RE: what if

RE: what if (Full Version)

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MasterSlaveLA -> RE: what if (12/18/2009 3:11:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 ... would you go back there if the chance arose. You already know you would/will.

submittous -> RE: what if (12/18/2009 3:32:22 PM)
I agree... sound to me like you want to go back and that's probably a good enough reason to do it....

lally2 -> RE: what if (12/18/2009 4:33:49 PM)
no, the jury is still out. sometimes its difficult to think beyond youre own thoughts. when i ask for advice i take it, and i have taken on board everything that everyone has said. ive already used alot of this advice and directed it at him. he knows he has alot to do to rebuild my trust. im reading mercs thread with alot of interest too

lusciouslips19 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 3:59:00 AM)
I personally have never has an experience of someone rebuilding trust. They never really put in the work to rebuild it. The trust was gone and the person who could have rebuilt it didnt go as far as I would have needed in order for that to happen. Its a pretty slippery slope to restart a relationship where the trust is just not there. How far will they have to go to regain your trust? Likely its just not going to happen bacuase your expectations will be too high for them and you will need some grand gesture that is just not within them anyway.

lally2 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 5:57:21 AM)
i hear what youre saying lushy, but it depends i think on where the trust issues come from. if theres an issue about playing safe because he gets carried away then that would be a bigee if theres an issue about consistency with the Ms or Ds then for me thered be a problem if there was an issue about committment to me id have a problem none of those things arose but., dishonesty did. the question is, i think, whether or not the individual(s) involved have recognised their fault in it all, have grown from it, evolved from it, realised that they had something special going and want to make it work, not for a week or a month or a year but for keeps. but i agree that dishonesty is huge, he hurt more than just me. i do believe he regrets how it all went down in the end.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 6:06:15 AM)
The recognition of fault or failure is not the ability to change. You stated that you have never gone backwards. I have . I can tell you that in every instance the same issues were there as both of our characteristics and how they played off each other were still there. Dishonesty is a biggie in my book. If this is whom I am thinking it is, there was a big problem with selfish and self centered-ness that came about. It may have manifested itself in dishonesty. But the dishonesty came about from those character flaws. For me one that disregards my needs and feelings in such a major way would not be a road that I would want to travel again. Perhaps it would not manifest itself in the same way but the self centered selfish,not putting the "we" first and dishonesty would still be there. Also, the not seeing passed ones own nose and lack of forethought would not change.

lally2 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 6:19:39 AM)
i know lushy, which is why im really torn. edited to add: i dont need a relationship, im not gagging for it, im the most happy ive been for ages. i could go into this with both eyes wide open or not. the choice is totally mine. im just trying to mull it all around. i didnt mean for this to become a personal thread atall, i tried to keep it in the third person. in the end people were split about whether a mismatch on bdsm was the clincher or whether the strength of the friendship and love involved was enough. im still not sure. the dishonesty thing is an issue but not really the major one for me. the major one is whether to break a rule and go back to something id already left.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 6:25:13 AM)
Thats why I am telling you. Because I have been there. Listen, its a lot easier to think about going backwards than to think abaout going it alone. Especially when you had great feelings for someone. Even if theirs were rather shallow. The truth is that if I keep doing what I have always done, I will always get the same results. Also, what gesture will really be grand enough to make up for what someone has done/ How far will they have to go? Everytime they hurt you in some emotional way it will reopen the old wound and lack of trust.

persephonee -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 6:26:04 AM)
heres something, lally... the dishonesty kind of trumps whatever S/m issues there might be. There is one relationship in my life that i have spent wayyy too much time mentally reviewing, thinking of all the what if's, convincing myself that i could go back, things would be different this time...lots of work to be done, but in the end, wouldnt it be worth it?....and every time....in the end, it all came down to trust. And that was still the dealbreaker. Cant we just go back and wait for the other guy to find your wallet again? Mebbe this time, throw a condom in there?....Please? That was a story i could get behind! Make the best decision you can with the information you have....but dont forget to add in the old information from the past....because it all matters, despite what might be said now. History has a way of being rewritten in the hopes of a better ending....just be well.[;)]

