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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 9:00:30 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

Brevity is the soul of wit.
True, but this is the written, not the spoken word - if it were, The Metamorphosis would read:

"A guy turns into a bug? Ewww".

"Lulz, suks to be him".

(in reply to DarlingSavage)
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 9:00:55 AM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Meh. Fans of Eddie Izzard know better.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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(in reply to DarlingSavage)
Profile   Post #: 982
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 9:13:15 AM   
xssve


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And, if you look, intellectual discourse is right up there on the list of fetishes next to giant butt plugs.

Who am I to deny your depraved desires?

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 983
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 9:24:38 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

Brevity is the soul of wit.


For some, not for others.


_____________________________

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Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to DarlingSavage)
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 11:32:08 AM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

Brevity is the soul of wit.


Ah, but eloquence is its heart.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 12:17:17 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 783
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Ok, believe it or not, I am sincerely confused here. This appears to be contradictory, to me, at least.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
Human action is always on the level of personal interaction, and ethics are concerned with human action. {...} Group dynamics aside, there is no such thing as a collective action, just conglomerates of individual actions which give rise to the illusion of collective action.


...&...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
I'm fine with a friendly little scuffle, but I don't think that's the same thing as joing in with a bunch of other people to mob someone. As soon as it becomes a mob mentality, with people engaging in "two minutes of hate" style rhetoric, sitrring each other up, then I bail. I won't be part of a gang-rape. And I don't think comparing me being kind of a dick to people getting caught up in a mob is actually a reasonable comparison.


...see? Am I just exceedingly high on sunshine & blue skies right now?

~K

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 3:19:16 PM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
Human action is always on the level of personal interaction, and ethics are concerned with human action. {...} Group dynamics aside, there is no such thing as a collective action, just conglomerates of individual actions which give rise to the illusion of collective action.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
I'm fine with a friendly little scuffle, but I don't think that's the same thing as joing in with a bunch of other people to mob someone. As soon as it becomes a mob mentality, with people engaging in "two minutes of hate" style rhetoric, sitrring each other up, then I bail. I won't be part of a gang-rape. And I don't think comparing me being kind of a dick to people getting caught up in a mob is actually a reasonable comparison.


You talk about collective action above Psyconaut and then contradict below, whining about mob mentality. maybe we took collective action against a nuisance. And it was moral and just because you were name calling. I did appreciate people coming to my defense that I dont even know because you whined about being attacked first and then called me an idiot without provocation. Or maybe thats what you were talking to me about when defining Universability?

You're really whiney when it comes to you, but out for the kill when it comes to seeing a point of attack. Bottom line, when acting like a bully expect to become picked on yourself. Expect to get dirty when you play in the mud.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 1/6/2010 3:59:06 PM >


_____________________________

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Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
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Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to Kimveri)
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 3:44:01 PM   
EbonyWood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19




You talk about collective action above Psyconaut and then contradict below, whining about mob mentality. maybe we took collective action against a nuisance. And it was moral and just because you were name calling. I did appreciate people coming to my defense that I dont even know because you whined about being attacked first and then called me an idiot wothout provocation. Or maybe thats what you were talking to me about when defining Universability?

You're really whiney when it comes to you, but out for the kill when it comes to seeing a point of attack. Bottom line, when acting like a bully expect to become picked on yourself. Expect to get dirty when you play in the mud.


Nah Lushy, you haven't factored in the backpedalling that is still bound to come. Perceived escape from self inflicted intellectual bondage is stock in trade. Stand by for a bunch of " I never sad that"s.
 
Loathe as I am to participate in post mortem of a long cold corpse, when it comes to light that we didn't collude to throw rocks at a poor leper, maybe the oaf will realize that when 9 out of 10 doctors tell you that your problem is that you're a total asshole, you will think about not acting like a total asshole.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 988
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 3:59:45 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

And fuck the first person who tries to say that a mob ganging up on one person for utterly piddly shit is fair or right.  You're a fucking creep if you think that.


C'mon... there's a difference between drawing fire and coming under fire.



Exactly.

Waaaay back when, when I asked why Psychonaut was criticizing the ethics of others when his own were hardly above reproach, he said that it's fun to mention things that make other people shriek and scurry for his amusement.

While I tend to shy away from saying people "deserve" something (for good or bad) I think this is one situation where it might fit.

Psychonaut you intentionally created a chaotic situation. You posted with the intention of pushing buttons and it's nobody's fault but your own that you spent all your time studying philosophy and none studying social dynamics.

Next time RTFM and don't push the button labelled "make everyone hate you" because the only, I repeat ONLY reason this "mob" formed in the sense of "everyone against you" is because you decided to set yourself apart as the button-pusher.

And yeah. If someone comes in with the intent to agitate (note how I specified intent, if you just held a minority opinion then I wouldn't agree, but you made your intent clear) then yeah. I do think it's okay for a "mob" to tear them to shreds.

