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reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 7:36:54 AM

sissyshoefetish

Posts: 105
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline

One user on here has recently courted controversy through his posts (the user is osf and i have no aim or intention to judge him or his comments here so i hope he doesn't mind being mentioned).

i have found myself wondering if my responses and reactions would have been different if that user were female. Interestingly i find it would make a huge difference; i think i would find this person equally confrontational but i would automatically defer to their authority were they female. As they are not female i find myself provoked into critical comment.
This is not a bias i can identify in myself in vanilla life so i think here i would be more respectful of women because i regard them as superior.

So here is my question to subs (and others of course):

Do you think this gender based reaction is something i should work on?
Should i aim to be more passive.
Should i perhaps apologise to osf as an exercise in humility or can i be allowed the arrogance of criticising a dom?

any thoughts?

Post #: 1

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 7:42:53 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

There is definately a gender bias in responses on CM in regards to certain matters. I brought it up myself in the recent thread about women and sex. However, with all due respect to osf, I don't think it's the issue there.

Edited to add cause I was naughty and skimmed while getting ready:

quote:

Do you think this gender based reaction is something i should work on?

Yes. The women on this board don't need you agreeing with them just cause we have tits and a twat. I find this sort of attitude very offensive as a woman. It's not my body that makes me correct or incorrect. It's my mind - respect it and give me the respect I deserve by agreeing with me only if I'm correct.

quote:

Should i aim to be more passive.

Why? Did your owner tell you to?

quote:

Should i perhaps apologise to osf as an exercise in humility or can i be allowed the arrogance of criticising a dom?

Criticising a dom in and of itself isn't arrogance nor are you so far below them just because they are a dom that correcting them is arrogance. Be polite in your corrections and your comments for as long as they can. I know I will chose more cutting words if I feel the person is simply baiting insults or flinging mud needlessly.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/22/2009 7:58:22 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 2

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 7:43:11 AM

EbonyWood

Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

Just an apology for mentioning osf will be enough, because he will no doubt turn up here and think he has an impact.

Dont feed the trolls.

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 3

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 7:53:10 AM

honeygirl

Posts: 111
Joined: 11/12/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish

So here is my question to subs (and others of course):

Do you think this gender based reaction is something i should work on?

Yes! Based solely on the fact that you would defer to a female were she to have written the same posts as osf, you should absolutely work on your reaction, in my opinion.

quote:

Should i aim to be more passive.

Based on what you write in your original post, I would imagine you should consider working on your assertiveness.

quote:

Should i perhaps apologise to osf as an exercise in humility or can i be allowed the arrogance of criticising a dom?

That seems...excessive. You must be feeling extremely penitent

That said, there is no arrogance attached to criticizing a person who has checked the "dominant" button on their profile.

Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when you'll end up with a really nutty one!

You should consider looking at the bigger picture to determine how you wish to treat someone here. Maybe it shouldn't be based only on whether the person is dominant. Or female.

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 4

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 9:00:16 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

As a female I find two of your assumptions as offensive. The more obvious one is that I would be considered superior just based on what is between my legs. That premise makes no sense for either sex.
The other is that you assume subs would aim to be more passive... umm.. you do know that many subs are female, right? Do you then believe that even we females who identify as submissive are also passive?
As for your last query.. are you apologising because you believe you were wrong? Or are you apologising because the thought of debasing yourself makes you squirmy and you think that might impress some dominant?

Anyway I see it, you seemed more focused on your fetish (all females are superior), than on reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish
So here is my question to subs (and others of course):

Do you think this gender based reaction is something i should work on?
Should i aim to be more passive.
Should i perhaps apologise to osf as an exercise in humility or can i be allowed the arrogance of criticising a dom?

any thoughts?

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 5

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 9:10:38 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Definitely work on your gender bias. Respect a woman or a man because they have earned it, not through an accident of birth. And don't try to force yourself to be something you aren't. If you're passive by nature, then find someone who appreciates that in a sub. If however you are dynamic by nature, find someone who wants that.

