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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 2:13:24 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

well, it seems hes down now, innit?

Who wouldn't be?

Justme: I think it's a form of manic depression that's radical enough to seriously effect the judgement. Doubtless I'm wrong, though.


No, that's accurate. I had an ex who was severely bipolar. She once turned her father in to the FBI for assassinating JFK, and told some of our friends that I was a former Navy SEAL who'd murdered 3 people and was planning to kill her. Where she got this shit, nobody could ever figure out, but the point is some bipolar people can be completely detached from anything even remotely resembling reality, while appearing quite normal to most people with whom they interact.


I'm sorry to hear that. As you an Ellen say, if you can work out how to manipulate somebody with that problem (and I'm sure that a problem like that is going to make them a lot easier to manipulate than most), they'll make an ideal mark as a drugs mule. Even if they remember who they're working for they'll probably claim that they were a point man for the grey aliens from the crab nebula or something and queer the testimony.

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 2:14:05 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I have the same problem with mentally retarded (not sure of the current pc term) people who murder, and the defence says they don't know that what they do is wrong.

If they can function in society more-or-less sucessfully, how can the defence be that they don't know right from wrong? If they can hold a job then they know that they have to be at work at a certain time and its wrong to be late. They know they can't help themselves at a shop - that that is wrong. How can they not know that it is wrong to hurt or kill someone?

And here i am talking about marginally retarded people.

If they know it is wrong to murder then shouldn't the law of the land apply, and if there is a death penalty, then it should be enacted.

And if you are stupid enough to try to smuggle drugs in Asia, then you get what is coming - bipolar or not. I know a fair number of bipolar people, and even the ones not on drugs weren't that stupid.

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 2:18:04 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Amazing the number of people here that would gladly go to the gallows, having killed under extreme provocation or in self defence.

"My state of mind was irrelevant your Honour, I demand the death sentence"

E

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 2:22:21 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Amazing the number of people here that would gladly go to the gallows, having killed under extreme provocation or in self defence.

"My state of mind was irrelevant your Honour, I demand the death sentence"

E

A palpable hit!

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 2:23:49 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
I'm sorry to hear that. As you an Ellen say, if you can work out how to manipulate somebody with that problem (and I'm sure that a problem like that is going to make them a lot easier to manipulate than most), they'll make an ideal mark as a drugs mule. Even if they remember who they're working for they'll probably claim that they were a point man for the grey aliens from the crab nebula or something and queer the testimony.


In my experience with my ex, I found she was extremely open to manipulation much of the time. I don't know how it relates to the bipolar disorder, but in some states of mind she would literally believe anything someone told her if they sounded even halfway convincing.

I think it was a combination of two things - first, she clearly had great difficulty to begin with in distinguishing between what was real and what was not, and second, she really wanted to believe what other people told her because she knew that her own perception of reality was unreliable. No matter what she thought she knew in any given situation, she was almost desperate to believe someone else's interpretation of it because she knew she was crazy and figured that anything someone else thought made more sense than any of the million bizarre concepts that were swirling through her mind at that particular instant.

She had to pick friends very, very carefully, and could not tolerate anyone in her life who was even remotely dishonest or insincere. If she'd ever fallen in with the wrong people, i could easily imagine her doing something exactly like this. I know for a fact I could have talked her into it with no difficulty whatsoever. Guaranteed. And she never would have dreamed she was being conned. It just wouldn't have occurred to her. I'm not saying that's what happened with this man, but I don't find it the least bit difficult to believe.


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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 2:59:57 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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This type thread is tough for me because I can see both sides.

First, you presume to know far too much of his motivation or circumstance.

It is your responsibility to know what is and what is not legal in a foreign country you are visiting. If you beak a law that the penalty is death then that is your fault.

Now…blaming this mans actions on mental illness is an insult to the millions of people suffering from this very same disease. They don’t go out smuggling in drugs...there was a flaw in his character outside of his mental illness.

He was a crook that was bipolar…not bipolar that turned him into a crook…keep that in mind.

Butch


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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:02:20 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		If you haven't been around people that were mentally ill in some form or another. I can see why you might have trouble opening your mind to the idea that a person like this would possibly not understand the consequences of their actions like the rest of us
"might".


< Message edited by Icarys -- 12/29/2009 3:04:00 PM >

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:02:58 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		So, Butch, what makes you so privy to all the facts that you claim Lady E does not have?

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:06:56 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I don't claim too...what are her sources? She said he disappeared then showed up in Poland...what happened between those times ...she has no idea...and please re-read the last line in my post… it says my true and important meaning in this thread.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/29/2009 3:07:23 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:11:42 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't claim too...what are her sources? She said he disappeared then showed up in Poland...what happened between those times ...she has no idea...and please re-read the last line in my post… it says my true and important meaning in this thread.

