can get out of the way so the "Men" who have been hanging around being "Domly" in their circle "supervising" the work but not helping, can play. Poly relationships are another and many males are wanting to serve a Mistress NOT a Mistress and a Husband and a boyfriend or two or three and a girlfriend etc. It will be very unpopular to mention and unpolitically correct but also male subs appear to rank very very low on the totem pole...Female subs, Female switches, Female lesbian subs and switches, gay male subs and switches appear to rank much higher and are more in demand. Hetero male subs are treated almost as "Vanilla" as in not really being in the Lifestyle but only looking for a quick thrill and sex and this is so NOT true .

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 8:47:06 PM)
Umm there is no play at munches. At least not the ones here. So I don't know what you're talking about when you say they don't go to munches because the doms wait for them to do all the work while the doms play. ORIGINAL: artglfr Male subs that I talk to don't enjoy munches . Male Doms seem to be in the Power positions and a male sub that is seeking a Fem Domme is ignored or often made to feel like they are good for setting up and breaking down equipment, paying for stuff and then can get out of the way so the "Men" who have been hanging around being "Domly" in their circle "supervising" the work but not helping, can play. [/quote]

IronBear -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 9:01:38 PM)
Must be a local thing this apparent bias against or non attendence of male subs. As far as I know we have male subs attending all the time..

Misstoyou -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 9:09:17 PM)
My sub, who has to be very assertive in his job, is personally shy. He did go to a munch once, and alone, but actually that was because I made him do so. I wanted him to see who else was around, before I would accept his offer of submission to me. He met some nice submissive women friends...[:D]

Aimtoplease101 -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/15/2006 9:27:16 PM)
As a male sub who has attended several munches, I have a couple of observations. First, there is some anxiety when you first start attending such events because of the concern of being "outed" in the city in which you live. Society still largely expects men to be dominant, and women to be submissive. Many, if not most, of the male subs I know are quite assertive and successful in the non-bdsm part of their life. This contrast creates some tension. Second, many dom men, knowingly or not, do create a weird vibe for the sub men at such events. It may just be an unconcious male dynamic. Many male subs are submissive to women, but very competitive/ assertive, even dare I say dominant, with other men. Finding a femdom/ male sub group solves a lot of this. But sometimes that easier said then done. Regards, ATP

thetammyjo -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/16/2006 5:50:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: artglfr Male subs that I talk to don't enjoy munches . Male Doms seem to be in the Power positions and a male sub that is seeking a Fem Domme is ignored or often made to feel like they are good for setting up and breaking down equipment, paying for stuff and then can get out of the way so the "Men" who have been hanging around being "Domly" in their circle "supervising" the work but not helping, can play. Poly relationships are another and many males are wanting to serve a Mistress NOT a Mistress and a Husband and a boyfriend or two or three and a girlfriend etc. It will be very unpopular to mention and unpolitically correct but also male subs appear to rank very very low on the totem pole...Female subs, Female switches, Female lesbian subs and switches, gay male subs and switches appear to rank much higher and are more in demand. Hetero male subs are treated almost as "Vanilla" as in not really being in the Lifestyle but only looking for a quick thrill and sex and this is so NOT true . You must go to interesting munches that need set up and tearing down and have play at them..... At munches I've been at the worse that could happen would be to be ignored and the food is horrible. The host's job is, in my not very humble opinion on this issue, to pick a place that has variety at a reasonable or cheap cost; she/he should also greet each new person. After that it really is up to the individual to get involved in conversations. If this is difficult there might be two factors I can think of. One is the group dynamics -- if its been around for a while there will be friends there who treat the munch as a friendly dinner and it will take time and repeated effort to break into those groups. The other is the newcomer's personality, attitude, and personal hygiene; if you are looking for a partner folks will figure that out and you may be limited, if you act or smell bad then you will be ignored. I'll say it again -- go to make new friends and enjoy the food. I'll add be realistic and realize this will take repeated munch visits. If you still feel left out or ignore examine yourself first and foremost then look at the group -- maybe it isn't the right match for you. Find another one. I think there are like a dozen in Indiana now!

MysticalPhoenix -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/16/2006 5:52:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion Plus I find munchesvery clicky a lot of people know one another from before and very quickly pair off. We've been having some issues at our local munch with the "clickyness" factor. We've got a number of poly people, and they tend to travel in packs with their partners, their subs, etc. And, they tend to do things within their poly group that they don't do with the rest of the munch bunch. So, we get whining about clicques. It's silly and childish to start pointing fingers and talking about "clicks". Although it's nice that everyone mix and mingle at the munches, there is no rule, anywhere, that says if one person, or a group of people, host a party of any type or go somewhere, that they have to invite everyone on the munch mailing list. This is not elementary school, we are allowed to choose our friends and associates. We don't see many unattached male subs at our munches. So much so, that when I brought my newly collared boy to one of the munches while he was visiting, one of the FemDoms swooped in and asked him directly about his 'orientation' within minutes of our arrival. I just smiled at her, hooked my finger under his collar and said, "he's mine." There are a number of female and male dominants looking-if anyone who happens to be the Kalamazoo area is reading this-male subs are always welcome. Phoenix

tasha_tart -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/16/2006 7:59:46 AM)
I can't really offer any explanations for this, but I have noticed it myself over the last couple of years or so. Male subs are usually in the low single digits, even at a munch of fifty-plus. As an aside, I can be almost totally certain there won't be great number of fellow (sister?) CDs there either. Even with my poor social skills, carefully nurtured over the years, I've never felt unwelcome at any munch I've been to. The only males I've not gotten on with didn't seem to get on with anyone else either (m or f, D or s.) Anyway...no great insight; just my observations. Tasha

tabooless -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/16/2006 9:01:02 AM)
They don’t? I didn’t know that. I’m glad to hear that actually. I figured it would be the exact opposite and just be full of sub men so I was never really too interested in attending any. Great!!! I’m going to the next one. With a ratio like that, I like those odds. [:D]

JohnWarren -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/16/2006 9:35:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tabooless They don’t? I didn’t know that. I’m glad to hear that actually. I figured it would be the exact opposite and just be full of sub men so I was never really too interested in attending any. Great!!! I’m going to the next one. With a ratio like that, I like those odds. [:D] Now, that's thinking! Go for it!

MysticalPhoenix -> RE: Why don't male subs go to munches? (3/16/2006 10:15:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tabooless They don’t? I didn’t know that. I’m glad to hear that actually. I figured it would be the exact opposite and just be full of sub men so I was never really too interested in attending any. Great!!! I’m going to the next one. With a ratio like that, I like those odds. [:D] Maybe that's the explanation. All the male subs think they'll be so lost in the crowd of other male subs that they don't go, and we end up with no male subs. So guys, get out and meet people. Dominant females don't come down from the sky and abduct you-those are aliens-although if you are into anal probes, you might enjoy the alien abduction just as much :) Phoenix

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