RE: Married People and the Lifestyle

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greeneyedreamer -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 12:25:43 PM)
All in all, it is just an individual who has the right to decide what is right or wrong for them. It is our own internal moral code we need to conduct. I could go on and on about an abortion comparison but you get the idea. Long periods w/o sex aren't a good reason, but possibly long periods without emotional intimacy or love are. It's up to each person how to proceed. Not my job or yours to decide I say. I can choose or not choose to be in a relationship like that. It's all choice. (We also won't discuss the amount of MONEY involved in many people's marriage... we all know how that is a bitch to divide lol )

slaveluci -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 12:25:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit ... but once a cheater... once a cheater. There is NOTHING that says someone who cheats will always do it again. That is just something people say to convince themselves they should dump the "cheater" right away without trying to work through deeper issues..........luci

slaveluci -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 12:28:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail luci, if you want to make it look right you can go to my profile, gold at top of page in this forum, slosh around until you find your signature line, and right above it is a button that says PGD code...poke the button, it will show you all the sexy shit you can do here, and print out the pages for handy reference. GeekMaster [sm=flowers.gif] Thank you, sweet Geekmaster! luci

Lockit -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 12:33:25 PM)
No... I found those that I did try to make it work with... who had cheated, repeated. It isn't an easy out of anything. I am one who does go into the deep everythings in a relationship. However, I did find in my own experience that those that cheated were more likely to run and not deal with issues that could have been dealt with... far faster and easier than I ever would. Blaming the one who doesn't allow for cheating, who has been cheated on and learned a thing or two and takes a stand in their personal relationships... for not forgiving is an easy go at them... the thing is.. I did try to make a go of it for different reasons each time. I believe in working on issues in a relationship... however, I no longer believe in working things out with a cheater who took the easy way out first. And I will not take the blame for actions of another, who failed or made a mistake and expects me to overcome it.

slaveluci -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 12:37:36 PM)
All very valid points from someone who has obviously been there and done that, huh? It sounds like you definitely did try to work things out and, at this point in your life, have simply decided that's not the way to go. I can certainly respect that. I just get worn out with those who scream "cheater, cheater" at the first sign of anything and act as if it's the most unforgivable thing that can ever happen in EVERY relationship. It just ain't so for all couples. It definitely works differently for all of us and I just wish that some of the rabid anti-cheating group could see that[:)] luci

LadyPact -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 1:08:35 PM)
Happy New Year, luci. Would you mind defining what you are calling 'the first sign of anything'? Thank you.

slaveluci -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 1:25:57 PM)
I don't have a formal definition, LadyPact. I guess I was just being a bit flippant. But, I guess, if I had to pin it down, it means to me the idea that some folks go absolutely batshit over things that others don't even consider cheating. I don't advocate dishonesty and sneaking around. That's not the path to take in any healthy relationship. I just don't advocate the other extreme, either, which is being so hyper-vigilant and overly sensitive to ANYTHING that could be construed/misconstrued as "cheating." And, to take it a step further, when there actually IS something that happens that's considered cheating, so many times it just means immediately ending the communication/relationship. We hear that around so much I just start tuning it out. Yeah, fine, go ahead...dump the cheatin' scumbug right now....no other details needed[8\|] I certainly understand what folks are saying and many valid and understandable points have been made. I just happen to have one that's slightly different and doesn't usually get a lot of discussion. Wish I had a more definitive answer to your question.......luci

LadyPact -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 1:55:22 PM)
Thank you, luci. That actually does address My question and it was something ranja and I were going back and forth discussing earlier. I'm thinking you meant the other things that some folks interpret as cheating, such as online/cyber sex (fits some people's definition and not others) or porn (again, different people, different views). That part is a bit murky and really hard to determine where someone stands on that unless you know them. I almost think I'm going to regret saying this next part, but it almost makes Me a bit sad on My side of the screen that some partners out there don't seem to know each other well enough to have some kind of handle on all of these issues. I wish there were good answers out there that would be the magic formula for everyone. I wish some didn't have the fear about honestly communicating with that person who is sharing their life with them. I'm not saying that to sound condesending. What I'm saying is that, for folks who often come here and swear up and down by communication, it seems that some folks either don't have that ability or liberty.

