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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:18:14 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		He's already dead, actually .



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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:19:47 PM   
XXlittlegirlXX


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline 		oh by the way i was kidding i dont want people thinking i believe that killing someone over smuggling drugs in china. I think the punishment is too harsh.. and his mental disorder claim is weak. Come back when you're hearing voices that told you to do it. Otherwise everyone has ups and downs,why should anyone who might have them more extremely be allowed to use it as an excuse? thats the problem with all these ''emotional'' disorders,and I have room to speak. I was told i was manic depressive,bipolar or borderline personality disorder. Well uhm,hello which one? However when i look back on it now,i was just a young teenage girl with the lack of guidences,and emotional support so my emotions were crazy! For the longest time,i would use it as ''well i'm borderline personality disorder so that's why i'm so clingy'' but in reality i'm just a dependent bitch,that goes crazy when what i want isn't happening. *cough*brat*cough* however bipolar? weak! He knew what he was doing,he was just in it for the thrill and he got caught.

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:19:51 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		scrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch!!!!!!

so, he aint gonna get any better if this goes over 9 pages?

Ron

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:20:59 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Nope. He's a goner for sure.

ABOLISH THE DEATH PENALTY.

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:22:12 PM   
XXlittlegirlXX


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline 		oh! haha duh...

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''People are always angry at anyone who chooses very individual standards for his life; because of the extraordinary treatment which that man grants to himself, they feel degraded, like ordinary beings.''

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 5:30:49 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I know quite a few people with bi-polar. They hold upper executive jobs, they are leaders in their work and life. They are just like anyone else. They simply have erratic moodswings and from time to time, severe ups and downs that can take a toll..but in no way does that make them not able to tell right from wrong.

This idea that this guy was mentally challenged just leaves me shaking my head. Sorry...the guy had a job, the man was able to travel all by his lonesome self and he seemed to be thought of pretty highly by others who knew him.

I'm not saying he knew that he was holding drugs or not on him. I don't have the full story. I'm saying that we shouldn't be looking at him as some poor naive animal led to the slaughter.

I'm also not saying he should have been executed. I won't comment on that one way or the other.


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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 6:11:45 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

I know quite a few people with bi-polar. They hold upper executive jobs, they are leaders in their work and life. They are just like anyone else. They simply have erratic moodswings and from time to time, severe ups and downs that can take a toll..but in no way does that make them not able to tell right from wrong.


Do you suppose it could be like everything else when dealing with people and have varying degrees? There are some that can't hold down regular jobs..just like there are some that are high functioning.


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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 6:18:10 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

I know quite a few people with bi-polar. They hold upper executive jobs, they are leaders in their work and life. They are just like anyone else. They simply have erratic moodswings and from time to time, severe ups and downs that can take a toll..but in no way does that make them not able to tell right from wrong.


Do you suppose it could be like everything else when dealing with people and have varying degrees? There are some that can't hold down regular jobs..just like there are some that are high functioning.



It is that way. I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever disagreed with anything Littlewonder said, but I have to part with her here. It can even vary within an individual patient. When I first met my ex, she was having a bit of a rough spell, but her life was manageable. Then she had a couple of years where she was just rockin' and rollin'; everything was working great, and she was highly functional and competent. Then her father died, and her twin brother committed suicide, and something inside of her just fell apart. She's never been the same since. Totally different person than the woman I met; in many ways, helpless as a child. It covers a wide range, and you nevr know where in that range someone will fall.


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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 9:12:00 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Common sense...show me any evidence where being bipolar makes you a drug smuggler.

Now I am not saying that some people with a character flaw don't use drugs when bipolar...even though there are many good effective drugs now to control it...I have three in my family...none use illegal drugs or smuggle them for use or profit.

Being bipolar is beside the point when it comes to illegal drugs of any kind. I am well aware that many here do not think any drug should be illegal…that is not the point either…The point is you can not blame using illegal drugs on being bipolar. And the man faced the consequences of his illegal actions…even if you don’t think they were serious enough for the death penalty.


Being bipolar did not MAKE him do it.


Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/29/2009 9:18:30 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 9:17:46 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		This is an interesting topic, LadyE.
I once took a Special Education class and the professor informed us, that at least 50% of those
incarcerated where in some sort of Special Education classes/or program, when they were in school.
I was like, great this is comforting.

I would like to know the percentage of people that have committed ANY type of crime
that do NOT have any form of mental illness or where not in Special Education classes when they
were in school.

Here are 2 links! click them! go there! read them!
Study Finds Hundreds of Thousands of Inmates Mentally Ill - NYTimes.com


Learning disabilities, crime, delinquency, and special education placement - page 2 | Adolescence

I am by NO means defending the practices and policies in China, I am saying that there is a huge
number of inmates across the world, that are mentally ill.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 12/29/2009 9:40:41 PM >

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 9:21:25 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
For me, the Chinese are right - no one else has the right to interfere with their judicial process and if death is the penalty for drug smuggling, then that is that. But we are also right - it is plainly wrong to hold a mentally ill man to the same standards as those free of such a condition, and he ought not have been executed.

