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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I am not vicious at all; I just find it difficult to read some of the nonsense being spouted. You were the one who said I was dishonest which is a total misperception on your part. I post very honestly and always have.

I would advise you to look upon your own posts; many of them have been highly insulting, which could be construed as vicious to others.

If you want to dish it out, osf, you need to be able to take it.

then from now on you'll use my posts in context?

disagree with the argument as i meant it

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ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I am not vicious at all; I just find it difficult to read some of the nonsense being spouted. You were the one who said I was dishonest which is a total misperception on your part. I post very honestly and always have.

I would advise you to look upon your own posts; many of them have been highly insulting, which could be construed as vicious to others.

If you want to dish it out, osf, you need to be able to take it.

then from now on you'll use my posts in context?

disagree with the argument as i meant it

I think you would have to write better and use punctuation for that to happen. How are we suppose to know how you meant it? Read your mind?

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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

OP, look at my list again. 

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ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957
know about:
1. The Man as a Person.
2. His relationship status. (I don't want to find out later, after
we're involved, that He's got a vanilla wife somewhere.
I won't be Someone's "dirty little secret.")
3. His vanilla and kink likes/dislikes and needs/wants.  (There's
more to the kind of relationship I want than just kink and sex.) 
4. What He wants/needs out of the relationship.
5. What He is expecting from me.
and at the same time I will let Him know all of the above about myself.  Also:
6. I need to spend some time with Him in person to see if there
is any chemistry in real time.

Tell me, what standards are set too high?  The advice in my list is common sense safety advice in the first place, as well as things a person needs to know if she/he wants what they consider a successful relationship, unless s/he wants tostart out with a lot of unhappy b.s. and unmet expectations in the beginning.  And you say to  just not set their standards as high as they normally would.  WTF!?

Sweetsub, your list is great! In my eyes, it can be used by any woman, kink, or vanilla, anywhere, and prevent a lot of trouble. Standards have to be high, if a female values herself! Doormats are abused, a lot.

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it's really simple there aren't that many of us and if she wants to learn she is going to have to cast her net further for even some that she knows she would not form a lasting relationship with

Who is us?

I tried to understand that sentence, but I gave up.

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if your always seeking niceness this isn't the life for you

And I don't, but I have found consensual. [:)]

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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I am not vicious at all; I just find it difficult to read some of the nonsense being spouted. You were the one who said I was dishonest which is a total misperception on your part. I post very honestly and always have.

I would advise you to look upon your own posts; many of them have been highly insulting, which could be construed as vicious to others.

If you want to dish it out, osf, you need to be able to take it.

then from now on you'll use my posts in context?

disagree with the argument as i meant it

I think you would have to write better and use punctuation for that to happen. How are we suppose to know how you meant it? Read your mind?

ask?

if i'm not sure i ask

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it's really simple there aren't that many of us and if she wants to learn she is going to have to cast her net further for even some that she knows she would not form a lasting relationship with

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if your always seeking niceness this isn't the life for you

And I don't, but I have found consensual.

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ORIGINAL: osf

it is extremely rare for a new sub to meet a capable dom fall in love get married and suffer blissfully for the rest of her life (the romance)

what are the rest to do, convents? ( the reality)

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ORIGINAL: osf

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it's really simple there aren't that many of us and if she wants to learn she is going to have to cast her net further for even some that she knows she would not form a lasting relationship with

you can't figure the "US" out?

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if your always seeking niceness this isn't the life for you

And I don't, but I have found consensual.

and this relates how?

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

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ORIGINAL: osf

it is extremely rare for a new sub to meet a capable dom fall in love get married and suffer blissfully for the rest of her life (the romance)

what are the rest to do, convents? ( the reality)

Regarding your first statement, yes, it's rare, but I had the first. It wasn't romance as contrasted with reality. It was reality that was both practical and romantic...and perfect for me. Unfortunately, he died first and left me with the rest of my life. What I have done with the rest of that life so far is exactly what you have suggested. Self-imposed convent. It was the only thing to do, IMO, until or unless I felt like trying my luck a second time and before doing that, the other person would have to scale certain convent walls, thorny with the vines of intuition and memory (of reality).