slaveluci -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/1/2010 2:01:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Thank you, luci. That actually does address My question and it was something ranja and I were going back and forth discussing earlier. I'm thinking you meant the other things that some folks interpret as cheating, such as online/cyber sex (fits some people's definition and not others) or porn (again, different people, different views). That part is a bit murky and really hard to determine where someone stands on that unless you know them. I almost think I'm going to regret saying this next part, but it almost makes Me a bit sad on My side of the screen that some partners out there don't seem to know each other well enough to have some kind of handle on all of these issues. I wish there were good answers out there that would be the magic formula for everyone. I wish some didn't have the fear about honestly communicating with that person who is sharing their life with them. I'm not saying that to sound condesending. What I'm saying is that, for folks who often come here and swear up and down by communication, it seems that some folks either don't have that ability or liberty. Very well said and totally agreed[:)] luci

ranja -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/2/2010 4:39:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I almost think I'm going to regret saying this next part, but it almost makes Me a bit sad on My side of the screen that some partners out there don't seem to know each other well enough to have some kind of handle on all of these issues. I wish there were good answers out there that would be the magic formula for everyone. I wish some didn't have the fear about honestly communicating with that person who is sharing their life with them. I'm not saying that to sound condesending. What I'm saying is that, for folks who often come here and swear up and down by communication, it seems that some folks either don't have that ability or liberty. LadyPact, thank you... for some people it is a temporary break down of communication or lack of feeling in love, even though the breakdown might last a decade... some people do find their way back to eachother... and are stronger for it. so to say that total honesty always ever is a must, or a cheater is always to be ditched is NOT the one and only way to go about things... i agree that ideally there never is a breakdown of anything at all... but there are so many reasons why a person might clam up and become unreachable and hard.... and when angry it is quite often the easiest option to walk away and leave the other but it is not necessarily the best course of action... one can dump the relationship, blame the other and move on without ever having to face ones own part in the mess... only to get stuck with the next cheater... and the next... i can see extreme difficulties if cheating happens and is found out about within the first year or five of being together... as it is so difficult to get over that i would presume indeed many do not recover if there is not enough good history together to draw from. and i am sorry to hear of your experiences Lockit... i have been there too... and that relationship did not survive either... i know how it hurts.

Acer49 -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/2/2010 7:39:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ranja quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Sorry, it's not an accident. I will gladly echo what Wisdom has said in post #137. Except for cases of rape, sex is a conscious choice. Whatever else is going on in the relationship doesn't change the fact that the person is making a deliberate decision to do what they are doing. I will agree with you that what constitutes cheating does vary depending on personal opinion. Yes, some people see viewing porn as cheating. I'd also tend to think that emotional attachment of a romantic nature to an additional person could be viewed as cheating if the person you're married to is monogamous. Cyber sex is another area that I think could fall into this category. What I use as a general rule about this is, if you feel that it's something that you have to hide from your spouse, you probably know your spouse well enough that THEY think it's cheating. That's the person who could be potentially harmed by whatever it is that's being done in the first place. Some people never cheat... not because they never wanted to but rather because the opportunity never presented itself... Other people are very disciplined and can resist temptation no matter what... But there are other people who might lose sight of what should be of most importance and find themselves taking a liberty that indeed they should perhaps not have taken... some people divorce their partner because they can not forgive them for cheating and once time to heal their wounds passes, they regret it and wonder if things would not have been better if they would have worked things out... Broken trust is not rebuildable to an acceptible level that warrants contuning a relationship with a cheater. There is nothing to work out Some people even invite being cheated on and being lied to because they are not open at all to their partners needs... still the partner that does the cheating has no intention of leaving the marriage... and might bank on the fact that the shit does not necessarily need to hit the fan... it is not up to me to judge them Only a complete fool would bank on such a possibility or to think that they would ever be alllowed in one's house, much less, one's bed ever again Though i do think people who are selfish enough to cut of their nose inspite of their own face and people who can not forgive someone they are supposed to love are short changing themselves. loved, past tense, for once one cheats, they have disrepected that love, stomped on it, shedded it, spit on it and totally destroyed it. I can't see how saying "Gee, I am sorry, I won't do it again" is going to ever come close to to showing enough remorse that anyone would ever need to worry about the face or their nose or any other part of their anatomy I can forgive the fact that you went out and screwed Joe Blow or Suzi Q, but I can not forget the fact that you went behing my back and destroyed my trust to do it As the old saying goes, "Screw me once, shame on you, Screw me twice, shame one me"