julietsierra -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 8:33:03 AM)
Guess it would depend on the reasons. See, to me, one counters the other. He can be a sadist... any kind of sadist he wants... and I'll submit. I want him being who he is. And if our disconnect is simply that he wants more of something than I do... well, I submit. Period. (No, I'm not some ridiculous holier-than-thou submissive trying to prove I'm better than anyone else. My criteria for staying or going is simply different. If I knew he didn't care about/for me, that's when I'd go. His sadism is his alone to determine. My only job is to determine how to submit. Generally it's joyfully. Sometimes, it's difficult. But the man is worth all. At least to me. juliet

lally2 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 11:04:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra Guess it would depend on the reasons. See, to me, one counters the other. He can be a sadist... any kind of sadist he wants... and I'll submit. I want him being who he is. And if our disconnect is simply that he wants more of something than I do... well, I submit. Period. (No, I'm not some ridiculous holier-than-thou submissive trying to prove I'm better than anyone else. My criteria for staying or going is simply different. If I knew he didn't care about/for me, that's when I'd go. His sadism is his alone to determine. My only job is to determine how to submit. Generally it's joyfully. Sometimes, it's difficult. But the man is worth all. At least to me. juliet yes - thats how i see it.

lally2 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 11:09:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: persephonee heres something, lally... the dishonesty kind of trumps whatever S/m issues there might be. There is one relationship in my life that i have spent wayyy too much time mentally reviewing, thinking of all the what if's, convincing myself that i could go back, things would be different this time...lots of work to be done, but in the end, wouldnt it be worth it?....and every time....in the end, it all came down to trust. And that was still the dealbreaker. Cant we just go back and wait for the other guy to find your wallet again? Mebbe this time, throw a condom in there?....Please? That was a story i could get behind! Make the best decision you can with the information you have....but dont forget to add in the old information from the past....because it all matters, despite what might be said now. History has a way of being rewritten in the hopes of a better ending....just be well.[;)] ok. but what if the guy in question was new to it all. he has this personality that makes it easy for him to extract submission from you but in all other ways he's like a kid in a sweetie shop. he wants it all and now and then this and try that and oooh, that looks fun. he found a slave quite quickly, almost from the moment he started looking into it all. she was about as close to right for him as anyone could be and because it came so easily he didnt value what he'd found. he thought all slaves were the same and that the dynamic was easy enough to replicate. he phucked up and the slave walked and it wasnt until then that he realised that she and him had worked on a level he couldnt replicate. how would you then feel if this man came back and apologised for being a complete jerk, said he knew what he had and he was willing to do whatever it took to earn her trust back.

persephonee -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 11:16:30 AM)
i hear what you are saying, lal...and honestly, the people who were in it in the beginning are the only ones who know if it would work out, or if it was worth even trying. All things being equal, anyone can try anything as many times as they want....as long as the awareness is there that there are consequences for every action...and sometimes, we are so busy looking backward, that we run smack dab into a wall in front of us.

julietsierra -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 12:45:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 ok. but what if the guy in question was new to it all. he has this personality that makes it easy for him to extract submission from you but in all other ways he's like a kid in a sweetie shop. he wants it all and now and then this and try that and oooh, that looks fun. he found a slave quite quickly, almost from the moment he started looking into it all. she was about as close to right for him as anyone could be and because it came so easily he didnt value what he'd found. he thought all slaves were the same and that the dynamic was easy enough to replicate. he phucked up and the slave walked and it wasnt until then that he realised that she and him had worked on a level he couldnt replicate. how would you then feel if this man came back and apologised for being a complete jerk, said he knew what he had and he was willing to do whatever it took to earn her trust back. ok.. given this scenario... if he "apologized for being a complete jerk and ... was willing to do whatever it took to earn her trust back..." I'd be instantly turned off - cause the control then would be with me. And I do not want to be in charge of my relationship. On the other hand, if we talked, realized there was still a strong connection, made each of our concerns known and came to some sort of understanding between the two of us, then day to day, built a relationship on our experiences, both good and bad, so that we became comfortable with each other again - him being exactly who he is; me being exactly who I am (even if the sadism is still difficult) - and found it worked well a second time around... THAT would be worth it. But to want that apology for simply being the sadist he is? No thank you. To have him promise to do whatever it took to win my trust? Absolutely no way. That just sounds too horrible to contemplate - not to mention just plain sad. At least to me. juliet

