RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (Full Version)

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osf -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/28/2009 9:49:50 PM)

it depends on the depth of your need


the need isnt anything you do or anything that happens to you that is all just kink

the need is for structure




osf -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/28/2009 9:50:51 PM)

now realize im speaking from my personal experience, milage may varry




sweetsub1957 -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/28/2009 9:55:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

I agree with that.  It makes perfect sense.  Even vanillas should think things through before they jump in blind.


but for you as a sub the price is even greater, after all you want a person to whom you give authority

and he is going to have a mind of his own and his desires may not always be attuned to yours

You know, I do know that.  I'm a sub, but I'm an intelligent sub.  That's why I insist on getting to know Someone as a Person before jumping into anything.




osf -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/28/2009 9:57:35 PM)

not a bad idea

but explain get to know




kiinkerbell -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/28/2009 10:11:17 PM)

I agree with Sweetsub1957. One needs to get to know someone before they hand over any kind of control. If a Dominant assumes he has a nice lab or german shepard at the end of his leash, and its really cujo, whose fault is that? Or if a submissive type thinks she has the author of The Loving Dominant, holding her leash, and its more like Marquis de Sade, whose fault is that? Some things just need good old fashion time.




aninquisition -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/28/2009 10:11:49 PM)

"i want to dispel the myth of saint dom and strong independent submissive"

That should be,
"I want to make clear that 'saint dom' and 'strong independent submissive' are extremely rare."
Because I can think of personal examples of both.

For one, why does a saintly nature have to be separate from a dominating nature?  The desire to control is not innately evil.  There are plenty who desire to keep things within their realm of control in order to protect them.  The dominant who seeks to control his submissive, not to bring himself far more pleasure, but to ensure her betterment.  There are plenty of dominants assured of themselves to the point of feeling they know what is better for a submissive than the submissive does.  And yes, there are plenty of submissives who are far from knowing what is best for themselves.

Are some dominants self-serving?  Do some use their control to solely meet their own needs?  I might even relent that most are like that.  But the 'saintly' dominant is far from a myth.

Now, let's evaluate 'strong, independent submissive.'  When we look at the word, 'independent', I assume you don't mean too independent to pursue relationships to begin with.  Because that would just be redundant and ridiculous.  It would no longer have anything to do with romanticizing D/s relationships and everything to do with the simple fact that some people just don't need other people to be happy.

So, the said submissive can take care of themselves (that level of independence, I'm assuming) and is strong.  Why would they need a dominant?

So simple.  For many submissives, performing tasks for themselves is far from satisfying.  To the point of near self-negligence in some cases.  Whereas some submissives, if left to their own devices, would not bother with cooking dinners, even if they were master chefs.  Despite any amount of intelligence, they would not learn other languages, pursue secondary education, or obtain any new talents.  Despite any natural inclination towards health, they would not exercise or pursue sports.  Simply because...there's no one to do it for.

I speak from personal experience.  For myself, I hardly have the effort to pour cereal in a bowl.  For someone I admire and respect, I will make a three course meal, complete with elaborate presentation, and love every moment.  To me, the greatest joy is to use my strength, my intelligence, my questioning nature, and apply that to better someone else's life.  I wish to be nothing more than the most deadly weapon, in the hands of someone I view as the greatest general of all time, should you follow me in that rather 'romantic' metaphor.

That said...  Can everyone have their romantic ideal?  No.  They can't.  And, all political correctness and PG-13 crap aside, it's because not all of us are good enough to have what we want.  I'm not even certain I'm good enough for my 'romantic ideal.'

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.




sweetsub1957 -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/28/2009 10:15:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

but explain get to know

I want/need to know about:
1. The Man as a Person.
2. His relationship status. (I don't want to find out later, after
   we're involved, that He's got a vanilla wife somewhere.
   I won't be Someone's "dirty little secret.")
3. His vanilla and kink likes/dislikes and needs/wants.  (There's
   more to the kind of relationship I want than just kink and sex.) 
4. What He wants/needs out of the relationship.
5. What He is expecting from me.
and at the same time I will let Him know all of the above about myself.  Also:
6. I need to spend some time with Him in person to see if there
   is any chemistry in real time, since that's what I'm looking for.