Acer49 -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/2/2010 7:51:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveluci quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit ... but once a cheater... once a cheater. There is NOTHING that says someone who cheats will always do it again. That is just something people say to convince themselves they should dump the "cheater" right away without trying to work through deeper issues..........luci quote: once a cheater. There is NOTHING that says someone who cheats will always do it again. That is just something people say to convince themselves they should dump the "cheater" right away without trying to work through deeper issues..........luci And there is no guarantee he/she won't either. Bigger issues? There are none bigger than trust or honesty. Everytime that phone rings you will wonder, every time they are late you will wonder, everytime they work late, have a business meeting or business trip you will wonder. No relationship can withstand all that self doubt.

ranja -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/2/2010 8:24:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 I can forgive the fact that you went out and screwed Joe Blow or Suzi Q, but I can not forget the fact that you went behing my back and destroyed my trust to do it As the old saying goes, "Screw me once, shame on you, Screw me twice, shame one me" Mr Acer you sound quite uppity about this subject... It seems to me that you would not beable to forgive your partner if they cheat or lie or both... so indeed i hope you will never find out about any of that... in my experience the people who are most uppity about the faithful and trust issue have either been cheated on and still hurt because of it... or they are the most likely to cheat and/or be less than truthful themselves... which are you?

LadyPact -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/2/2010 9:20:29 AM)
To My knowledge, ranja, I've never been cheated on. I've never cheated on anyone else. I don't think you are seeing this in the same context that some of us do. I'm going to try to give you a hypothetical so that you will. I want you to imagine playing with your partner. Either by command or design, you are bound to a bed. Prior to the scene, you discussed your hard limits. By agreement, it is to be a good, loving, wonderful time for both of you, filled with wonderful sensations, shared as something that will enhance your bond. During the play, you are receiving the sensations. Bound, blindfolded, in your utter happiness. Content that your partner is trustworthy, and adhering to the mutual negotiations you had prior to the beginning. OUT OF NOWHERE, HE CHANGES THE RULES AND CUTS YOUR FINGER OFF!!!!!!! You didn't consent to it. This was not something you agreed to. It was something your partner felt he needed to do at the time to fulfill his desires. The wound will heal, but you will now live without that piece of yourself. It will never grow back. Never again will it be the way it was. I'm betting the first thing that you will say in reply is that it isn't like that, but it really is. The only difference is that it's on an emotional, rather than a physical one. When you break a bond of trust, you take something away from a person inside that might heal, but it will never entirely grow back.

wisdomtogive -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/2/2010 9:47:33 AM)
Wonderful analogy, Lady Pact I would like to add some of my thoughts. Am i really too one side, yes I am. Yes, people forgive and continue in a relationship, but they don't forget. I have talked to many that after a decade or more they still have the fear if their mate is cheating. Trust is never rebuilt as it was prior. If what i say makes someone stop before they act, then i have done good. Cheating goes so beyond just the 2 of you. Most likely the other one,,one the person is cheating with, will down the road wonder is the same..are they seeing someone else? Yes people try to stay for their children, as my late husband tried for the sake of their son. When it didn't work, because she repeated the behavior with yet another, he was left crippled inside. Do you know how hard it is to build a person self-worth back up after that. Who ever they become involved with, they will automatically not trust them, even if they want too and see no reason to not. That fear is carried over to the next relationship, and the new partner has a whole new issue to deal with besides the normal adjustments of a marriage. So yes cheating can be viewed in many ways, but many do not want to take responsibility for the damage done to their spouse, and anyone entering their life afterwards. The children are better off when both parents stick it out? Hardly, try talking to some who came from that type of household. They the majority of the time become an adult child trying to sooth the parent left at home. Cheating holds no benefits and destroys to many lifes, even those not in the picture yet.