lally2 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 1:16:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 ok. but what if the guy in question was new to it all. he has this personality that makes it easy for him to extract submission from you but in all other ways he's like a kid in a sweetie shop. he wants it all and now and then this and try that and oooh, that looks fun. he found a slave quite quickly, almost from the moment he started looking into it all. she was about as close to right for him as anyone could be and because it came so easily he didnt value what he'd found. he thought all slaves were the same and that the dynamic was easy enough to replicate. he phucked up and the slave walked and it wasnt until then that he realised that she and him had worked on a level he couldnt replicate. how would you then feel if this man came back and apologised for being a complete jerk, said he knew what he had and he was willing to do whatever it took to earn her trust back. ok.. given this scenario... if he "apologized for being a complete jerk and ... was willing to do whatever it took to earn her trust back..." I'd be instantly turned off - cause the control then would be with me. And I do not want to be in charge of my relationship. On the other hand, if we talked, realized there was still a strong connection, made each of our concerns known and came to some sort of understanding between the two of us, then day to day, built a relationship on our experiences, both good and bad, so that we became comfortable with each other again - him being exactly who he is; me being exactly who I am (even if the sadism is still difficult) - and found it worked well a second time around... THAT would be worth it. But to want that apology for simply being the sadist he is? No thank you. To have him promise to do whatever it took to win my trust? Absolutely no way. That just sounds too horrible to contemplate - not to mention just plain sad. At least to me. juliet in this scenario - he isnt apologising for his sadism, he's apologising for dishonesty and screwing up. the screwing up and dishonesty is what undermined the trust. i agree, noone should apologise for who and what they are, absolutely no way. you are either accepted for who you are or you move on

DesFIP -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 2:09:29 PM)
I think my problem with a hypothetical post such as this is that if he had been honest and said upfront he was the all time sadist, I wouldn't have dated him. So I wouldn't have fallen in love with him etc. And if he hadn't been upfront about it, but lied by omission as it were, that would cause its own problems. Either way, I wouldn't have gotten this far in the relationship to have the kind of dilemma the op presents.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 2:13:44 PM)
Not all new Dominants act like a kid in a sweetie shop. Some are even keeled and use forethought even though new. They learn all they can ahead of time and they seek out mentors to guide them.

Level -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 2:42:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 the relationship (allowing for the fact that theyve both grown up and matured and gone through what went wrong and have talked openly and honestly about why and how) I'd wonder what the result of the conversations were. Is he willing to change? If not, is what he gives worth what you endure?

bliss4us09 -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 3:18:48 PM)
Is your safety a factor? If yes, don't go back. If no, ask yourself whether he has actually taken you past your own limits to new - and pleasurable places. If yes, go back.

julietsierra -> RE: what if (12/19/2009 3:28:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 in this scenario - he isnt apologising for his sadism, he's apologising for dishonesty and screwing up. the screwing up and dishonesty is what undermined the trust. i agree, noone should apologise for who and what they are, absolutely no way. you are either accepted for who you are or you move on Year 2: Been there; done that (kinda sorta - no breakups involved.) I didn't walk away. We stuck it out and talked it out - no apologies wanted; none offered - just tons of conversation so that each understood where the other stood and we reached a point in which both of us felt we could move forward. On the back half of year 7: Still going strong (oh yea... in my mind, we're stronger for what went down, cause when it's easy, you never know what you're capable of. We weathered the dificult stuff and came out on the other side intact and more committed than ever to what we're building together. It may not be this way for everyone, but that's how it worked out for us.) It IS possible to weather life's crises and still be good ... no... great together. juliet

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