No, I guess it's not a choice that most people would make or want to make, particularly new submissives, but it is a choice and it can be taken.

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ORIGINAL: aninquisition

Now, let's evaluate 'strong, independent submissive.'  When we look at the word, 'independent', I assume you don't mean too independent to pursue relationships to begin with.  Because that would just be redundant and ridiculous.  It would no longer have anything to do with romanticizing D/s relationships and everything to do with the simple fact that some people just don't need other people to be happy.

So, the said submissive can take care of themselves (that level of independence, I'm assuming) and is strong.  Why would they need a dominant?

So simple.  For many submissives, performing tasks for themselves is far from satisfying.  To the point of near self-negligence in some cases.  Whereas some submissives, if left to their own devices, would not bother with cooking dinners, even if they were master chefs.  Despite any amount of intelligence, they would not learn other languages, pursue secondary education, or obtain any new talents.  Despite any natural inclination towards health, they would not exercise or pursue sports.  Simply because...there's no one to do it for.

I speak from personal experience.  For myself, I hardly have the effort to pour cereal in a bowl.  For someone I admire and respect, I will make a three course meal, complete with elaborate presentation, and love every moment.  To me, the greatest joy is to use my strength, my intelligence, my questioning nature, and apply that to better someone else's life.  I wish to be nothing more than the most deadly weapon, in the hands of someone I view as the greatest general of all time, should you follow me in that rather 'romantic' metaphor.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: osf

strong independent sub is the I can have it all, all I want out of life mentality

and what is wrong with wanting as much as you can possibly find just because a person is strong, independent and submissive does not mean that they are any less entitled to finding their ideal.

i am strong emotionally because ive learnt to be. i am independent because i am a single mother and ive learnt to be

there is going to be a price, you are not going to be able to have it all, you will have to make sacrifices and compromises

of course, isnt that what all relationships end up doing, making sacrifices and compromises.

I can’t tell you what they will be for they will be different in each case, but belive me they will be there


as variable as in any other relationship.

the sacrifices for d/s may have to be greater because of it's socially unacceptable nature

my private life is just that, i dont seek social acceptance from anyone, why would i.

but then i dont tend to feel comfortable being overt in public. its possible for the dynamic between two people to continue right under everyones noses without a single person being aware of it.

shopping for food, i kept buzzing off to get stuff. in the end he got fed up with turning around and finding me gone so he just looked at me with a small frown and said quietly 'stop dissappearing'. so i did, happily, with a big grin all over my face [:)] happy as a lark fully submissive and noone knew.

but if you want to be a public person it could be a bit inconvenient

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inconvenient for who. i would imagine it would be less inconvenient to the people who are comfortable to express their Ds or Ms openly.

clearly they cant be tied to the clock tower and flogged, or dragged naked through kindergarten wearing a but plug. but as society grows more and more cosmo and more and more accepting of alternative lifestyles, walking along the street with youre sub on a lead isnt going to upset any laws, having youre sub kneel on the floor at a restaurant isnt going to break any laws. not my bag at all, but people do and are not inconvenienced.

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

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ORIGINAL: aninquisition

Now, let's evaluate 'strong, independent submissive.'  When we look at the word, 'independent', I assume you don't mean too independent to pursue relationships to begin with.  Because that would just be redundant and ridiculous.  It would no longer have anything to do with romanticizing D/s relationships and everything to do with the simple fact that some people just don't need other people to be happy.

So, the said submissive can take care of themselves (that level of independence, I'm assuming) and is strong.  Why would they need a dominant?

So simple.  For many submissives, performing tasks for themselves is far from satisfying.  To the point of near self-negligence in some cases.  Whereas some submissives, if left to their own devices, would not bother with cooking dinners, even if they were master chefs.  Despite any amount of intelligence, they would not learn other languages, pursue secondary education, or obtain any new talents.  Despite any natural inclination towards health, they would not exercise or pursue sports.  Simply because...there's no one to do it for.