LadyPact -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/2/2010 10:02:42 AM)
Thank you, wisdom. As I've said before, I don't have this personal experience. I can only imagine and empathize. The analogy is what I think it would feel like to Me. I would have to think that I would always wonder. There would always be this little part of doubt inside of Me. It would be a part carved out of My soul that could not be replaced. I would never be My whole self. That piece missing that if I went to touch it, I'd like to imagine it there, but it just wouldn't be. When a crystal is broken, it can be put back together. In many ways, it may appear like it originally was. But if you examine it deeply, the flaws are still seen. The microscopic cracks are still visible. It will never be what it once was, even if it looks the same on the surface. Anyone who wants to fool themselves believing the entire crystal is in tact, does not realize that, to break anything, even the tallest mountain, begins with the smallest break in the foundation.

Acer49 -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/3/2010 9:13:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ranja quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 I can forgive the fact that you went out and screwed Joe Blow or Suzi Q, but I can not forget the fact that you went behing my back and destroyed my trust to do it As the old saying goes, "Screw me once, shame on you, Screw me twice, shame one me" Mr Acer you sound quite uppity about this subject... It seems to me that you would not beable to forgive your partner if they cheat or lie or both... so indeed i hope you will never find out about any of that... in my experience the people who are most uppity about the faithful and trust issue have either been cheated on and still hurt because of it... or they are the most likely to cheat and/or be less than truthful themselves... which are you? If by uppity you mean that you will find it impossible to change my opinion on this matter, you would be correct. I believe you would be hard pressed to find anyone that could justify lying and cheating on their innocent partner. Forgiveness is the easy part. It is the forgetting part that is nearly impossible. Cheating is not equated to over drawing the checking account. It is a conscious effort to decide to cheat, you don't just accidently cheat. I suppose I could put someone in lifelong chasity, however, I am afraid that it would be a very painful and constant reminder of a partner's betrayal. I am not sure that is something one could live with. You may be able to lock up the body, you can't however lock up the desire to cheat. I do not believe one's opinions should be based on personal involvment of the issue. Whether or not I was ever cheated on has no bearing on my opinion of it. Opinions stand or fall on their own merits. And yes, while I was out trying to serve my country, she was out trying to do the country. While I pride myself in being able to view situations in a purly logical manner, this betrayal did spill into other relationships. This is probably the one thing that angers me the most, not that she cheated on me, but that she removed my ability to be able to give my unconditional trust to another for a very long time.

slaveluci -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/3/2010 10:08:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 And there is no guarantee he/she won't either. Nope, sure isn't. There's no guarantee you've got a next breath either, is there? Fact is, there is no guarantee of ANYTHING in life. quote: Bigger issues? There are none bigger than trust or honesty. For you. I'd say most others would also agree. Trust and honesty are wonderful. Sometimes there are lapses. People are human and they do fail. To me, it so often comes down to what kind of lapses, how often, etc. We all have standards and specifics as to what we will accept, forgive, etc. They do vary from relationship to relationship. quote: Everytime that phone rings you will wonder, every time they are late you will wonder, everytime they work late, have a business meeting or business trip you will wonder. No relationship can withstand all that self doubt. I would think it would be awful to attempt to. As for me, that is one of the virtues of an open relationship. If you're not constantly obsessing about your partner being involved with someone else, you can spend your time enjoying the relationship the two of you share. I have been cheated on before and it hurt. Was it the worst thing ever done to me? Hardly. I've resolved that it's not something that is ever going to absorb the energy from me that it did in the past. Being in a loving, committed relationship where "cheating" isn't even a possibility because of the dynamic we share has been a better way to go.....................luci