I'm pretty thorough, after learning the hard way early on.  [;)]




MsMillgrove -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 12:51:52 AM)

Scroll back and read aninquisition's post again. It's her First post! Wow. Look forward to reading more of them!

[sm=applause.gif]




Aileen1968 -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 4:01:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

I rather like a romantic D/s relationship.  Sir and I were very much in love and romantic, but at the same time very much D/s and very secure in our "roles," and knew who and what we were.  We both brought a lot to the relationship and to each other. 


im talking about over romanticizing the relationship, not love within the relationship

two different things


I over romanticize the relationship right up to the point where the paddle comes out. And then I'm right back to it when I fall asleep with his arms wrapped around me. I over romanticize all the time, and I'm not a romantic person. I focus, on down time, about the warm loving things we do rather than the sadistic things since I'm not a masochist at a level equal to his sadism. I swear there's a fucking bluebird of happiness flitting around my bedroom as I type.

OP...you really need to realize that just because things in bdsm are not how you do it or think it, doesn't mean that it's not how others do or think. Seriously.




lally2 -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 4:15:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aninquisition

"i want to dispel the myth of saint dom and strong independent submissive"

That should be,
"I want to make clear that 'saint dom' and 'strong independent submissive' are extremely rare."
Because I can think of personal examples of both.

For one, why does a saintly nature have to be separate from a dominating nature?  The desire to control is not innately evil.  There are plenty who desire to keep things within their realm of control in order to protect them.  The dominant who seeks to control his submissive, not to bring himself far more pleasure, but to ensure her betterment.  There are plenty of dominants assured of themselves to the point of feeling they know what is better for a submissive than the submissive does.  And yes, there are plenty of submissives who are far from knowing what is best for themselves.

Are some dominants self-serving?  Do some use their control to solely meet their own needs?  I might even relent that most are like that.  But the 'saintly' dominant is far from a myth.

Now, let's evaluate 'strong, independent submissive.'  When we look at the word, 'independent', I assume you don't mean too independent to pursue relationships to begin with.  Because that would just be redundant and ridiculous.  It would no longer have anything to do with romanticizing D/s relationships and everything to do with the simple fact that some people just don't need other people to be happy.

So, the said submissive can take care of themselves (that level of independence, I'm assuming) and is strong.  Why would they need a dominant?

So simple.  For many submissives, performing tasks for themselves is far from satisfying.  To the point of near self-negligence in some cases.  Whereas some submissives, if left to their own devices, would not bother with cooking dinners, even if they were master chefs.  Despite any amount of intelligence, they would not learn other languages, pursue secondary education, or obtain any new talents.  Despite any natural inclination towards health, they would not exercise or pursue sports.  Simply because...there's no one to do it for.

I speak from personal experience.  For myself, I hardly have the effort to pour cereal in a bowl.  For someone I admire and respect, I will make a three course meal, complete with elaborate presentation, and love every moment.  To me, the greatest joy is to use my strength, my intelligence, my questioning nature, and apply that to better someone else's life.  I wish to be nothing more than the most deadly weapon, in the hands of someone I view as the greatest general of all time, should you follow me in that rather 'romantic' metaphor.

That said...  Can everyone have their romantic ideal?  No.  They can't.  And, all political correctness and PG-13 crap aside, it's because not all of us are good enough to have what we want.  I'm not even certain I'm good enough for my 'romantic ideal.'

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


i really enjoyed reading youre post. thanks.

i am an independent woman with my own business, single mum, animals, home and so on - i manage but only freekin just!! [:D] i try really hard to get a grip of all the bits and bobs flying around me, but its chaos most of the time. sometimes its a huge effort to just keep going.

i know that my ideal is someone who wants to see me make the most of my potential and gets pleasure from watching me handle my life better under his direction. most of my life ive been joked at, laughed at, called scatty and ok, maybe, but those comments dont help.

proaction, clear thinking and a self disciplined approach is what i lack. ive only ever received that from one M - his genuine desire to see me succeed took me a time to get used to. why should he care? what possible pleasure can he get from this? - but he did get pleasure from it and he really did care.

sometimes its more than just sex osf.





wisdomtogive -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 5:03:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Why am I always on a plane or a fast train?
Oh what a world my parents gave me
Always traveling but not in love
still I think I'm doing fine
Wouldn't it be a lovely headline?
Life is beautiful
on the New York Times


thank you subtee..am drinking my first cup of coffee and saw that and just thought..YES!!!




wisdomtogive -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 5:08:11 AM)

aninquisition
wonderfully written. thank you for your post. Welcome to the boards.

wisdomtogive




CaringandReal -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 6:23:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove

Scroll back and read aninquisition's post again. It's her First post! Wow. Look forward to reading more of them!

