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Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:16:08 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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So:

Have you consented to be governed?

I would place my bet on all of you did!


That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?

Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules?

This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract?





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session
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RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:34:24 AM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So:

Have you consented to be governed?



What qualifies as having consented? ... or if easier, what disqualifies?

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:35:11 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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I wonder if any of ya'll thought of that?  :)


Here is the definition:

Definition of Consent








Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:38:35 AM   
cpK69


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Real, if I could read that shit, I'd be a lawyer.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:42:08 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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Consent Definition Continued


of course these are legal definitions not web-o-nary





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:50:58 AM   
Musicmystery


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"Pedantic" comes to mind.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:53:38 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

Real, if I could read that shit, I'd be a lawyer.

Kim


ok well this is partly about the declaration of independence and where do we fit into this picture.

here are the webonary definitions:

quote:

CONSENT. An agreement to something proposed, and differs from assent. (
   2. Consent is either express or implied. Express, when it is given viva voce, or in writing; implied, when it is manifested by signs, actions, or facts, or by inaction or silence, which raise a presumption that the consent has been given.


and of course this reflects back on the DOI

quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.



We need to understand the meaning of consent I think to know if we consented?


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/1/2010 8:55:55 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:54:48 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

"Pedantic" comes to mind.


thats the way law is.....is it not?


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 8:59:31 AM   
Musicmystery


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I wasn't speaking of the law.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 9:07:46 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I wasn't speaking of the law.


Oh then I am sorry that I do not know how your usage applies to this thread because the constitution and its associated counterparts, BOR, DOI, AOC that set forth the governance of America et al are all based in law.

Everyone talks about the constitution in literally every thread...so I will clarify it for you then that the OP is about law, specifically con law and its elements.



I think its a good thing to understand the nature of governance in this country.


Thats not to say its all about legal definitions but people should from this be able to draw distinctions and relate to their own situations being governed and how they came to be governed

Do you know how you came to be governed?



.


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/1/2010 9:29:10 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 9:29:20 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

ok well this is partly about the declaration of independence and where do we fit into this picture.



Eeeep!!

I sense my perception on this topic is not one of favorable popularity.

Then again, I don't sit around doing this:

quote:

why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?


So, I will agree with you on this:

quote:

We need to understand the meaning of consent I think to know if we consented?


And recess for deliberation, for awhile.

Kim

< Message edited by cpK69 -- 1/1/2010 9:33:03 AM >


_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 3:46:57 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
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What I've noticed of late is that RealOne has bought a new scanner and he's going to use it.

Personally I didn't consent to being governed and I've not signed anything that says I can be. Although people tell me to drive on the left I see this as totally optional.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

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RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 3:51:50 PM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
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Chia pet's posts are usually more chipper. Huh.

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RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/1/2010 4:08:54 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

What I've noticed of late is that RealOne has bought a new scanner and he's going to use it.

Personally I didn't consent to being governed and I've not signed anything that says I can be. Although people tell me to drive on the left I see this as totally optional.


Not on the M25 it aint. I drove on the right once and was killed. I wont make that mistake again, I can tell you.

Casper.

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/2/2010 7:31:21 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

ok well this is partly about the declaration of independence and where do we fit into this picture.



Eeeep!!

I sense my perception on this topic is not one of favorable popularity.

Then again, I don't sit around doing this:

quote:

why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?


So, I will agree with you on this:

quote:

We need to understand the meaning of consent I think to know if we consented?


And recess for deliberation, for awhile.

Kim



Yes its why I put up the definition of "subject to" as used in the 14th amendment.

If people knew what these definitions really mean in "law" which is what the constitution is agreed to be they would go into shock that they are by definition "inferior", "subservient to" "subjects",
long story short OWNED!  by the government as chattel property.

Hopefully it stimulates some thoought such that people will pick up a law dictionary, (well worth the couple bucks), and look up even some of the simplest words because they have so abused dictionaries we have grown up to be illiterate idiots.