Don't gamble on winning if you can't cover your losses.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 1/6/2010 4:01:53 PM >

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 989
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 4:16:50 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

To get back to your 1:99 ratio, there is a lower limit on how far genetic diversity can be minimized and still maintain a healthy population, a biologist could tell what it is, but in any case, among humans, males who are willing to help defray female reproductive costs constribute more than semen, they contribute resources, and social enrichment (MPI) thus further enhancing and accelerating the neotenic developmental dynamic.

In the really, really, short version of this - things are the way they are, whatever they are, for a reason, it's very useful to study it, but trying to second guess it amounts to jumping to conclusions that may prove unsupportable after all the other complexities are factored in.


Oh no doubt, and I admit my example was an extreme one (any "pick one or the other" example tends to be extreme) and while I'd agree it's far from ideal, I do think that the benefits of switching to quick-easy-disposable reproduction for a couple of generations in a postapocalyptic situation would be beneficial in the long run. In an inherently unstable environment that threatens the end of the species, the goal is not "make sure my child survives" but rather "make sure enough children make it to adulthood to breed" and once the immediate threat was over, obviously we would go back to a K-strategy type society, but by that time I presume we'd have enough males to balance out.

Interestingly I once read that 70% of our ancestors are female. That would suggest that a 70:30 ratio would be ideal for reproduction, but I'd disagree with that. I'd argue that the reason a 50:50 gender split is ideal is because men are more easily disposable. 30% men would mean they all had to reproduce. 50% men means 30% can reproduce and 20% can die in war.

To get back to the OP, nature seems to be quite misandrist ;) I could go into a long theory about how I believe nature's misandry created social misogyny but, well, I don't know if anyone wants to hear it.

quote:


The sort of abstract social schemes to watch out for are essentially those that attempt to compete by reducing overall diversity, representing competition to specific instantiations of the broader pattern, Christianity vs. Islam for example, the "clash of civilizations" - they are both really simply slightly different instantiations of the same meta pattern that stress slightly different externalities - the fundamentalists of both resemble each other more closely than they resemble the semi-urban industrial parent cultures in which they are embedded in 20th century terms. Christianity reflects an agrarian social/economic value system, Islam a pastoral one, is the major distinction.


That's a really good point, I've never really considered it that way. I've always just rolled my eyes at fundamentalist Christians because I don't see them as violent, the way I see fundamentalist Muslims.

The strange thing to me is that when fundamentalist Christians get violent, it's usually against their own society - bombing abortion clinics is really the first and only thing that comes to mind. Fundamentalist Muslims on the other hand tend to get violent against other societies, 9/11 being the "big" example of it, as well as embassy bombings. Any ideas on why that would be?

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 1/6/2010 4:52:44 PM >

(in reply to xssve)
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 4:24:24 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Next time RTFM and don't push the button labelled "make everyone hate you" because the only, I repeat ONLY reason this "mob" formed in the sense of "everyone against you" is because you decided to set yourself apart as the button-pusher.


Lol. I love you, man. (I think I'm supposed to hand you a Bud Lt or something. Damn marketers infiltrating my brain.)

Funny thing is, I think psychonaut has displayed enough intelligence, humor, and self-deprecating attitude in random spots that if he'd just calm the fuck down he'd be fine. It's almost like he's role playing this big bad character. If he'd just "settle" for being himself, rather than this monster Dom he has in his mind as the way to attract the ladies, I think he'd enjoy himself more. I could be wrong. Regardless -- Elisabella=funny.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 991
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 4:38:56 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Next time RTFM and don't push the button labelled "make everyone hate you" because the only, I repeat ONLY reason this "mob" formed in the sense of "everyone against you" is because you decided to set yourself apart as the button-pusher.



Actually I don't for one second believe there was a mob at all. That's another Psychofabrication.
 
I ignore professional agitators. osf, unfortunately, comes to mind. A troll can have a measure of sophistication, I guess.
 
Nope, my responses were based on him being wrong, the manner that wrongness was conveyed, and the tactic of attempted belittling of others, thinly veiled or otherwise. Oh, and the "I didn't call you an idiot" fiasco.
 
Agitation will bring focus on the agitator and not the ideas. Thoughtful posters don't do it. Maybe that's the point.
 
 

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 992
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 4:48:59 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

Lol. I love you, man. (I think I'm supposed to hand you a Bud Lt or something. Damn marketers infiltrating my brain.)

Funny thing is, I think psychonaut has displayed enough intelligence, humor, and self-deprecating attitude in random spots that if he'd just calm the fuck down he'd be fine. It's almost like he's role playing this big bad character. If he'd just "settle" for being himself, rather than this monster Dom he has in his mind as the way to attract the ladies, I think he'd enjoy himself more. I could be wrong. Regardless -- Elisabella=funny.



Awww now you're making me blush. Don't need the Bud Light, I'm steadily making my way through the non-alcoholic sparkly grape juice that was supposed to be for the wedding but someone forgot to buy groceries (in my defence he didn't buy them either! er. right.) and if my laziness and thirst outweigh my sense of decency I'll move on to the champagne next.