Forcing yourself to act in a role that is foreign to you may help you get into a relationship but it will be doomed. You need someone who knows and appreciates your authentic self, whatever it may be and not someone who dislikes who you really are.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 6

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 10:18:43 AM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish

Do you think this gender based reaction is something i should work on?
Yes. I do not think you should base your reactions on the gender of the other person. React to them as individuals.
Should i aim to be more passive.
I would say be more assertive.
Should i perhaps apologise to osf as an exercise in humility or can i be allowed the arrogance of criticising a dom?
I do not think you are somehow automatically beneath Him just because you are submissive, and I do not thinking criticizing Him was arrogant. Just be polite. Personally, I will not submit to Anyone until we have agreed to be in a dynamic together. Until then, we are all just people like any other people. Plus, we are all entitled to our opinions.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 7

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 10:31:05 AM

Wolf2Bear

Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish

So here is my question to subs (and others of course):

Do you think this gender based reaction is something i should work on?
Should i aim to be more passive.
Should i perhaps apologise to osf as an exercise in humility or can i be allowed the arrogance of criticising a dom?

any thoughts?

In regards to the poster you mentioned, only you can determine if you need to apologize if you felt you were out of line. I take a stance here on the threads that regardless of what role a person identifies with, I communicate to them person to person and person to role. If you feel that the person mentioned, his natural inclination to always provoke, block is a good friend if you find their attitude is offensive.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 8

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 5:05:35 PM

Drifa

Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
Status: offline

Honestly, while I have no prejudice as to race or gender or religion I am horribly prejudiced against the willfully ignorant and those who act stupid and are proud of it. And I react just as badly to willfully stupid women as I do men. Osf is just an exceptionally mouthy version, so he's getting a heck of a lot more heat at the moment.

Men are MUCH more likely than women to come to these forums and post fake threads trying to solicit pictures and or wanking material, which a lot of the women despise. I personally dislike these posts because (1) the poster is assuming we're all so stupid we won't notice that they're just fishing for wanking material, and (2) the poster is so stupid that they haven't figured out that there are PLENTY of places on the web to get wanking material already, including movies, photos, and erotic literature. It's my stupid people prejudice again. If someone came and posted that they really are looking for wanking material of X type and did anyone have recommendations where they could obtain such, I wouldn't be offended -- that's an honest and intelligent communication. Although I expect a number of people would suggest to them that they explore the wonderful world of Google.

Similarly, people who come in and ask honest questions without the little digs and disparaging remarks that osf seems forced to salt into his posts meet with a much better reception. There's no shame in being new to BDSM or D/s or just to CollarMe and asking questions. It's annoying as bloody hell when some person comes into the forums and mouths off as if they were the World Expert on Dominance when from what they are posting they clearly have no clue. From the posts I saw before I put osf on ignore, I'm guessing that all he wants is to stir the pot. Eventually enough people will be tired of him and ignore him and the fun will go away and so will he.

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 9

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 5:07:17 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissyshoefetish

So here is my question to subs (and others of course):

Do you think this gender based reaction is something i should work on?
Should i aim to be more passive.
Should i perhaps apologise to osf as an exercise in humility or can i be allowed the arrogance of criticising a dom?

1. I don't think you *should* work on it, but I wouldn't have any problem with you working on it. I really don't see how it's different from any other bias based on attraction. Some guys find giggling and hair twirling to be endearing in a woman, that doesn't mean they should "work on" getting the same reaction when they see another guy do it. If you find an outspoken woman attractive and feel a natural response to it I don't see why you need to "fix" yourself to see guys the same way. Your natural response to things, especially things that you relate to attraction, isn't going to be logical.

2. Only if you want to be more passive. I enjoyed your analysis of osf, and I think that the only person who can make the decision to be more passive is you. Or possibly, if you're in a D/s dynamic and behaviour mod is part of that dynamic, your Domme.

3. You shouldn't apologize if you're not genuinely sorry for what you did.

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 10

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 5:15:20 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

regardless of what anyone thinks of me, i treat women of any sexual orientation with more equality than those that rush in to protect the poor defenseless dears which was the subject of one of my threads

i think they can damned well take care of themselves online

if i saw one getting accosted on the street my reaction would be very different

but here it's only words and they are as capable of using words as anybody

(in reply to sissyshoefetish)

Post #: 11

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 8:38:22 PM

numuncular

Posts: 183
Joined: 2/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

regardless of what anyone thinks of me, i treat women of any sexual orientation with more equality than those that rush in to protect the poor defenseless dears which was the subject of one of my threads

being an arse to everyone isn't really equality.