[sm=applause.gif]


Agree. It's an interesting response and a timely entrance.




osf -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 6:51:45 AM)

quote:

For one, why does a saintly nature have to be separate from a dominating nature?



it doesn't. but good luck finding one

quote:

Are some dominants self-serving?


absolutely


quote:

Do some use their control to solely meet their own needs?


most of the really interesting ones







osf -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 6:55:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

but explain get to know

I want/need to know about:
1. The Man as a Person.
2. His relationship status. (I don't want to find out later, after
   we're involved, that He's got a vanilla wife somewhere.
   I won't be Someone's "dirty little secret.")
3. His vanilla and kink likes/dislikes and needs/wants.  (There's
   more to the kind of relationship I want than just kink and sex.) 
4. What He wants/needs out of the relationship.
5. What He is expecting from me.
and at the same time I will let Him know all of the above about myself.  Also:
6. I need to spend some time with Him in person to see if there
   is any chemistry in real time, since that's what I'm looking for.

I'm pretty thorough, after learning the hard way early on.  [;)]




my advice to newly emerging submissives is don't worry about most of that, she's not going to be forming lasting relationships at firs anyway at this time she is discovering her self and that requires intimate contact with someone

after she gets to know her submissive self better, then it's time to worry about that




CaringandReal -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 6:59:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968


quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

I rather like a romantic D/s relationship.  Sir and I were very much in love and romantic, but at the same time very much D/s and very secure in our "roles," and knew who and what we were.  We both brought a lot to the relationship and to each other. 


im talking about over romanticizing the relationship, not love within the relationship

two different things


I over romanticize the relationship right up to the point where the paddle comes out. And then I'm right back to it when I fall asleep with his arms wrapped around me. I over romanticize all the time, and I'm not a romantic person. I focus, on down time, about the warm loving things we do rather than the sadistic things since I'm not a masochist at a level equal to his sadism. I swear there's a fucking bluebird of happiness flitting around my bedroom as I type.

OP...you really need to realize that just because things in bdsm are not how you do it or think it, doesn't mean that it's not how others do or think. Seriously.


What you're describing doesn't sound like overromaticizing to me; it sounds like just enough romaticizing. In fact, it sounds an awful lot like what sweetsub1957 was describing on page 1 (and above, in your quote): love within the relationship. Of course, romaticism, romaticizing, etc. have a lot of different meanings, connotations, depending upon one's experiences. So like all of the threads with general terms that have many different connotations, we're bound to come across differences. That's the whole point of the majorty of serious threads on this forum, as far as I can see: to discuss/compare/contrast and sometimes argue about those interesting differences. (Well, except for the "Why Don't They Blah Blah Blah?" complaining threads. :/ )

But generally speaking, when a friend says to you or when someone on a mesage board posts sadly, "I overromanticized the relationship" don't you take it to mean "I wasn't aware of the realties of the specific person I was involved with, I was more in love with being in love. And when the reality set in, it bit me?" rather than your own near-blissful condition?

I agree completely, by the way, that one can feel strongly romantic feelings within a realistic relationship. Throughout the years, I brought my former master flowers. Not just on special days, sometimes as often as weekly, depending upon the budget. They were just symbols, but symbols of a dopey, totally infatuated, worshipful feeling that, if it wasn't deeply romantic then I'm an exercising badger. (or a mushroom!) But I think that act (and many others like it) was a realistic representation of the reality of the relationship, and I never felt once that the relationship "bit me." In the end, life bit me. But in the end it bites us all, dosn't it?




SirAntonio -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 7:00:25 AM)

I was wondering more what kind of unrealistic expectations you are referring to.  Do you have any specific examples in mind?