US citizens will stand on their soap box and brag about how free they are when they truly have no clue what so ever what they are saying or how it applies to them.

"but it sounds good!"


oh most of th estuff I put up is from blacks 4th unless they did the old switcheroo which they often like to do to shift the meaning slightly from the original intent....then I go back to dictionaries at the time of th econstitution....





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/2/2010 7:49:22 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/2/2010 8:11:45 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Have you consented to be governed?



What do you mean by being governed?

I've consented to abiding by majority rule providing the government act as a referee in resolving individual disputes.

I haven't however consented to the Prime Minister lying to Parliament and engaging the country in an illegal war as per international law. So - if you mean have I consented to absolutism and Machiavellian ideas that it is acceptable for the state to lie to the people because the state knows what's in the interests of the people - then the answer is no.

I'm more than happy to give up a small portion of my salary (i.e. taxes) so that we can invest in schools and hospitals and maintain a society that can co-exist in some sort of economic and social harmony. I've certainly consented to that.

I'm not so happy about paying taxes to fund war - any war - but then I've agreed to go with majority rule so win some lose some.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?



Perhaps some people are moaning; others see a dangerous situation where our political framework is being ridden rough-shod because our Prime Minister thinks he knows best and we'll thank him for it later. The most galling thing about it is that Britain is a secular nation where the majority think the notion of divine intervention is absolutely ludicrous (yet our ex-Prime Minister ignores that and goes running round on some Christian mission in a place we know nothing of and care less still).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules?



Absolutely. The whole point of the rule of law and government is that everyone knows where they stand - you have an appeal but ultimately you abide by the rules.

As per the above - our ex-Prime Minister didn't play by the established rules.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract?



I'd agree to an extent. You can't please everyone all of the time - but you can play by the rules. Tony Blair is under investigation as we speak and it seems that the evidence suggests he committed a series of minor crimes under British law. It's a good sign that he has being forced to explain himself - let's see if the law holds him accountable and locks him up.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/2/2010 9:32:09 AM   
Termyn8or


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Gent, seems to me you already have a better understanding of US law than 80% of the people in this contry. I am not being sarcastic, people really are that ignorant here.

Real, if you ever get near Cleveland, mail me and I'll get some beer and whatever other substance we might enjoy. You really do need to stop by. I would look forward to a talk about how we can beat these MFs at their own game. I know they wipe their ass with the Constitution, but if one knows, knows how to make something a matter of public record, and knows when not to, to simply use the threat of same, one can prevail not only against a given case, but the law itself. One gets alot freer knowing how to use the contemporary tools of a free Man.

And to all, within whatever framework you were born, fighting the system is not easy. Any of us who knows these things do not pick a fight with Mammon. However for each, the time comes.

In relation to John Schott for example, the nephew I think of the ex-owner of the Cincinnati Bengals or something, he went after his rights in toto. Bought a new car for cash, demanded the MSO and forbade them to issue an Ohio title. This guy was serious about his rights, but he did fall into that YHWH shit, and he failed. He is dead now but that car, a GMC Jimmy, lives on. With an Ohio title to the vehicle they can take possesion and dispose of it. Can't do that with an MSO which is the true proof of ownership. He's been dead for a few years now, but the GMC Jimmy lives on. Because he was the holder of the MSO, they cannot legally gain rights to that vehicle, and it will sit there in impound until it literally rusts away to nothing.

In that way he sort of stuck it up their ass, but in the end what did it get him ? He would be just as dead now, GMC Jimmy or not. The net result was that he spent twenty grand on a car that he drove for a matter of days, but never again. I built him a PC in those days and this issue caused an argument, with him claiming it was my fault if he lost his "truck" because his PC was not ready yet. I wouldn't have picked this fight. What I would've done is to get a garage somewhere, pay the towing and storage and insisted that they return my property. hey can't let you drive out of impound without plates, nor can they even place the vehicle in a normally legal parking spot. But they can deliver it to a garage. After that request any storage charges are null and void, but no, John wanted more. What he failed to realize is that governments do not capatitulate to the People. Right or wrong, this is truth. If you want to influence them in your favor in any way, you must either embarrass them into it, or use the threat of embarrasment. (fuck sp for now).

