RE: Defended my home (Full Version)

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Marc2b -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:22:14 PM)

I’m not one hundred percent convinced that it is a hoax. I know he told another poster (on page fourteen) that it was but the impression I got was that he was blowing them off because he didn’t want to deal with their disbelief (or the insult that it implied). You know, the way some one says ”yeah, yeah, you’re right,” because they know they are not going to convince them and are sick and tired of listening to them.

Another poster mentioned that the post times are in Pacific Time. I just tested this to be sure. That post (this is a test…) reads as having been posted at 11:54 am. Where I am sitting (in the Eastern Time Zone, same as Orion) it was 2:54 pm when I made the post. That confirms the time difference. This means that the OP was made at 9:18 am, Eastern Time, nearly six hours after the alleged incident. Plenty of time for the subsequent events to take place.

As for the level of detail in the original post: My impression of that was that he was engaging in a known psychological process where we immediately start second guessing our actions and so we detail exactly what we did as a justification for our actions. We want to be sure we did the right things. The most recent case of this happening to me was about three weeks ago when I witnessed an accident. A car turned in front of a motorcycle, causing the cycle to hit it.

As I stood nearby, watching the paramedics (nobody was seriously hurt – the cyclist had a broken ankle) and waiting for the police to interview me, I kept going over the events in my head. Did that lady turn before the green arrow disappeared, or after? It was after. I’m sure of that. But the biggest thing going around in my head was how much time elapsed between the instant I realized a collision was going to happen and the instant the collision occurred. Why? Because I needed to justify to myself that I didn’t have time to honk a warning. That there was nothing I could have done to have prevented the collision.

The entire first paragraph of the OP reads like that – an “I did everything right, I had no other choices,” justification.

Two notes to make sure I am clear on everything:

First, until Orion comes out and says, "yes everybody, it really was a hoax, I made the whole thing up just for the fun of it," I still have no reason to disbelieve him. I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Second, when I say that Orion was trying to justify his actions, I am not in anyway implying that he did anything wrong. I am merely, as I said, remarking on a known psychological process.

Edited to add: so who makes that cartoon? I want to know who has been spying on me and my mother.



slvemike4u -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:24:05 PM)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree....I think even if he had prefaced all of his comments with a ringing endorsement for what Orion claimed....but than went further and suggested some of his alternatives...he still would have got blasted.
Hell one poster(and I'm not going back to look for it,this thread is too damm long) remarking on one of his posts concerning a defensive choice....responded that her father had a word for a man who would do that....."pussy".
This has been for the most part and in the hands of most responders a love in for pulling the trigger.....one disagree's with that at their own peril.....even when the one is nominally on your side.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:30:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I guess we will have to agree to disagree....I think even if he had prefaced all of his comments with a ringing endorsement for what Orion claimed....but than went further and suggested some of his alternatives...he still would have got blasted.
Hell one poster(and I'm not going back to look for it,this thread is too damm long) remarking on one of his posts concerning a defensive choice....responded that her father had a word for a man who would do that....."pussy".



I remember the post you're talking about, and I agree with it completely. Any father who (thinking there may be an intruder in the house) locks himself in the bedroom and hides out waiting for the police to arrive, knowing he has a 4-year old child completely undefended in another bedroom, is a coward. How could any parent possibly do that?


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
This has been for the most part and in the hands of most responders a love in for pulling the trigger.....one disagree's with that at their own peril.....even when the one is nominally on your side.


I guess you're going to see it any way you want to see it.



Loki45 -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:30:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peregrinus1716
the only thing i see wrong with your actions is that at least in my state the police have advised us to empty the clip especially if we have military trainning because they are likely to argue that it was not self defense if it is controlled. Not a veiw point i like but something i figured i'd mention don't know if it works in the rest of the usa

The police are advising people to empty guns in an uncontrolled manner......glad I don't live in that state [&:]


Re-read the comment. He said nothing about "uncontrolled." He simply said "empty the clip." You can empty the clip in a controlled manner and have it still look like you were so afraid for your life, you kept pulling the trigger until the gun only clicked.





