RE: Married People and the Lifestyle

RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 10:36:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: mindless platitude Maybe "boilerplate" would be a better word choice. When one reaches the same conclusion about everybody in a particular group, it is hard to see mindfulness in the process. Ah yes, "boilerplate" Because it is much more logical to simply dismiss the thought that something is wrong because the majority says so. I would suggest you read Lockit's post. When people cheat on their spouse, they are typically not running to the person they are cheating with and saying "I'm in an otherwise committed relationship" Often they lie to them as well. So on the one side they have a spouse who they made promises to that mean nothing, and on the other side they have someone else who thinks that the two of them are building a relationship. Both of these other people are being lied to. Yes in the BDSM world, more are apt to post around here saying they need a "discrete" relationship and that their spouse "just can't meet those needs." Why will they say that here and not as often in the vanilla world? Because they think that around here it would be more acceptable. You see the majority of the posts here do not approve of it. Your reasoning is that it is nothing more than a mindless platitude, as though we are all sheep following the heard. It can't possibly be because there are some things that are generally considered wrong by the majority of the population of a group. You can justify cheating any way you want. You can insult those who are against it any way you want. It doesn't make the cheating less wrong, and it certainly doesn't make those of us who are against it feel that we are too judgemental and close minded. All it really does is tell us that you are someone that most of us would never want to be involved with because you believe dishonesty is ok.

breatheasone -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 10:44:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady You can justify cheating any way you want. You can insult those who are against it any way you want. It doesn't make the cheating less wrong, and it certainly doesn't make those of us who are against it feel that we are too judgemental and close minded. All it really does is tell us that you are someone that most of us would never want to be involved with because you believe dishonesty is ok. [sm=yourock.gif]

LafayetteLady -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 10:47:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady You can justify cheating any way you want. You can insult those who are against it any way you want. It doesn't make the cheating less wrong, and it certainly doesn't make those of us who are against it feel that we are too judgemental and close minded. All it really does is tell us that you are someone that most of us would never want to be involved with because you believe dishonesty is ok. [sm=yourock.gif] [sm=thanks.gif]

agirl -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 11:18:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady You can justify cheating any way you want. You can insult those who are against it any way you want. It doesn't make the cheating less wrong, and it certainly doesn't make those of us who are against it feel that we are too judgemental and close minded. All it really does is tell us that you are someone that most of us would never want to be involved with because you believe dishonesty is ok. Being able to understand why some people cheat doesn't exactly equate to I think all dishonesty is ok. agirl

breatheasone -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 11:44:34 AM)
i hear what you are saying, there's where i get stuck though... Let's say i have a partner with your stance on honesty. i would be a little concerned about how to know which things my partner thinks is ok to be honest about, and what things they would be ok to lie about. Would my partner provide a list, or set of circumstances? See, i'm just not sure how i would be able to process that.... And to be blunt, if someone feels its ok to lie about certain things, i would worry what else could become "ok" to keep from me, or lie about to me.

agirl -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 1:02:43 PM)
quote: Mike posts in black font quote: ORIGINAL: breatheasone i hear what you are saying, there's where i get stuck though... Let's say i have a partner with your stance on honesty. i would be a little concerned about how to know which things my partner thinks is ok to be honest about, and what things they would be ok to lie about. Would my partner provide a list, or set of circumstances? See, i'm just not sure how i would be able to process that.... And to be blunt, if someone feels its ok to lie about certain things, i would worry what else could become "ok" to keep from me, or lie about to me. What IS my stance on honesty? Being honest about the fact that I lie means that I'm a liar, therefore I might be lying about being honest about lying? Having known my owner for over 10 yrs I think we BOTH know each other rather well. He can work these these things out....lol Neither of us have ever made a single promise to each other about honesty* ....... it's just a redundant conversation. Either I trust what I know of him or I don't.......If I don't want to risk being with him because he hasn't made some declaration of fidelity, or honesty, or telling lies, then that's up to me. It's not as if he chased me down and pursuaded me to be with him with honeyed lips. I made my own assessment about those things based on knowing him as my best friend for years and years. Have you noticed how the * love, honour and obey .........and til death us do part* declarative promise works out in so many cases?...lol I have no idea what the future might bring , but I certainly won't spend much time worrying about whether he's going to hurt me with some dishonesty of some kind just because he's never declared * I'm always going to be honest with you. Neither of us need THAT type of security or reassurance. We seem to have managed quite well without it, for, well, as long as we've known each other. Everybody is different.....I'm not confused or insecure about these things. I just know* what I need to know about the bloke. agirl

breatheasone -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 1:36:07 PM)
It's cool that you are with someone that knows you so well, that can be very comforting. i'm also glad you are not confused, or insecure, that can really be a heavy burden to carry around. It really sounds like you are a good match with your partner, my Grandma used to tell me, "theres a lid for every jar." As i have gotten older i have seen a lot of truth in that statement.

