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RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 5:14:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Gotta tell ya Panda... i have never used that argument, nor have i ever heard of that argument Brain is talking about.

_____________________________

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 6:50:38 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		The last time I remember discussing this people said there were not any scientists or physicists who declared there is not a God. I knew that wasn't true because I had seen a video of them all talking together about how God does not exist. In any case, I found one of them giving this lecture about this topic so I started this thread. So what's really eye-opening to me is you guys are attacking me for discussing this ' boring' subject but nobody is commenting on what this scientist had to say about God or Gods nonexistence. I think he is certain there is no such thing as God and he is confident it's indisputable. And that's why you guys are attacking me and not addressing what the professor said.

You are actually the person who caused me to be looking for this meeting where they were altogether talking about how there is no such thing as God.

Get over myself, that's funny. LMAO. Yes of course, it's all about me, nothing the professor said is important.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I just know that I need to do what I think is right...

Oh fuck, Brain, get over yourself. Everybody does what they think is right, it's what the people you rant against are doing, and when it's all just more of the same old me and my group are right, you and your group are wrong, and the only real problem is you damn heathen deniers, trust me there isn't anything "right" about it.

K.




(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 7:19:14 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Oh, don't lump me into this crowd.

Brain's off on his own. And I'm as tired of it as the rest of you.

I have to think that's how many people who believe in God (and many Christians) must feel when the excesses of whack job fanatics are held up as exemplars of "believers" (or of Christianity and "Christians" as a whole). Whether their targets are religious or political, self-righteous zealots promoting phantasmagorical stereotypes further nobody's well-being.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/25/2009 7:44:06 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 7:44:20 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

So the next time a creationist says to you that our Earth is positioned just right in our solar system and that God put it there so humans can live and survive on Earth. You can fire back with this video.


I'm reminded of that scene in "Meet Me In St. Louis" where the 4-year old girl says, "St. Louis is my favorite city. I'm so lucky to have been born in my favorite city!"

It's an easy argument to defeat without a video, because it simply makes no sense. It's an amazingly stupid argument. It's like saying, "Isn't it an incredible coincidence that fish can breathe underwater? Because otherwise they'd, like, drown!" Fish can breathe underwater because that's where they evolved. If we'd evolved on a different planet, we'd obviously be perfectly suited for whatever conditions prevail on that planet. Somewhere, at the bottom of a sea of liquid methane on a gas giant orbiting 3 billion miles from a white dwarf star, some giant eyeless amoeba who navigates by sonar and communicates with electromagnetic pulses is marveling at how fortunate it is that it's planet is 3 billion miles from it's star rather than 2 billion, because if it were only 2 billion miles away it would be too hot to support life. And probably calling it an unmistakable example of god's infinite wisdom.



I have on occasion tried to think of a way to make the argument for that position in a cogent manner and I have never come up with one so easily understood and straight forward as you have made.

A tip of the hat to you from me.

_____________________________

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 8:03:57 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

So the next time a creationist says to you that our Earth is positioned just right in our solar system and that God put it there so humans can live and survive on Earth. You can fire back with this video.
You know, I am 50 years old, and in my half century I have lived all over the world and met people of damn near every faith imaginable....and never once has a creationist ever tried to convince me of anything unless I asked them their views....in fact the only people who have tried to convert me are atheists...Even the mormons who took me on a day trip with a bunch of their missionaries never once tried to sway me. So what is it about you atheists that drives you to proseletyze so vehemenantly...what gives?


Then I would say your one lucky soul.  Having grown up with fundamentalist till I could bolt and my wife's family being on the far Christian right  I have always been aware of the sledgehammer they pound with.  I've never had an atheist harass me on a street corner, leave literature on my windshield, or come knocking on my door.  