There's the 'appearance' of uncontrolled, such as when you empty the clip out of fear, and then there's actually uncontrolled, ie where you miss a lot.



Loki45 -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:33:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
There is no logical debate with pro-gun wack jobs...it has never been possible no matter the body count !


Just like there's no logical debate with the anti-gun wack jobs, either.

Guess it's a good thing I've always been a middle of the road kinda guy.



Kirata -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:37:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Another poster mentioned that the post times are in Pacific Time. I just tested this to be sure. That post (this is a test…) reads as having been posted at 11:54 am. Where I am sitting (in the Eastern Time Zone, same as Orion) it was 2:54 pm when I made the post. That confirms the time difference. This means that the OP was made at 9:18 am, Eastern Time, nearly six hours after the alleged incident. Plenty of time for the subsequent events to take place.

You are correct, of course, that CM defaults to US Pacific time. But just FYI, anyone seeing posts time-stamped in anything other than their correct local time has not set the time adjustment in their profile (in your case, 3 hours). Once that is done, all posts will display a time-stamp that reflects the correct local reference.

K.




Loki45 -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:38:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Zero you as so many others don't understand... and if you had read all my responses you may... A poster said I had no right to comment because I had not been in a similar situation...I had and did not like his attitude in assuming otherwise.


You hadn't, actually. By your own account, your situation differed wildly from the OP. You had an entire floor between you, your kids and the bad guy. Orion was on the same floor, his own 4-year-old son's room just feet from where the bad guy was rummaging around.

Vastly different.



Loki45 -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:39:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I don't know about others Lockit....but for me,if you can't walk up to your local bartender and order a legal drink(preferably Jack Daniels...lol)....you are still a child !


And since he can go off to war and die for his country, he ain't a child. (And that's not even taking into account his legal status in the eyes of the law.)



InvisibleBlack -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:44:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

This has been for the most part and in the hands of most responders a love in for pulling the trigger.....one disagree's with that at their own peril.....even when the one is nominally on your side.


I'm not sure about that. I'll have to think about it. I agree that there's been some unnecessary name-calling and harsh accusations going around on this thread - but, well, that's life in the big city (or the Internet as the case may be) on any hot button topic.

Anyways, I'm not sure that the intense responses are due so much to a "love in for pulling the trigger" as they are a visceral denial to the implication that defending one's home with violence is a morally inferior position to withdrawing and hiding. Please note - I say "implication" because no one outright stated that the actions were morally inferior but it can be inferred from the tone of some of the posts.

It also might have to do with a more theoretical arguement between the active response - "I better do something about this" - and the passive response - "get out of the way and let someone responsible take care of this" - which underlies many societal or political arguements, but I don't feel that this is the case in this instance.

Accusations based on ascribing motives to someone's position - "cowardice", "love of violence", whatever - generally serve to stifle debate. It's often a better effort to try and understand exactly why they hold the views they do, and whether the basis for them is built on a solid foundation or just a blind belief or faith.

Of course, sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.



Marc2b -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:47:19 PM)

quote:

You are correct, of course, that CM defaults to US Pacific time. But just FYI, anyone seeing posts time-stamped in anything other than their correct local time has not set the time adjustment in their profile (in your case, 3 hours). Once that is done, all posts will display a time-stamp that reflects the correct local reference.


Well, what do you know, you learn something new every day. Thanks.

Just so that everyone is on the same page, there is still a nearly six hour space between the incident and the OP.



Lockit -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:50:52 PM)

Love of pulling a trigger... I doubt that anyone forced to pull a trigger is happy about it and could be damaged in many ways for having to take such force. What we are is happy that we can pull a trigger if need be and that our familie's might be safe because we did pull one. I don't see anyone looking for an opportunity to suffer all the ramifications of pulling a trigger or in happy that they did. I do however see those happy that their family is protected and if a trigger has been pulled, that they had protection and the courage to do what they had to do.

I just had a thought about any man I might be with. If he wasn't willing to pull a trigger to protect me or mine or our's... his lil trigger wouldn't be pulled... not ever. I now have a new requirement I guess. lol



Kirata -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 12:56:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

It wasn't a snipe at goreans....it was a snipe at you and your presumptions...and as uncalled for as your characterization of me "waving a hankie around"
As for brusque and dissmisive....pot kettle...black.