AlexandraLynch -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 2:35:42 PM)
It is, however, possible that people can find that their marriage is stronger when one or the other has a secondary partner. Triads are not always the ideal thing. Sometimes in our own life my husband has has a girl and I have not had a secondary, or vice versa. Both of us are not willing to settle for someone just so that we will be "equal with" our primary partner, and it is the height of unfairness to my slave to tell him, "Oh, my husband broke up with his girl, so you and I have to break up, sorry." Neither are either of us willing to go to bed with someone who we're just friends with to make our partner happy. That's silly. I don't need to be in a triad with every partner he has any more than I need to enjoy the same sort of movies he enjoys. We've made it twenty years, so I'm pretty sure we're doing something right. (grin)

LafayetteLady -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 2:49:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl What IS my stance on honesty? Being honest about the fact that I lie means that I'm a liar, therefore I might be lying about being honest about lying? Having known my owner for over 10 yrs I think we BOTH know each other rather well. He can work these these things out....lol Neither of us have ever made a single promise to each other about honesty* ....... it's just a redundant conversation. Either I trust what I know of him or I don't.......If I don't want to risk being with him because he hasn't made some declaration of fidelity, or honesty, or telling lies, then that's up to me. It's not as if he chased me down and pursuaded me to be with him with honeyed lips. I made my own assessment about those things based on knowing him as my best friend for years and years. Have you noticed how the * love, honour and obey .........and til death us do part* declarative promise works out in so many cases?...lol I have no idea what the future might bring , but I certainly won't spend much time worrying about whether he's going to hurt me with some dishonesty of some kind just because he's never declared * I'm always going to be honest with you. Neither of us need THAT type of security or reassurance. We seem to have managed quite well without it, for, well, as long as we've known each other. Everybody is different.....I'm not confused or insecure about these things. I just know* what I need to know about the bloke. agirl [/font][/size] But I would say that it is a reasonable assumption that you expect those things from him and he from you. The point isn't that people should necessarily enter into what are typically vanilla marriages with discussions of fidelity. In the vanilla world, we all know that if you are getting married, the unspoken expectation is fidelity and honesty. For those who are going to go about it differently and openly, they do have that discussion. There is a huge difference between "understanding" why someone would cheat and "condoning" the behavior.

agirl -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:17:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady quote: ORIGINAL: agirl What IS my stance on honesty? Being honest about the fact that I lie means that I'm a liar, therefore I might be lying about being honest about lying? Having known my owner for over 10 yrs I think we BOTH know each other rather well. He can work these these things out....lol Neither of us have ever made a single promise to each other about honesty* ....... it's just a redundant conversation. Either I trust what I know of him or I don't.......If I don't want to risk being with him because he hasn't made some declaration of fidelity, or honesty, or telling lies, then that's up to me. It's not as if he chased me down and pursuaded me to be with him with honeyed lips. I made my own assessment about those things based on knowing him as my best friend for years and years. Have you noticed how the * love, honour and obey .........and til death us do part* declarative promise works out in so many cases?...lol I have no idea what the future might bring , but I certainly won't spend much time worrying about whether he's going to hurt me with some dishonesty of some kind just because he's never declared * I'm always going to be honest with you. Neither of us need THAT type of security or reassurance. We seem to have managed quite well without it, for, well, as long as we've known each other. Everybody is different.....I'm not confused or insecure about these things. I just know* what I need to know about the bloke. agirl But I would say that it is a reasonable assumption that you expect those things from him and he from you. The point isn't that people should necessarily enter into what are typically vanilla marriages with discussions of fidelity. In the vanilla world, we all know that if you are getting married, the unspoken expectation is fidelity and honesty. For those who are going to go about it differently and openly, they do have that discussion. There is a huge difference between "understanding" why someone would cheat and "condoning" the behavior. I disagree. In vanilla marriages it spoken only too loudly with the keep thyself only unto her/him bit. I also disagree that people going about it differently...(which means what , exactly?).....makes much difference. It's still just people being together. We are incredibly open ...we don't need to talk it , we've just been it and done it. What would I gain from asking him if he would always be honest with me? I think it'd be a bit insulting actually. agirl

