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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:01:43 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		As a society, I believe in justice and am willing to weigh the rights of criminals, to strive to create a society where people are not so poor that stealing becomes necessary to live.

However, you put my family at risk and I will beat you to death with the scales of justice.

As an individual, I have to assume you are a serial killer because that is the assumption that reduces the risk to my loved ones the most.  If I take a chance that you are a troubled youth who only  broke into my house because your parents don't pay enough attention to you and I am wrong and you are instead a serial killer, my mercy gets my family raped and killed.

I cannot and will not take that chance.  Don't want to get shot and killed?  Don't break into people's houses!



< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 12/8/2009 2:02:33 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:01:48 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Unlike you the op understands where I was going and I have at his request agreed not to comment further...he wants this thread to die...why not honor his wishes and move on? This is the last I will post on the subject.

Butch

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:03:22 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

His "junk" was his family.
No it wasn't. he went and hunted the guy down in the basement storage room. His family wasn't in any danger at the time he opened fire, nor was it in any imminent danger. The only person in danger was himself and he put himself in that position.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:05:22 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Unlike you the op understands where I was going and I have at his request agreed not to comment further...he wants this thread to die...why not honor his wishes and move on? This is the last I will post on the subject.

Butch

i understood where you were going, and i didn't like it (still don't) and disagreed with you.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:15:51 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Breatheasone were you under the impression some of us missed that?
Arpig I wouldn't bother...,this thread and this  very scenario is all the validation needed by the gun crowd.The only point of contention allowed here is over the failure to kill.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:26:37 PM   
BossyShoeBitch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

However, you put my family at risk and I will beat you to death with the scales of justice.




Just thought that needed repeating.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:30:40 PM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

His "junk" was his family.
No it wasn't. he went and hunted the guy down in the basement storage room.
WTF?? a man BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
His family wasn't in any danger at the time he opened fire, nor was it in any imminent danger.
And you know that how exactly?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
The only person in danger was himself and he put himself in that position.
Again, how is it you KNOW his family wasn't in danger? And how exactly did he put himself in danger? i was under the impression the criminal did that by BREAKING IN TO THE MANS HOUSE ARMED.



quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Arpig I wouldn't bother...,this thread and this  very scenario is all the validation needed by the gun crowd.The only point of contention allowed here is over the failure to kill.

And this is the biggest deflective, cop out, i've heard in a LONG time LMFAO


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:37:55 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Why,if you were going to quote me did you find it necessary to clip the one line directed at you?
It sounds like you are getting some sort of quasi-sexual kick here Breatheasone...I have no need to cop out to anything....my feelings on gun control are well known....and none of them would have impacted Orions right to have a gun in his home.Though I wonder whether or not the burglers gun was legally in his posession.Seems none of you celebrating Orions marksmanship care a whit that the same society that armed Orion also armed the kid!


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:45:55 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

WTF?? a man BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE.
True enough, and according to the OP he loaded his gun and went stealthily in search of the guy...ergo he hunted him down.
quote:

And you know that how exactly?
From the OP, he told us just where in the layout of his house he was and where the bad guy was, and nowhere does he mention his family being anywhere near the basement storage room. I am willing to assume that the OP gave us truthful information. Working on that assumption one can legitimately assume nobody was in any imminent danger when he opened fire except for himself.
quote:

Again, how is it you KNOW his family wasn't in danger? And how exactly did he put himself in danger? i was under the impression the criminal did that by BREAKING IN TO THE MANS HOUSE ARMED.
Again, because the OP said so. And how did he put himself in danger...simple, he went looking for the guy, therefore he put himself in danger. If he had loaded his gun and stayed where he was and called the police from his bedroom then he would not have been in danger, but he chose to go looking for the guy.

There simply was no reason why the shooting was required, it was the OP's actions that made it necessary for somebody to get shot.
quote:


ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Arpig I wouldn't bother...,this thread and this  very scenario is all the validation needed by the gun crowd.The only point of contention allowed here is over the failure to kill.

And this is the biggest deflective, cop out, i've heard in a LONG time LMFAO
I agree with you on this, while I do realise my opinions are highly unlikely to sway anybody, that is no reason not to voice them. It is a cop-out to say I will be quiet because my words will fall on deaf ears, one never knows who is reading and what effect one's words might have. If even one person decided to be more responsible and less gung-ho about gun use then I will have accomplished far more than I expected.




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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:51:38 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

No it wasn't. he went and hunted the guy down in the basement storage room.

Which was right next to his bedroom, and down the hall from his child's room. You make it sound like the family was upstairs and he went charging into the basement like Rambo. That is not the case, per the OP.
quote:

His family wasn't in any danger at the time he opened fire, nor was it in any imminent danger.

How do you know this? What if the next room the guy decided to look for "junk" in was the child's room?
quote:

The only person in danger was himself and he put himself in that position.

A believe it was the criminal that did that.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:53:45 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		Arpig,

If he had waited in the bedroom and the burglar managed to kill him and his family because he acted as you suggest, what sort of condolences would you offer?