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RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 8:12:09 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Nor have i had a believer do these things. In fact, i never had a believer tell me that i am stupid, pathetic, crazy, ect. But i have had lots of atheists do this... and on these boards.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 9:04:50 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Then I would say your one lucky soul. Having grown up with fundamentalist till I could bolt and my wife's family being on the far Christian right I have always been aware of the sledgehammer they pound with. I've never had an atheist harass me on a street corner, leave literature on my windshield, or come knocking on my door.

Well I guess it varies. I live in the Heartland. But it's only maybe twice a year that someone knocks on my door to let me know they are there if I ever want to talk, and to assure me of a welcome if I might ever care to attend services. They are uniformly pleasant, exceedingly polite, and they always thank me for my time regardless of whether or not I accept their literature. I encountered more bell-ringers in New York City than here. They would get somebody to buzz them in, then go through the whole building. And some of them were like glue. You had to close the door in their face to get rid of them.

It does have an upside, though. Mormon girls are the best. They remind me of why we used to like to hang out around all-girl Catholic schools when I was younger. But I digress....

K.

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 10:25:25 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

nothing the professor said is important.
Bingo!! He's giving his opinion on a topic that most of us are sick of, a topic with no immediate relevance, a topic you post about on an almost weekly basis. We have discussed this ad nauseum, if  there were some topical relevance to the post, say some connection to something in the news or perhaps some actual threat to somebody's freedom then we would welcome the post.

But this thread has none of that, it is effectively an atheist mass...a bunch of atheists have paid money to hear some other atheist tell them they are right...when you look at it that way its not that different from church now is it.

And we are not attacking you, nobody has attacked you, you have done the attacking (you called all religious people liars). What we have done is inform you that we are sick to death of your endless atheist proselytizing & your attempts to pick yet another fight. We know your views on this subject, and showing us how many "important" people agree with you does nothing to persuade those who disagree with you. It does, however, make some of us wonder why you are so insecure in your beliefs, why do you feel the need to trumpet your beliefs incessantly? Why do you feel the need to belittle those who hold opposite beliefs?

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 11:06:42 AM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		I just want to see an example of an engineer actually designing an entertainment complex that isn't in the middle of a sewage (or waste) system. Let me qualify that with one that would work. All kinds of un workable/ totally impractical things can be designed.

Brain simply does not understand the scientific method, at all. And does not understasnd Logic, at all. He replaced his religion with another. And he wants everyone to know the Good News.

Intellectuall capacity has nothing to do with science. Nor does admiration of an individual.

The discussion of whether atheism is a religion has happened several times on here. Brain is an example that it can in some cases be so.

I think if you cross into I know there is no God (or god), you have given up any right to claim that "science" or truth is the motivator for your thinking.

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I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

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RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 11:08:22 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I want the truth, whatever it is; God or no God. Besides, I thought we were allowed to talk about religion, or, a lack of it here. I’m not afraid of the truth whatever it is.

I don’t like being lied to and I just wanted to add that there isn't anything else out there, and I mean God.


The Known Universe - The Best of YouTube

http://bestofyoutube.com/story.php?title=the-known-universe



I just wanted to add this other article about Scientology in case some people have not seen it:

Scientology Founder Was Revealed As A Fake Over 30 Years Ago

Secret mission to expose L. Ron Hubbard as a fake - Times Online

The founder of Scientology, L..Ron Hubbard Was revealed as a fake, by British Diplomats over 3 decades ago.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6740831.ece





Ok, you "want the truth" and you don't like being "lied to" but you believe in that "global warming religion" crap?
Even after they've been exposed as liars and frauds!
I think someone needs an INTERVENTION!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 11:12:22 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

So the next time a creationist says to you that our Earth is positioned just right in our solar system and that God put it there so humans can live and survive on Earth. You can fire back with this video.


I'm reminded of that scene in "Meet Me In St. Louis" where the 4-year old girl says, "St. Louis is my favorite city. I'm so lucky to have been born in my favorite city!"