Prinsexx -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:31:12 PM)
I'm sorry..this thread is very long and i haven't read it all. So apologies to come in at left of field. Marriage is marriage...my definition is that it is at the very least a civily witnessed arrangement usually inferring some sort of promise on a monogamous basis at least for those two people getting married. Marrieds can be within or without the lifestyle? But what I can't stomach is the type that fills out a profile say here (and on fet and alt also let's say) and forgets that he is married??? On all three sites? Four million years of evolution leading to a faulty memory? Wht kind of peson forgets they are still married? Just askin..... PS hope he's reading this it might just jog his evolution.

lovingpet -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:39:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet ~FR~ I am coming in waaaaaaay late to the party on this one and didn't take time to read all the ruckus, so I have no idea where we are in this conversation. I am one of those married people with an uninvolved spouse. It isn't like we didn't try. I am switch so we've tried him in the dominant position and the submissive position. He doesn't take well to having his life ordered for him (at least not in such an obvious fashion) and he doesn't have the personality traits necessary for a dominant partner for me. I also enjoy S/m on both sides. He didn't like receiving pain. It was very harmful to him mentally to inflict pain upon me. He usually got into it at the time, but morning regrets in the form of marks and bruises didn't set well with him at all. We agreed it really didn't work for us to share this with each other. We are basically vanilla with a few twists thrown it that will become clear later. With his blessing, I searched/am searching for partners that are able to step into those positions. We both kind of figured it would be an itch I'd like to have scratched on occasion and these folks would just be close friends of ours with play priveleges. All that changed when my dominant partner got hold of me. There was a connection very similar in a lot of ways to what my husband and I share, different but similar, and he was able to hit all the right buttons when it came to my submissive desires. After one session, it was painfully clear that part time and just special friends wasn't going to cut it. My husband and I have had to enter into a lot of deep emotional and relationship water to find a resolution that is both nurturing of me and my needs and fair to him. I say I am in a reluctant poly situation because I never really wanted to be nonmonogamous. It just happened that way. Life is funny like that. We have all determined the best way is for us to share our entire lives together. We will all be moving in a few months to make that a reality. It is the way that seems right for us. It may not be right for others. My biggest concerns all along the way were honoring the needs and emotions of both these men. I didn't want to disrespect the relationship either of them have with me nor did I want to use anyone. I think it is fair to say that there are some married folks out there that do not need to stoop to deception and usury to meet their bdsm desires. Many do take the low road and I really find it distasteful. After all the hard work that I put in to keeping myself above board and working out the difficulties inherent to taking the hard road, I really don't appreciate what I perceive as laziness in others. My way isn't the way for everyone, but I don't think enough can be said for integrity. It is a trait I value highly. I do my best to display it as well. I never could have expected to be in the position I am in a million years. It isn't the way my storybook was supposed to go. I have had to abandon the fiction for the reality and work within it. I am sure my husband and, perhaps, my partner feel much the same. This isn't what anyone signed on for, but it is what we've got. We will do our best to make it something beautiful. lovingpet Your way may not be for everyone, but maybe it should be. You had needs, and the first person you went to was your spouse. You tried very hard, in hopes that he would be him who could satisy those needs, When that didn't work, you discussed and jointly agreed on getting another. You at no time attempted to lie or deceive your spouse. You had his support. This is the way it should be done. From where I sit, you did everything right and nothing wrong. and seems to be working. [sm=thanks.gif]

Lockit -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:39:34 PM)
I wasn't aware that knuckleheads evolved! Well damn... learn something new every day! [;)]

lovingpet -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:43:20 PM)
Addressed toward those upholding honesty and fidelity... which I believe I have always kept and still do possess in my relationship, do you believe that a shift in the marriage dyanmics such as what I have had is acceptable? Is that still fidelity? I am confused about how anyone can possibly cover all the contingencies of what if prior to marrying. There are a lot of life experiences and attendant perspective changes over a lifetime. How does one deal with those if only the pre existing, previously agreed upon rules can ever apply? lovingpet

breatheasone -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:46:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet Addressed toward those upholding honesty and fidelity... which I believe I have always kept and still do possess in my relationship, do you believe that a shift in the marriage dyanmics such as what I have had is acceptable? Is that still fidelity? I am confused about how anyone can possibly cover all the contingencies of what if prior to marrying. There are a lot of life experiences and attendant perspective changes over a lifetime. How does one deal with those if only the pre existing, previously agreed upon rules can ever apply? lovingpet Lovingpet, as long as all parties are in agreement and on the same page, and no one is being lied to, or cheated on, then yes. To me, anything is "in bounds" as long as its honestly talked about and dealt with.

