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ORIGINAL: thornhappy
It sounds like you went "rail to rail" - one extreme to another.  Why not a middle course?

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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ORIGINAL: Lucienne

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ORIGINAL: AislynLass
 
I am fairly new to these boards, and wasn't planning on posting in this thread...but the hypocrisy here is just mindboggling to me. In this posting, you seem to suggest that the ends justify whatever means to make the sale. Yet, in the same post, you refer to yourself as a feminist. Personally, I've always held the belief that the key concept of feminism was to promote the value of equal pay and opportunity for equal work and merit. Your boasting of using "sex appeal" to give you an edge with the men you are competing with completely belies and contradicts this point in my opinion. It is just really ironic that the argument over the cheerleading issue was being made that it promotes the message to girls that their "worth" or "value" is based on their looks or their bodies.

I think the irony is much richer than that. Sales is a venal business and Elisabella raised some interesting points about technique that have basically gone unanswered. I'd need to explore the issue more before concluding if "hypocrisy" is an adequate term to describe the situation. But as the thread has developed, I've noticed a more on-topic theme.

I find it's rarely important to concern myself with whether or not a person is a misogynist (hater of women) in his or her heart. Of relevance is -- has a person done or said something that feeds off and/or into misogynist tropes. And in this thread Aynne, in her behavior towards Elisabella, has hit most of the major points. She called her frigid, an inadequate lover and commented on how easy it would be to steal her man. Because in a misogynist worldview, a woman is defined by her man and her value determined by her sexuality. Irritated by Elisabella, Aynne retreated to some of the ugliest and most irrational ways to attack a woman.

Next step, called out on her trash talk, Aynne responds with the time-honored classic "Lighten up." Oh, the feminist energy that has been devoted to analyzing and responding to that particular dismissive technique. I don't know that I want to explain this one in detail to those who don't get it. Too much energy. Let's just say - RED FLAG.

Then, and I suppose this point is somewhat debatable on the grounds that temporal succession does not equal causation, the retreat to fun flirty mode. With Domiguy. and others. But really, an interesting moment to highlight your comfort with the guy whose posts tend to manifest, well.... issues with women. (Note: I don't know or care what's in his heart and I'm not terribly bothered by his posts, just sayin)

So, Aynne, the self-proclaimed feminist, has put on a traditional display of how misogynistic tropes are kept alive in our culture by people who may or may not actually hate women. But that's not the irony that strikes me. What kills me is the similarity of her behavior to the behavior that Shakti was criticizing when she made the Nazi comment about Elisabella. For those capable of setting aside all the emotional responses, the point of the Nazi comment was about collaborators. Specifically, those who collaborate with systems that are oppressive to their class because their collaboration earns them special status and favor. So, basically, people who find themselves an exception but enforce the rule against those similarly situated. Which is pretty much what Aynne did to Elisabella here.

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ORIGINAL: Kimveri

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ORIGINAL: xssve
In fact, it apparently remains a Gorean paradise.

WHY the fuck you think that's got a gawddamned thing to do with actual Goreans, I have no clue.

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My mother rose to the top of her profession, won multiple awards, and did it all without sleeping with the boss or using her feminine wiles to get one over her male co-workers.  She achieved by playing by the same set of rules as the men she worked alongside.  That's a feminist.

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ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88
Lastly, you calling me a "salf proclaimed feminist." What the fuck does that mean? Like you are the proclaimer of my feminism? Or Elisabella, who runs an anti-feminist site? Not holding my breath on that one. I have been a feminist since I was in my teens, I won't letyou determine it for me, thanks. I am also a shameless flirt, a lover of men and women, and don't subscribe to the handbook of man hating bitch I guess, or even worse, woman hating bitch because she dares to enjoy being a woman and call herself a feminist. Blah. But hey thanks for the psychoanlysis, it was interesting.

You're not a feminist.  My mother rose to the top of her profession, won multiple awards, and did it all without sleeping with the boss or using her feminine wiles to get one over her male co-workers.  She achieved by playing by the same set of rules as the men she worked alongside.  That's a feminist.

What you are is the reason men resent women in the workplace; you are unfair competition they can't compete with.  You are the reason women get sexually harassed by co-workers and by employers.  You are the opposite of a feminist; a tool of patriarchy.  Neither of which is important, but seriously.  If you think fucking the boss and flirting with customers to make a sale is feminist, then you've really got no idea what feminism is.

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As such, misandry is far more understandable- and marginally more excusable- than misogyny.

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ORIGINAL: osf

i'm the boss and all i have is a goose, a fucking domme goose at that

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88

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ORIGINAL: osf

i'm the boss and all i have is a goose, a fucking domme goose at that

Morning osf, another insomniac? Well don"t feel so badly I have some puritans trying to cook my goose for being to flirtatious. Damn it. My poor trampy Goose. At lease she made quota this month, and then some. She should take Domme Goose out for some foie gras, let me know? .

Oops, now I will get called out for flirting with you. Damn it, just can't win. Fuck 'em.

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She hates what she doesn't understand. It's very common in our society.....and apparently hers too.

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According to the Sex ID Test , I have a man's brain.

Don't let the boobs fool you, baby.

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There is a difference between prejudice and sexism/racism that is getting lost in your argument, and that difference needs to be acknowledged and respected.  The reality is that prejudice is far more problematic and dangerous in groups with power than groups without it.  That's why I prefer to use terms like "racially radicalized" to describe African-Americans with strong prejudices against whites, rather than terms like "reverse racism" or the tragically misleading "racism."

And it is more excusable for a black person to be racially radicalized than it is for a white person to be racist, simply because radicalization is a reaction to the real harm caused by racism.  The anger of the disenfranchised and dispossessed is always more legitimate than the fear of the privileged and powerful.

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ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I've never done sales.  I have these things called "ethics."

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ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

Without going into a whole thing about white supremacy being the root cause of inter-racial tensions, I'll just point out that neither inner city blacks and Asian or Middle Eastern shop owners is a particularly powerful or influential group, and their prejudices have almost no impact outside of their interactions.  In the grand scheme of things the racial prejudices of these two groups towards each other is as relevant as the fandom prejudices Star Wars and Star Trek geeks hold against each other.

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The idea of some form of racism separate from white supremacy is silly.  Racism is white supremacy, they're the same thing.  And please bear in mind that by white supremacy I do not mean neo-nazis. 

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The error in your thinking is the wrong-headed assumption that in a melting pot everyone would come to embrace European-American values.  The reality is that most of the growth and progress in the West in the last 50+ years has been a result of Western thinkers shedding colonialist assumptions about manifest destiny and the white man's burden and opening up to the ideas, perspectives and values of other cultures.

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ORIGINAL: osf

i'm the boss and all i have is a goose, a fucking domme goose at that