But in the end my answer is NO. I did not consent to be governed and I am not governed. I do whatever I damn well please, as I have since I was 12, except for that time in jail.

It doesn't matter whether you beat the case with a good mouthpiece or foundations in Law, all that matters is that you won. I am not proud of the times I used a lawyer, even though said lawyer could have the judge crawling under the bench. All I care is winning. My next round with them is going to involve about three years of my time and around ten grand in fines. All I care is if I win, not how I win. After I see how it goes I'll make those decisions then. I will adapt. In other words I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. (I love saying that).

For example if some Fudook Assad Hussein Akma gets away with raping twenty virgins in bumfucked Egypt somewhere, do what he did. Law varies widely on this rock, and I don't even pretend to understand the whole of US law, much less that of another country.

Actuallly saying that I am not governed is impossible. I use my turn signals as required, I drive like it is my driving test and there is a cop right behind me all the time. I also have the utmost regard for the safety of others. I turn the music down at ten or eleven, even though I know none of the neighbors would dare call the cops on me. This is not out of fear in any way, they actually want me to stick around. I similarly don't run around shooting people because I don't like them, or anything of the sort.

In a way all of us are governed, and really, some who govern themselves do alot better job at it than any external influence ever could.

T

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/2/2010 6:33:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
Real, no. The people in our govt are the hired help, not the management.
We are "citizens" not "subjects."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/2/2010 6:47:46 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Have you consented to be governed?



What do you mean by being governed?

I've consented to abiding by majority rule providing the government act as a referee in resolving individual disputes.

I haven't however consented to the Prime Minister lying to Parliament and engaging the country in an illegal war as per international law. So - if you mean have I consented to absolutism and Machiavellian ideas that it is acceptable for the state to lie to the people because the state knows what's in the interests of the people - then the answer is no.

I'm more than happy to give up a small portion of my salary (i.e. taxes) so that we can invest in schools and hospitals and maintain a society that can co-exist in some sort of economic and social harmony. I've certainly consented to that.

I'm not so happy about paying taxes to fund war - any war - but then I've agreed to go with majority rule so win some lose some.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?



Perhaps some people are moaning; others see a dangerous situation where our political framework is being ridden rough-shod because our Prime Minister thinks he knows best and we'll thank him for it later. The most galling thing about it is that Britain is a secular nation where the majority think the notion of divine intervention is absolutely ludicrous (yet our ex-Prime Minister ignores that and goes running round on some Christian mission in a place we know nothing of and care less still).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules?



Absolutely. The whole point of the rule of law and government is that everyone knows where they stand - you have an appeal but ultimately you abide by the rules.

As per the above - our ex-Prime Minister didn't play by the established rules.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract?



I'd agree to an extent. You can't please everyone all of the time - but you can play by the rules. Tony Blair is under investigation as we speak and it seems that the evidence suggests he committed a series of minor crimes under British law. It's a good sign that he has being forced to explain himself - let's see if the law holds him accountable and locks him up.


You want it, I want it, the country wants it, but that slippy slimy little fuck will get away with it, he has too many friends in influential places, hence his current occupation, peace envoy.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Did you consent to be governed? - 1/4/2010 5:32:30 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
I shouldn’t have said I can’t read the information you posted. It is more accurate to say; my acute ability to detect ‘discrepancy’, causes glitches in my thinking on a given topic.

I was born into a situation; did I consent? I was told what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ by my elders, and believed; did I consent? If I vote, but for “we the people”, does voting at all imply I consent?

Perhaps what I really wanted to inquire about is how does one stop consenting without totally disconnecting themselves from humanity?

Side note: Am I wrong in thinking, according to the information in post #3; many ‘consent’ in a similar fashion as those faced with the circumstances of rape?

Kim


_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 20
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