I'll stipulate that "brusque and dismissive" (spelling corrected) can at times apply to both of us. But if you are suggesting that my characterization of a bald appeal to emotion as "waving a hankie around" referred in any way to your lifestyle, the connection escapes me and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. Hankie => wipe tears, get it?

K.



slvemike4u -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:02:27 PM)

What the fuck are you talking about now Kirata.....the only snipe I read into "waving a hankie "was the characterization you intended it to be.My lifestyle,as far as I know,had nothing to do with it.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:07:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

I guess we will have to agree to disagree....I think even if he had prefaced all of his comments with a ringing endorsement for what Orion claimed....but than went further and suggested some of his alternatives...he still would have got blasted.
Hell one poster(and I'm not going back to look for it,this thread is too damm long) remarking on one of his posts concerning a defensive choice....responded that her father had a word for a man who would do that....."pussy".
This has been for the most part and in the hands of most responders a love in for pulling the trigger.....one disagree's with that at their own peril.....even when the one is nominally on your side.


It was me that used the pussy word and it was in reference to someone saying that they should barricade and lock themselves in their bedroom. I said that my father would have called any man who did that and left their family to fend for themselves a pussy. In fact, I too would call any one who did that a pussy.



slvemike4u -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:14:09 PM)

Aileen,I am not a prude...I have nothing against the "pussy word"....lol.
I would be a little leery of calling someone a "pussy" based on some hypothetical situation.
Knowing how one wants to react in a given situation is all well and good.....but till it actually happens....one never knows



Kirata -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:15:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What the fuck are you talking about now Kirata.....the only snipe I read into "waving a hankie "was the characterization you intended it to be.My lifestyle,as far as I know,had nothing to do with it.

Well, you claimed that your snipe mentioning my lifestyle, questioning whether reading minds was a "Gorean skill" or among my "earthly abilities," was just as "uncalled for as your characterization of me 'waving a hankie around,'" which seemed to convey that you viewed it as a tit for tat exchange. I'm glad to know I was wrong, because I wouldn't do that.

K.



Aileen1968 -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:25:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Aileen,I am not a prude...I have nothing against the "pussy word"....lol.
I would be a little leery of calling someone a "pussy" based on some hypothetical situation.
Knowing how one wants to react in a given situation is all well and good.....but till it actually happens....one never knows


Luckily I've never been in any kind of situation like this. I do know that there is nothing that would make me leave my children alone to fend for themselves. Nothing.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:29:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

[:)] I love polyglots :-) .


So do I, smooches kittin.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:33:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

I love polyglots :-) .


I’m fluent in Canadian. [:)]

I was downing some alcool at the ballet in PMS when I gots a hankering for some Timmies, eh? I rummaged aboot my pocket but was skank of loonies, eh? Brutal, eh?

Translation: I was getting drunk at a stripclub in Toronto when I got a craving for donuts but when I checked my pockets, I discovered I was broke. That sucks.



ROTFL Very good Marc, that is however Northern Canadian, we who are not quite so Northern don't use "eh" quite so much. In fact I don't think you'll find a single one in my posts lol.



Sanity -> RE: Defended my home (12/10/2009 1:39:48 PM)


I am in Mountain Standard time zone and your test post reads that it was posted at 12:54 pm, and I see that on our collarchat profile page we can adjust our "server time" and so what you wrote is valid. The time that posts indicate have no relative bearing to the local time where any given collarchat member is sitting. Any given member may even have their "server time" adjusted improperly, which would throw everything off anyway.


quote:

Another poster mentioned that the post times are in Pacific Time. I just tested this to be sure. That post (this is a test…) reads as having been posted at 11:54 am. Where I am sitting (in the Eastern Time Zone, same as Orion) it was 2:54 pm when I made the post. That confirms the time difference. This means that the OP was made at 9:18 am, Eastern Time, nearly six hours after the alleged incident. Plenty of time for the subsequent events to take place.



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