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 2:55:08 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Popeye, I luvs ya friend! Thanks . Get your ass back to Maine anytime, you have a place to stay. Trust me, it's well armed and stocked with all the accouterments for a good time, it's the ATF with hot chicks in this house.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:02:42 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
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From: United States
Status: offline 		Arpig I'm sorry you see it as a cop out......I stayed as quiet as I have during this thread due to the construction of it.Look,without going in to the "is it real or is it memorex" argument.....this is the scenario that if one were trying to craft a "gun in every home argument"....you might want to start with a situation very similiar to this one..
I don't see any chance to argue with this particular scenario....other than what I pointed out in my last post.....the same society armed both parties
I appreciate that you see purpose in voicing your opinion here....I didn't and really don't....one doesn't go into church and try to convince the congregation that god is a figment of their imagination....in this particular church ,with these particular congregants its a no-win situation.Hell...scroll back a few pages you will see perfectly lucid and intelligent persons declaring their intent to go do some target shooting this weekend.All in reaction to the tale of some kid being shot.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 12/8/2009 3:41:29 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:04:06 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

WTF?? a man BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE.
True enough, and according to the OP he loaded his gun and went stealthily in search of the guy...ergo he hunted him down.
quote:

And you know that how exactly?
From the OP, he told us just where in the layout of his house he was and where the bad guy was, and nowhere does he mention his family being anywhere near the basement storage room. I am willing to assume that the OP gave us truthful information. Working on that assumption one can legitimately assume nobody was in any imminent danger when he opened fire except for himself.
quote:

Again, how is it you KNOW his family wasn't in danger? And how exactly did he put himself in danger? i was under the impression the criminal did that by BREAKING IN TO THE MANS HOUSE ARMED.
Again, because the OP said so. And how did he put himself in danger...simple, he went looking for the guy, therefore he put himself in danger. If he had loaded his gun and stayed where he was and called the police from his bedroom then he would not have been in danger, but he chose to go looking for the guy.

There simply was no reason why the shooting was required, it was the OP's actions that made it necessary for somebody to get shot.
quote:


ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Arpig I wouldn't bother...,this thread and this  very scenario is all the validation needed by the gun crowd.The only point of contention allowed here is over the failure to kill.

And this is the biggest deflective, cop out, i've heard in a LONG time LMFAO
I agree with you on this, while I do realise my opinions are highly unlikely to sway anybody, that is no reason not to voice them. It is a cop-out to say I will be quiet because my words will fall on deaf ears, one never knows who is reading and what effect one's words might have. If even one person decided to be more responsible and less gung-ho about gun use then I will have accomplished far more than I expected.




Fair enough Sir.... We just see this differently. Would i love to see no illegal guns? Yes of course.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:07:09 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

Fair enough Sir.... We just see this differently. Would i love to see no illegal guns? Yes of course.
Fair enough indeed . We can call a truce.While we both would like to see no illegal guns, I personally would like to see no legal guns as well. I have managed to get by for 50 years without ever once needing a gun, and I presently live in one of the roughest parts of my town, and have lived downtown for the last 25 years.


< Message edited by Arpig -- 12/8/2009 3:09:16 PM >

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:17:45 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
And how did he put himself in danger...simple, he went looking for the guy, therefore he put himself in danger. If he had loaded his gun and stayed where he was and called the police from his bedroom then he would not have been in danger, but he chose to go looking for the guy.



But even if that's true, his family would have been. And that's the whole point.


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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:24:12 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I have managed to get by for 50 years without ever once needing a gun, and I presently live in one of the roughest parts of my town, and have lived downtown for the last 25 years.

It's a shame that your life is not the model that all lives were created from.  Well, no, not really.  I wouldn't want us all to be crazy, but it would be nice if no one was ever put into the position where they needed a firearm to protect themselves or their families from an armed intruder.  While we're wishing, it would also be nice if it rained $100 bills every Tuesday and stupid people were born sterile.  Ah, what a wonderful world that would be.

~stef

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:34:34 PM   
Arpig


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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		well if mere possession of a firearm were a felony offense with say a 10-year term, then you'd be able to remove much of the problem. Its funny really, how the biggest argument in favour of people owning guns is to protect themselves against other people with guns. Why not simply remove all the guns. Its really very simple, but for some reason it seems to be beyond the pale to most folks.
You want a gun for hunting? sure, you get a gun and 5 rounds/year...if you can't bag a deer in 5 shots you shouldn't be hunting. I realize there is no political will to deal with the issue, its much simpler and easier to do fuck all and to wring our hands over all those killed by guns. but that doesn't alter the facts.


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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:39:14 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Arpig,

They should just ban illegal drugs because that is the real source of all this violence!

And I notice you haven't answered what you would say to the man who followed your advice but found his entire family raped and killed because what he thought might be a troubled teenager was instead a disturbed sociopath.

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RE: Defended my home - 12/8/2009 3:49:17 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

well if mere possession of a firearm were a felony offense with say a 10-year term, then you'd be able to remove much of the problem.

You're back to making wishes again.  It won't ever happen.  Try sticking to reality, please.

quote:

Its funny really, how the biggest argument in favour of people owning guns is to protect themselves against other people with guns.

For some it's the main reason, for many others, it's not.  I shoot because I enjoy shooting and it's a fun way to spend an afternoon.  It also has the added benefit to be a good skill for protection.  So that's a win-win situation.

quote:

Why not simply remove all the guns. Its really very simple, but for some reason it seems to be beyond the pale to most folks.

Didn't we already cover this?  You can't un-ring a bell.  It's not going to happen.

quote:

You want a gun for hunting? sure, you get a gun and 5 rounds/year...if you can't bag a deer in 5 shots you shouldn't be hunting.

This is simply too inane to answer.

quote:

I realize there is no political will to deal with the issue, its much simpler and easier to do fuck all and to wring our hands over all those killed by guns. but that doesn't alter the facts.

The only "facts" you present are that you don't like firearms and they should all go away.  You're right, there's no altering that.  I wish you luck finding the alternate reality where that's a remote possibility.  Send us a postcard.

~stef


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