Lockit -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:48:13 PM)
I think we can re-evaluate what is going on in a relationship and adjust many things without being unfair to one another or hurting each other. Some can adjust; some cannot. I know I have in different relationships and things changed. We invited other's in... with our agreements... went poly and all was well as long as we were being honest with one another. My problem isn't in evolving or changing things in a relationship... but in deception within a relationship and not working out whatever issues there might be. As long as you show concern, respect and love... whatever you do and agree to is just fine!

Prinsexx -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:48:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit I wasn't aware that knuckleheads evolved! Well damn... learn something new every day! [;)] Yes it's called boil in the bag marrow bone jelly.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:50:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agirl *I disagree. In vanilla marriages it spoken only too loudly with the keep thyself only unto her/him * bit.** Here in the states, I have not heard that phrase in a wedding ceremony in quite some time. Also the "love, honor and obey" and been altered to "love, honor and cherish" Further, many couples write their own vows. So no it isn't spoken loudly. While we're at it, when the marriage proposal is made, none of those terms are spoken (usually). So yes it is IMPLIED that marriage will mean to most, monogamous relationship. quote: ORIGINAL: agirl I also disagree that people going about it differently...(which means what , exactly?).....makes much difference. It's still just people being together. I'm speaking of people who are polygamous or where the partners might have chosen even before marriage that they wanted to be swingers. The point is that for centuries, a committed relationship has also meant that the people involved would be monogamous. For those who have chosen to be otherwise, using the excuse of "well we never discussed whether or not we would have sex with other people" is pretty much a bunch of bullshit. If one of the parties knows at the onset they wish for that kind of relationship, they should be honest with their partner about it. Likewise, when one comes to the conclusion midway through they want that, they owe their partner that honesty. quote: ORIGINAL: agirl We are incredibly open ...we don't need to talk it , we've just been it and done it. What would I gain from asking him if he would always be honest with me? I think it'd be a bit insulting actually. agirl I'm not quite sure why you feel that anyone has implied you and he should have that talk. It is obviously something you learned about each other a long time ago. But going back the ten or so years when you first met, would it have been an odd question to ask? I don't think so much depending on the conversations that were taking place.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 3:56:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet Addressed toward those upholding honesty and fidelity... which I believe I have always kept and still do possess in my relationship, do you believe that a shift in the marriage dyanmics such as what I have had is acceptable? Is that still fidelity? I am confused about how anyone can possibly cover all the contingencies of what if prior to marrying. There are a lot of life experiences and attendant perspective changes over a lifetime. How does one deal with those if only the pre existing, previously agreed upon rules can ever apply? lovingpet You and your husband made a decision that a "shift" was needed. While you may have sorted some of the issues out in your head before you spoke to him, from what you have said, nothing was done until the discussion was had. Now some people might say that you are not faithful to your marriage. I believe you were. To me, the infidelity that everyone here is discussing is the kind that involves deceit. For those who found something lacking and then went and had that difficult discussion with their spouse (and I can't imagine starting that converstaion was easy) and came to an agreement of how to move forward, I think it is wonderful that has happened. It doesn't mean that I would ever be able to do it (I don't think I could share my partner), but I don't feel it is wrong for people who choose that route. What I think is wrong, and will always think is wrong is for people to be deceitful to their partner in order to get what they want.

lovingpet -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/8/2010 4:03:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady What I think is wrong, and will always think is wrong is for people to be deceitful to their partner in order to get what they want. Thanks for the clarification folks. I was pretty sure I was following, but I can get all muttonheaded on occasion. As for the quote above, I couldn't agree more...especially as someone who has done it in the (I believe) right and hard way. To me, it would bring up the question of trust in such a way that I couldn't really ever overcome it as the "other woman". Even in a person that seems otherwise absolutely full of honor and integrity, this issue would undermine the whole thing for me and negatively impact my ability to bond with that person. lovingpet

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