I speak from personal experience.  For myself, I hardly have the effort to pour cereal in a bowl.  For someone I admire and respect, I will make a three course meal, complete with elaborate presentation, and love every moment.  To me, the greatest joy is to use my strength, my intelligence, my questioning nature, and apply that to better someone else's life.  I wish to be nothing more than the most deadly weapon, in the hands of someone I view as the greatest general of all time, should you follow me in that rather 'romantic' metaphor.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I like what you said about saintly dominants. It's quite realistic and matches my experience.

There is, however, something that strikes me as a contradiction in your definition of a strong, independent submissive. The core of the problem, for me, lies in the fact that your alternative to "neediness" (aka weakness in some circles) is, in fact... neediness. "For many submissives, performing tasks for themselves is far from satisfying. To the point of near self-negligence in some cases." Nods. You've nailed our Achilles heel, all right, as well as our strongest source of joy and energy--when or if things work out. And if they don't? It's usually bad news, in my observation. "Strong" and "Independent" are adjectives of a moment. They apply to a person who, at that time, feels hope for the future, hope that they are going to to get what they want and need. Wrong experiences, frustration, isolation, poor choices, or no choices, all of these can erode away at those traits. Or not. Depends on the person! But it strikes me that someone with that achilles heel, someone with the powerful need to do things for another, someone needy for a dominant's control, will, if they do not get that need met, eventually weaken and falter. Give up.
Time is merciless, at times, and strength conditional.

A submissive who appears strong and independent to others because he or she goes to their job, feeds their pets, takes care of their children or aging parents, peforms whatever other duties or obligations life has thrown their way, tries to make the world a little better and easier for those they encounter, and keeps themselves open to the possibility of meeting, if not a saint, at least a compatible dominant, could inside be a dark mess of seething despair, counting down the hours until they can free themselves from misery. I define myself primarily by my interior landscape and almost never by my actions in physical reality--this may seem queer to some, but I think it's fairly SOP with introverts. By my standards, I am terribly weak and not at all independent according to the ways I measure such terms. My unmet need makes me weak in my eyes. If the need is ever met again, it will make slavishly dependent, even addicted, in my eyes. I find nothing wrong with either condition (weakness or dependence); I do not have bad connotations for either of these terms. I think they are apt descrptions of my core submissive self, far more so than "strong" and "independent" which only apply to the motions I go through in the "walking world" to insure physical survival. As such, I think a wild animal, if put entirely in my shoes, could probably do a better job of it. ;)

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ORIGINAL: osf

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inconvenient for who. i would imagine it would be less inconvenient to the people who are comfortable to express their Ds or Ms openly.

clearly they cant be tied to the clock tower and flogged, or dragged naked through kindergarten wearing a but plug. but as society grows more and more cosmo and more and more accepting of alternative lifestyles, walking along the street with youre sub on a lead isnt going to upset any laws, having youre sub kneel on the floor at a restaurant isnt going to break any laws. not my bag at all, but people do and are not inconvenienced.

now i can say it, but you'r in england

this country is a bit more staid in that respect

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ORIGINAL: osf

my point we have to be more secretive than most

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: osf

my point we have to be more secretive than most

ok, the only time i have had to be secretive is with my son. but its not a problem. its just part of being his parent and to be honest no different to any other parent choosing to keep private adult things away from the kids.

otherwise my life ticks along as it always does.

what sort of things do you have in mind as compromise or sacrifice in public that you would want to do if you were out with any woman, mainstream or otherwise. how does Ds or Ms alter any part of youre public life.

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ORIGINAL: osf

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: osf

my point we have to be more secretive than most

ok, the only time i have had to be secretive is with my son. but its not a problem. its just part of being his parent and to be honest no different to any other parent choosing to keep private adult things away from the kids.

otherwise my life ticks along as it always does.

what sort of things do you have in mind as compromise or sacrifice in public that you would want to do if you were out with any woman, mainstream or otherwise. how does Ds or Ms alter any part of youre public life.

but you're not out being a public figure hoping someone that knows doesn't blab to the news