ranja -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/4/2010 2:09:01 AM)
LadyPact... thank you for your hypothetical situation I indeed disagree... cutting off a finger is not the same kind of wound as an emotional one... because indeed an emotional wound about cheating CAN heal and an amputation usually is permanent... even if the relationship where the cheating happened is broken... is the 'honest person' one now dammed forever and going to distrust anybody else and so making prophecies that full fill themselves? and yes, indeed some are going to be like that, not all though... Trust CAN come back, it is difficult... and i agree it might seem impossible, but it is not impossible. and no people generally do not forget... that is the point... to NOT forget and to get OVER it i would agree that it is just as hurtful if for instance i was tied up and blindfolded totally trusting Him that we had agreed to soft sensory play but instead He takes me up the ass entirely unprepared, no lube, with an enormous big thing... very hurtful because i was unprepared... a total shock as i did not see it coming because of the blindfold... so obviously a total breach of trust... i would be hurting emotionally and physically... we would sure have a big do about it... i see this as a very good comparison... and again... for some people something that will spell the end of the relationship... not necessarily for everybody though... and i say not NECESSARILY... i mean, i am NOT certain how i will respond, that is my whole point... (indeed if He fancies doing this... maybe He better finds another who allows Him this... make sure He covers His tracks and leaves me totally out of it) i agree that cheating is a total shitty thing to find out about and experience the after effects and also that many people will not survive as a couple facing a problem like that... but i disagree that NOBODY can get over problems like that... i also disagree that none should be given a second chance... i also disagree that once a cheater is always a cheater... i also disagree that cheating is the worst thing a person can do to another (ETA i think cutting of a finger is worse)... and i disagree that a cheater is always the one who is MOST in the wrong.... and i definitely disagree to make up your mind before hand about a hypothetical situation in which you tell your most loved person that you will dump them... and i disagree that some people just damn other people for it as a blanket rule. It seems very odd to me that someone would damn people without knowing any personal details... that is just my opinion. That is also what i dislike about your attitude Acer... i find it short sighted I saw a program about Elvis the other day... the KING of cheats? He fucked about so much that Priscilla eventually had to get a divorce... (her main reason seemed to be because she needed a life of her own and Elvis did not believe much in women having any life really... no matter how much he was charmed by them) Unfortunately he was too stubborn to see reason... i believe Priscilla would have gone back to him if he would have adjusted his attitude... and if he would not have got ridiculously fat and accidentally killed himself instead... the love between them was extremely big... Elvis (domly as he was) was too insecure and stubborn for his own good... was he a total twat that deserved what he got? is there no understanding for him? I do believe that there is a massive difference between a person like Elvis who just doesn't seem to be able to help themselves and basically fuck anything they can, and people that stumble into this seedy situation because of an accident waiting to happen... as was my point a few pages back... not all cheaters are actually actively wanting this scenario. To suggest that anybody who even feels like cheating should either immediately say this to their partner or file for divorce is just so totally unrealistic and silly

julietsierra -> RE: Married People and the Lifestyle (1/4/2010 3:14:45 AM)
How two people weather crises is more indicative of their relationship than to have never been tested at all. It's pretty simple to say "I trust him/her" when you've never had reason not to. However, it's significantly more difficult and says something about the depth of the relationship when someone can say "I trust him/her" (and mean it) once they've had reason not to. In the end, once cheated upon, it's up to that person to determine what they can and can not live with - and there's no crime in choosing either option. However, it'd be real nice if those doing the cheating would also take it upon themselves to say "I don't want to live the rest of my life knowing I cheated on him/her," and recognize that while the ability to weather crises is admirable, so too is the ability to resist temptation. juliet

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