E


want to bet they never forgot the opium war? when britain forced opium sales up on them after they outlawed it?


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 9:23:31 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		Ha! That suggestion is pure genius, RealOne. I am sure that you are right.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 9:29:10 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I hope you don't mind me committing on your post MzMia. What I am about to say sounds like it is contradicting my post above but they are not.

I will predict with no proof…so pure speculation… that in the distant future we will find that the propensity of all crime will be found to be damage of one kind or another in the brain and they will but able to be cured…I hope.

I think the uncontrolled need for drug use to alter the normal mind is a mental illness…bipolar is another…there is no reason not to believe he had both but only bipolar was mentioned and this one disease alone is not a reason for drug smuggling.

That is why in my first post I said I was conflicted on my first post I can see where a person with both diseases could have trouble controlling his urges.

I am sure not defending China

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/29/2009 9:32:05 PM >

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 9:31:21 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Ha! That suggestion is pure genius, RealOne. I am sure that you are right.


oh yeh just a quickee wiki....

The Opium Wars (simplified Chinese: 鸦片战争; traditional Chinese: 鴉片戰爭; pinyin: Yāpiàn Zhànzhēng), also known as the Anglo-Chinese Wars, were the climax of trade disputes and diplomatic difficulties between China under the Qing Dynasty and the British Empire after China sought to restrict British opium traffickers. It consisted of the First Opium War from 1839 to 1842[1] and the Second Opium War from 1856 to 1860.[2]


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 9:52:16 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Butch, I don't think anyone is suggesting that being bipolar made him think it was OK to smuggle drugs. The issue appears to be whether he understood that was what he was doing. According to news reports, he may have been tricked into carrying luggage that had the heroin hidden inside it. Which is more than plausible for someone suffering from a severe mental illness often characterized by delusional behavior, hallucinations, and inability to distinguish reality from imagination.


< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 12/29/2009 9:54:10 PM >

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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 10:06:47 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		That is not bipolar...and that is what the OP said...that is why I commented...now if he were schizophrenic as you are describing that would be different. But even then how do we know he was not evaluated by the Chinese authorities for a mental disorder?

The OP I admire…especially her humanity but in many, and in this case, she assumes too much without all the proper information….She may very well be right but she could also be wrong as well…She should not be speaking in absolutes in my opinion.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 10:21:16 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		There are different degrees of bipolar, and it's well-known that extreme manic episodes often become full-blown psychosis, with the patient suffering from delusions and hallucinations and completely losing touch with reality. It's quite common. And the Chinese acknowledged that they did not even give the man a mental health screening. He never saw a doctor. 

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 10:21:53 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I will predict with no proof…so pure speculation… that in the distant future we will find that the propensity of all crime will be found to be damage of one kind or another in the brain

Whereas I see the phenomenon from the point of view of evolution biology: if crime exists, there must be some benefit for the gene pool and the population in which it manifests, otherwise it would be selected against by natural (and sexual) selection. (I also will applaud anyone who kills such destructive individuals, though.)

So, whatever the difference in their brain, I suspect that it is proper for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I think the uncontrolled need for drug use to alter the normal mind is a mental illness…

Unfortunately, many are susceptible to substance abuse. The most obnoxious ones are the people that smoke. The most dangerous ones are the people that drink. Then there are those addicted to gambling and - undoubtedly the worst of them - those who are addicted to listening to LOUD music.

Drug users on the other hand would hardly cause any problems if they could obtain their substance legally and cheaply.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 10:37:31 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Being bipolar did not MAKE him do it.





....true, being bipolar significently reduced his ability to understand the consequences of his actions. It did not make him do it, it just made it difficult for him to know just what it was he was doing.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: bipolar man executed in China - 12/29/2009 10:39:18 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am going by the information provided by the OP... Nothing was mentioned as to if he was evaluated or not...You may have information about the inside workings of the Chinese judicial system I don't have...Or have more information on the story I have not seen. Love for you to provide a link where the Chinese said they did not evaluate him for mental illness.

Yes confusion is common with bipolar…there is an inability to function properly...but he seemed to have no trouble functioning smuggling drugs. For to say he was duped is again outside of known facts…you should not speak in absolutes either.

I am not saying the OP is wrong…only that she did not post enough information to be right either and to me at least she is blaming his crime on bipolar and I still believe that an insult to the many who suffer confusion and inability to function properly but do NOT smuggle drugs in China.

Butch

Sorry Rule this was in reply to Panda

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/29/2009 10:42:11 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 60
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