I second this..... 




osf -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 7:00:29 AM)

quote:

i am an independent woman with my own business, single mum, animals, home and so on - i manage but only freekin just!! i try really hard to get a grip of all the bits and bobs flying around me, but its chaos most of the time. sometimes its a huge effort to just keep going.


you can have all that, the structure is the structure of and in a relationship, somewhere for you to retreat and recharge.


and as for you daily life most will not interfere if the relationship provides him with his needs

most will actually be of benifit




sexyred1 -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 7:14:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

but explain get to know

I want/need to know about:
1. The Man as a Person.
2. His relationship status. (I don't want to find out later, after
   we're involved, that He's got a vanilla wife somewhere.
   I won't be Someone's "dirty little secret.")
3. His vanilla and kink likes/dislikes and needs/wants.  (There's
   more to the kind of relationship I want than just kink and sex.) 
4. What He wants/needs out of the relationship.
5. What He is expecting from me.
and at the same time I will let Him know all of the above about myself.  Also:
6. I need to spend some time with Him in person to see if there
   is any chemistry in real time, since that's what I'm looking for.

I'm pretty thorough, after learning the hard way early on.  [;)]




my advice to newly emerging submissives is don't worry about most of that, she's not going to be forming lasting relationships at firs anyway at this time she is discovering her self and that requires intimate contact with someone

after she gets to know her submissive self better, then it's time to worry about that


I sincerely hope that no "newly emerging submissives" listen to anything you have to say, simply because what you say above is beyond ludicrous.

How on earth could you offer the advice you just gave and tell someone not to "worry" about getting to know someone on many different levels?

Shakes head...




osf -> RE: the romance v the reality of d/s (12/29/2009 7:14:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aninquisition

"i want to dispel the myth of saint dom and strong independent submissive"

That should be,
"I want to make clear that 'saint dom' and 'strong independent submissive' are extremely rare."
Because I can think of personal examples of both.

For one, why does a saintly nature have to be separate from a dominating nature? The desire to control is not innately evil. There are plenty who desire to keep things within their realm of control in order to protect them. The dominant who seeks to control his submissive, not to bring himself far more pleasure, but to ensure her betterment. There are plenty of dominants assured of themselves to the point of feeling they know what is better for a submissive than the submissive does. And yes, there are plenty of submissives who are far from knowing what is best for themselves.

Are some dominants self-serving? Do some use their control to solely meet their own needs? I might even relent that most are like that. But the 'saintly' dominant is far from a myth.

Now, let's evaluate 'strong, independent submissive.' When we look at the word, 'independent', I assume you don't mean too independent to pursue relationships to begin with. Because that would just be redundant and ridiculous. It would no longer have anything to do with romanticizing D/s relationships and everything to do with the simple fact that some people just don't need other people to be happy.

So, the said submissive can take care of themselves (that level of independence, I'm assuming) and is strong. Why would they need a dominant?

So simple. For many submissives, performing tasks for themselves is far from satisfying. To the point of near self-negligence in some cases. Whereas some submissives, if left to their own devices, would not bother with cooking dinners, even if they were master chefs. Despite any amount of intelligence, they would not learn other languages, pursue secondary education, or obtain any new talents. Despite any natural inclination towards health, they would not exercise or pursue sports. Simply because...there's no one to do it for.

I speak from personal experience. For myself, I hardly have the effort to pour cereal in a bowl. For someone I admire and respect, I will make a three course meal, complete with elaborate presentation, and love every moment. To me, the greatest joy is to use my strength, my intelligence, my questioning nature, and apply that to better someone else's life. I wish to be nothing more than the most deadly weapon, in the hands of someone I view as the greatest general of all time, should you follow me in that rather 'romantic' metaphor.

That said... Can everyone have their romantic ideal? No. They can't. And, all political correctness and PG-13 crap aside, it's because not all of us are good enough to have what we want. I'm not even certain I'm good enough for my 'romantic ideal.'

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



strong independent sub is the I can have it all, all I want out of life mentality


there is going to be a price, you are not going to be able to have it all, you will have to make sacrifices and compromises

I can’t tell you what they will be for they will be different in each case, but belive me they will be there




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