It's an easy argument to defeat without a video, because it simply makes no sense. It's an amazingly stupid argument. It's like saying, "Isn't it an incredible coincidence that fish can breathe underwater? Because otherwise they'd, like, drown!" Fish can breathe underwater because that's where they evolved. If we'd evolved on a different planet, we'd obviously be perfectly suited for whatever conditions prevail on that planet. Somewhere, at the bottom of a sea of liquid methane on a gas giant orbiting 3 billion miles from a white dwarf star, some giant eyeless amoeba who navigates by sonar and communicates with electromagnetic pulses is marveling at how fortunate it is that it's planet is 3 billion miles from it's star rather than 2 billion, because if it were only 2 billion miles away it would be too hot to support life. And probably calling it an unmistakable example of god's infinite wisdom.



I have on occasion tried to think of a way to make the argument for that position in a cogent manner and I have never come up with one so easily understood and straight forward as you have made.

A tip of the hat to you from me.


Why, thank you very much. I've had the same reaction to a number of your own posts. A very merry christmas to you and yours!


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 11:13:30 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Gotta tell ya Panda... i have never used that argument, nor have i ever heard of that argument Brain is talking about.


Well, it's not an argument I would expect you to make. It's too silly. But I've heard it offered up more than a few times over the years.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 11:59:18 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Nor have i had a believer do these things. In fact, i never had a believer tell me that i am stupid, pathetic, crazy, ect. But i have had lots of atheists do this... and on these boards.


I  am not speaking of message boards.  I am talking about real life.  Or maybe I just had the misfortune of working at a Christian television station for awhile.  For every good decent representative of God there were a dozen hate filled, slimy, disgusting snake oil salesmen.  I saw more than a few events were terrible things were said to people to make them see the light and convert from their evil ways.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 12:24:15 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline
quote:

I  am not speaking of message boards.  I am talking about real life.  Or maybe I just had the misfortune of working at a Christian television station for awhile.  For every good decent representative of God there were a dozen hate filled, slimy, disgusting snake oil salesmen.  I saw more than a few events were terrible things were said to people to make them see the light and convert from their evil ways
I guess its the company I keep...or maybe our canadian religious types are just more polite

_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 12:32:37 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Nor have i had a believer do these things. In fact, i never had a believer tell me that i am stupid, pathetic, crazy, ect. But i have had lots of atheists do this... and on these boards.


I  am not speaking of message boards.  I am talking about real life.  Or maybe I just had the misfortune of working at a Christian television station for awhile.  For every good decent representative of God there were a dozen hate filled, slimy, disgusting snake oil salesmen.  I saw more than a few events were terrible things were said to people to make them see the light and convert from their evil ways.



I get the same thing from almost every christian fundamentalist I know, and I finally got to the point where if one of them even starts, I just tell them, "You need to either shut up about your religion or don't ever talk to me about anything else again, period." They just won't take hints.

Still, that's something i can live with pretty easily. If they ever get intrusive or offensive, telling them to shut up solves the problem. The thing I can't get around so easily is the way fundamentalists intrude upon my life by trying to pass laws requiring me to live in accordance with their religious beliefs. Whenever the discussion turns to religious zealots intruding upon the lives of people who don't share their beliefs, that's always the first thing I think of. And that's the one that really gets a bug up my ass. The Old Testament is not referenced in any copy of the Constitution I've ever read.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 1:08:39 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain



I just wanted to add this other article about Scientology in case some people have not seen it:

Scientology Founder Was Revealed As A Fake Over 30 Years Ago

Secret mission to expose L. Ron Hubbard as a fake - Times Online

The founder of Scientology, L..Ron Hubbard Was revealed as a fake, by British Diplomats over 3 decades ago.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6740831.ece



You mean the British government really had to do anything to prove this guy as a fraud after he published this nonsense?