(in reply to osf)

Post #: 12

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 9:00:17 PM

Valyraen

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline

I'm of two minds about that comment. Strictly functioning by the definition of the term equality (taken from dictionary.reference.com) as "correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability", being an arse to every *is* equality, because you're not discriminating on the basis of any factor. I'm reminded of the old, slightly off-color joke that hating everyone equally isn't being prejudiced - it's not pleasant, but it's true.

_____________________________

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There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to numuncular)

Post #: 13

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 9:33:14 PM

numuncular

Posts: 183
Joined: 2/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Valyraen

I'm of two minds about that comment. Strictly functioning by the definition of the term equality (taken from dictionary.reference.com) as "correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability", being an arse to every *is* equality, because you're not discriminating on the basis of any factor. I'm reminded of the old, slightly off-color joke that hating everyone equally isn't being prejudiced - it's not pleasant, but it's true.

hating everyone is a prejudice! unfettered misanthropy may be consistent but its simply prejudice against *everyone* and its unlikely to be treating people equally, since its unlikely its how the misanthrope treats themselves.
the only way a misanthrope can treat everyone equally is if its matched with a huge dollop of self-loathing.

(in reply to Valyraen)

Post #: 14

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 10:23:49 PM

Ladynslave

Posts: 376
Joined: 7/30/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: numuncular

being an arse to everyone isn't really equality.

Nope, it's equal opportunity. LOL!

(in reply to numuncular)

Post #: 15

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 11:13:49 PM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

gender bias

I have the luck that a don't know of many people if they are female or male.
( unless they have a picture ofcourse).
I read their messages/posts and I either agree or disagree with the contents.

(in reply to Ladynslave)

Post #: 16

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 11:34:12 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

Yeah, Just.. but you live in a fairly open and tolerant locale :)

(how's the winter been so far?)

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to Justme696)

Post #: 17

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 11:40:44 PM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline

Do you think the place we live has influence on how we respond here on genders?

____
HI mylady ;)

Winter is great. Some problems with traffic...but I have a 2 week holiday right now...no travelling to work.
And enough time to bully people here :P

Hope you do well also.

Damian

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 12/22/2009 11:41:09 PM >

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 18

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/22/2009 11:47:38 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

It's been much cooler than usual, fortunately, we don't have to deal with snow :)

As to the first question, yes, I do. If a society openly and actively fosters tolerance, etc., and is able to eschew the entrenched gender stereotyping, then I think yes. The Netherlands has, in many ways, been a leader of that trend.

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to Justme696)

Post #: 19

RE: reaction to comments - gender bias - 12/23/2009 12:20:44 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I'm not a submissive, but I want to answer your question because it gives Me a chance to explain My thoughts on the subject.

I'll be very honest with you. I don't have one inkling of desire to have what people think regarding what I say around here to be focused on what's between My legs. If anyone thinks anything of Me, for better or for worse, I want it to be on My own merit. Not because of what gender that I am or I'm not. If anyone out there thinks I'm a good top, I want that to be because of the skills I've acquired over the years. If I'm a good Dominant, that should be because of the way I have structured the dynamics in My life. I don't want 'special credit' just because I have tits.

Do I particularly get that? No. I've said so on these boards plenty of times on how imbalanced things can be in the kinky world based on gender. I think I should be held to the same standard as any other male Dominant out there. If I can't live up to that, it's My own fault.

At the same time, I understand your position, OP. There are definitely those out there who feel their submission more strongly when dealing with one gender rather than another. These yearnings aren't exactly 'wrong' but you may want to do some inner searching as to why something said by a female impacts you in a different way than a male.

I would say, consider both, why you feel the way you do in regards to gender, and the worthiness of the comments that made you react the way you did. Then, and only then, will you know if an apology is warranted or not.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 20

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