It's totally almost noon

But yeah I agree, he's smart and he can be really witty at times. I think it would be cool if he stayed, but right now I think he's prioritizing "argument" above "conversation" or "socialization" and I think that's going to give bad results.

Haha now we're dissecting him in the third person. I kinda feel bad. But then again it just means he's interesting enough to keep talking about.

So it's a compliment!

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 1/6/2010 4:49:19 PM >

(in reply to Lucienne)
Profile   Post #: 993
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 7:26:20 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 783
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline
Psychonaut,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
...man, that's not fair.  You can't leave an opening like that and then not expect me to say "You're high on something, that's for sure."


Hehe...s'ok...I was muchly preoccupied by the delectable weather here in Vegas today - 60 degrees, sunny, deep blue sky....just another GAWJUSSS January day! (Yeah, I'm being an ass myself ;-p)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
Would you consider it a valid defense for any individual in that mob to say "I'm not at fault for my actions, I was caught up in a mob and had no control over myself." Of course not. 


Agreed....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
But that doesn't mean that it's not possible to get swept up in a mob.  It just means that if you let yourself get swept up in a mob, and do something bad because the mob is doing it, then you're at fault.


Agreed, again....however....

If you get caught up by a mob (aka a group of individuals electing to misbehave in concert) & in response to their behavior you also elect to misbehave in an effort to deprive them of their goal....then all of ya indahvijals is misbehavin'!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23
I won't be part of a gang-rape. And I don't think comparing me being kind of a dick to people getting caught up in a mob is actually a reasonable comparison.


First, you chose to run into the proverbial CM alley yelling obscenities at the crowd of drooling forum-gang-bangers. You didn't HAVE to incite them, you chose to do so for "amusement". Now that you see they consist of more than fluff & slobber you wanna cry foul & blame THEM? LMAO ...mmm-kay....

Bottom line..each person makes their choices, for whateverfuckingreason they have, & owns the consequences (foreseen & unforeseen) or they get tagged as less than a mature responsible adult.

Kinda tough to convince anyone to follow your lead when that's yer rep, see?

You just need to own your choices AND the consequences....like the backlash being WAY worse than just "amusing".


Oh, & by the way...Glad to see you sticking it out, dude. I may not enjoy your overly-sensitive "insist I'm superior so they don't realize I ain't" sorta method, but you got a quick mind. I may learn something from your exchanges....

...ya'll din't think I was here for anything except myself, didja?

Adios!

~K

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 7:29:28 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve
And, if you look, intellectual discourse is right up there on the list of fetishes next to giant butt plugs.


Except giant butt plugs are easier to find.

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 995
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 7:52:10 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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Lord I hope so, imagine losing one? Ohhh nevermind.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 996
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 8:01:53 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
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quote:



...ya'll din't think I was here for anything except myself, didja?

Adios!

~K


And I thought you were just here for me to admire?

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 1/6/2010 8:02:12 PM >


_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to Kimveri)
Profile   Post #: 997
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 8:08:53 PM   
Kimveri


Posts: 783
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19
And I thought you were just here for me to admire?


*grins & runs off to check the "who's pervin' yer profile" list to see when luscious "admired" me...ponders new pics...*

;-P

*drags me ass back in, all sad & snarly*

You TEASE! That's so cruel! You NEVER ever "admired" me! I'm just....just....*sobs*....crushed, dammit!

< Message edited by Kimveri -- 1/6/2010 8:10:51 PM >


_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 998
RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 8:12:37 PM   
MarcEsadrian


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
Fundamentalist Muslims on the other hand tend to get violent against other societies, 9/11 being the "big" example of it, as well as embassy bombings. Any ideas on why that would be?


Actually, that's not really true, when you stop to consider organizations like the Taliban, which arose during Afghanistan's long and violent civil war. I'm sure you'll recall that once coming to full power, their conservative interpretations of Sharia law set the stage for plenty of violence and oppression against their own people, especially women. "Modesty police" were just one example. Another might be public executions in the dilapidated state sports arena, also where adulterers were being stoned to death and the limbs of thieves were gruesomely amputated. They carted in the condemned on pick-up trucks and performed these terrible acts while the crowd cheered "God is great". Of course, lesser crimes were punished by public beatings, or so I'm told.

Then there's the chemical weapons attack upon the Kurdish population in Iraq, who are Sunni Muslims. Or the countless IED and suicide bomb victims who are Muslim. The clerical uprisings and tribal feuds, and so on and so forth. The history between Iraq and Iran remains to be considered, too.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to Elisabella)
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/6/2010 8:23:56 PM   
EbonyWood


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I guess with this thread it's too late to say that's off topic. 

Unless you suggest an element of it is based on misogyny.

I don't blame anyone not taking it to Politics. The pies are flying as usual.

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)
Profile   Post #: 1000
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