Scientology - Wikipedia

In the OT levels, Hubbard explains how to reverse the effects of past-life trauma patterns that supposedly extend millions of years into the past.[/link]

Among these advanced teachings is the story of [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu]Xenu (sometimes Xemu), introduced as the tyrant ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy." According to this story, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes.

The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 5:09:40 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I remember saying yesterday how I couldn't change the TV station without having something religious come on TV, whether it's a commercial or the news or a movie so I thought about it again today and maybe a better answer is society lying to me. Maybe it's because they want me to buy Christmas presents to stimulate the economy, who knows?




quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

You want truth as you see it.

BTW...

Who's lying to you?

If you do not believe in God, and hense not part of a Church, then you are not being lied to are you?

Curious though... the way you spelled God with a capital G.


(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 5:32:09 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain



I just wanted to add this other article about Scientology in case some people have not seen it:

Scientology Founder Was Revealed As A Fake Over 30 Years Ago

Secret mission to expose L. Ron Hubbard as a fake - Times Online

The founder of Scientology, L..Ron Hubbard Was revealed as a fake, by British Diplomats over 3 decades ago.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6740831.ece



You mean the British government really had to do anything to prove this guy as a fraud after he published this nonsense?


Scientology - Wikipedia

In the OT levels, Hubbard explains how to reverse the effects of past-life trauma patterns that supposedly extend millions of years into the past.[/link]

Among these advanced teachings is the story of [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu]Xenu (sometimes Xemu), introduced as the tyrant ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy." According to this story, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes.

The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects



Maybe I don't get your point... are you trying to suggest that there's something about this you find implausible?


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 5:37:27 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I am a bad guy because I tell the truth? I don't think so.

I'm the bad guy because I like new and interesting stories? I don't think so.

Prosecuting attorneys become defense attorneys to make more money and because too many citizens are wrongly convicted, especially minorities and the poor.

Your right about nonbelievers coming out of the closet, I will agree with you on that one. I believe more have to come out of the closet and explain why we are still believing 2000 year old fantasies when we did not have the science is ridiculous. ''Oh Lord, why hast thou forsaken me? '' Because I don't exist I can't help you.

If I start a thread it's because I find it interesting or I feel strongly about it.

I don't like criminal law but when I worked for a law firm I did some litigation and real estate law. I think legal work is tedious, too much dotting the I.'s and crossing the T.'s.

How about you start a interesting thread about something you feel strongly about. I feel strongly about religion because it consumed 90% of my life, not to mention my parents and my in-laws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

So the next time a creationist says to you that our Earth is positioned just right in our solar system and that God put it there so humans can live and survive on Earth. You can fire back with this video.
You know, I am 50 years old, and in my half century I have lived all over the world and met people of damn near every faith imaginable....and never once has a creationist ever tried to convince me of anything unless I asked them their views....in fact the only people who have tried to convert me are atheists...Even the mormons who took me on a day trip with a bunch of their missionaries never once tried to sway me. So what is it about you atheists that drives you to proseletyze so vehemenantly...what gives?


Damn, Arpig, you are just a kid.

What is going on, I think, is we non-believers are just coming out of the closet. The new sense of freedom is rather exhilerating. It is a passing thrill. We will get over it.

I agree with you. Brain is a bit too much. He can't get off the topic. His recurrent posts are making us non-believers out to be bad guys. I wish he would give it a rest. Time to show some maturity and conciliation, Brain. The place for debate on this topic is in the Courts. We all have to get along.

Your opinion is important and you are entitled to it. Perhaps you could use your intelligence and research skills to respond to threads for which you feel so strongly rather than begin new ones so frequently. Defence attornies are often more effective than prosecuting attornies. Give it a thought.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Neil Degrasse Tyson - Stupid Design - 12/25/2009 5:37:44 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Maybe I don't get your point... are you trying to suggest that there's something about this you find implausible?

Well for one thing, it's seriously out of date. Anybody reading these foums can plainly see that the Thetans have their own bodies now.

K.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 40
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