Butch


Your asking panda to read that last line  but what are your sources for saying it in the first place?

I don't believe the Op has stated anything as fact.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:11:58 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Bipolar IS manic depression.  The gods of mental illness decided to rename it.

He may have been manic but that does not mean that he didn't know right from wrong, just that it would seem less of an obstacle than otherwise.


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:13:38 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't claim too...


Really? Than what's this -


quote:

there was a flaw in his character outside of his mental illness.

He was a crook that was bipolar…not bipolar that turned him into a crook…keep that in mind.



quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
what are her sources? She said he disappeared then showed up in Poland...what happened between those times ...she has no idea...and please re-read the last line in my post… it says my true and important meaning in this thread.



It's a sweeping judgment with no factual basis whatsoever. It may or may not be accurate, but you have absolutely nothing with which to back it up. It's nothing but an opinion, stated as fact.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:18:27 PM   
GuinevereLost


Posts: 8
Joined: 8/25/2007
Status: offline 		I think the problem is that everyone assumes he knew the drugs were in his bags.  I know enough about how it works to say its not hard to dupe a sane person much less one on a slippery slope.  Watch that show on the travel channel about being locked up abroad.  Most of these people are approached and offered wondrous things and get handed new luggage to pack in, new luggage with drugs hidden in the seams and such.  You can hide a crap ton of stuff in the right bags and no one but a trained person or dog could find it.  If these people found this guy on the down slide and said here is some luggage and a passport you go see our record exec. in China and he will produce your song about world peace and he blindly followed every order then no way in hell do I think he deserved a needle.  China says they take mental state into account the problem is they never have anyone seen by a doctor to evaluate them.  According to CNN this guys lawyer has never even seen him and his trial lasted less than 30 minutes...sounds like a fantastic railroad job on the poor soul who had no idea what was happening to him.  But, I have no use for China anyway and will be happy when we tax the shit outta everything with a "made in China" stamp on it so that American made items are cheaper to buy so more will buy them and viola more jobs.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:22:45 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
But we are also right - it is plainly wrong to hold a mentally ill man to the same standards as those free of such a condition, and he ought not have been executed.

I think that it would be best to kill the addicts. If nobody is buying because they are all dead, then there is no incentive to smuggle and trade.

Even better is to make hard drugs legal.

Neither will ever happen as the profits of this tax are needed for whatever purpose.

Yes, there is responsability: the man was not responsible for his behaviour. However, there is also accountability: he most certainly was accountable for his behaviour.

A lesser punishment? Depends on the case, I would say.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:22:47 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
He may have been manic but that does not mean that he didn't know right from wrong, just that it would seem less of an obstacle than otherwise.

Doesn't that have any bearing on his competence to stand trial? For God's sake, there was a lad in your country who got away with murder because he'd eaten too many twinkies. (I was always surprised they never used that for one of those adverts in the comics...)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 35
I'll RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:24:33 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		It's not a perfect world and we can't save everybody. Not that we shouldn't try but we have a lot of other problems to figure out too.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 3:29:24 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

But, I have no use for China anyway and will be happy when we tax the shit outta everything with a "made in China" stamp on it so that American made items are cheaper to buy so more will buy them and viola more jobs.


That would make a great topic I think..Something along those lines anyway.

Nafta Afta Staftya

It's not likely to happen because this has been going on for decades..one president to the next has handed that football fuckin monkey to it's next keeper and we've been stuck with the bill. One of the problems as I see it is that most of us can't see two feet before us and the people in power are thinking 30 years in advance..We never see it coming till it's too late. For those of us that did..What could you do anyway.

Derailment over.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 4:14:07 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8433285.stm

Its one of the main news headlines at the moment over here Butch; above BBC link is one of any number I could post.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:09:37 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


This type thread is tough for me because I can see both sides.

First, you presume to know far too much of his motivation or circumstance.

It is your responsibility to know what is and what is not legal in a foreign country you are visiting. If you beak a law that the penalty is death then that is your fault.

Now…blaming this mans actions on mental illness is an insult to the millions of people suffering from this very same disease. They don’t go out smuggling in drugs...there was a flaw in his character outside of his mental illness.

He was a crook that was bipolar…not bipolar that turned him into a crook…keep that in mind.

Butch



Nice statement without reading the facts Butch. His only crime was he was duped into carrying someone elses case onto the plane. LadyE is correct that he was bipolar and maybe not as savvy as the rest of us. He wouldnt be the first person tricked into carrying a parcel or something, would he.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:15:47 PM   
XXlittlegirlXX


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline 		so instead of killing him,he should be put in a mental hospital and giving the help he needs that got him to where he was in the first place...


then he can be killed. mwhahaha!!!

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Profile   Post #: 40
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