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RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/3/2010 3:08:49 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
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From: The Great Frozen North
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Sorry, Speeder, could you please edit this post and divide it up into paragraphs? It's hard to read as one long paragraph.

Thanks,

zeph

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(in reply to speeder)

Post #: 41

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/3/2010 5:52:42 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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Rules and guideline? Well they are what you and your wife agree them to be. There are however many here who would happily tell you what has worked for them. LadyPact I'm sure will offer her advice and support and she is well worth listening to.

First of all, he doesn't need to set her "free," she can tell him to pound salt whenever she has had enough of his nonsense. His little "reminders" to you that he can tell her to quit her job, get rid of the dog, sell her half of the house, etc. are pretty much....true. He can tell her anything he wants. He can tell her that she has to spend the rest of her life walking around on her hands. Doesn't mean a damn thing. Does her job contribute to the marital home and finances? Is the dog also yours? As for the house, a marital home is not deeded in such a way that 1/2 of it can be sold on the whim of this fool.

She obviously knows something isn't quite right and smartly chose her sister over him. Sounds like this guy really wants to show you that he is in charge of your wife and there isn't a thing you can do about it. Stand your ground and remind him that your marriage and her responsibilities to that and her family come before him.

I'm curious why she seems to believe you can't be her dominant/master? I applaud your desire to go to whatever lengths necessary to please your wife. It really is an admirable trait. I think one of the first things you need to make clear is that regardless of her newfound desires and needs, she can't let it interfere with your household in such a way that would be harmful. I'm going to assume that you have had some experience seeing what it is that has attracted her to this man or the one before. What they have done, how they have dominated her. Surely, when she approached you with this need, she gave you some indication of what those needs were?

What I'm thinking is that throughout your marriage, your behavior has been the loving, kind husband who wouldn't hurt a fly. This might be what is making her say that you "can't" dominate her or be a master to her. Ordinarily, I would never suggest this, but perhaps since she is looking to be a slave, it is time you stopped asking her why you can't be her master and just start being her master. Start with a phone call to the loser and tell him that he's fired (for lack of a better term). Then take all the control your wife seems to desire, starting with taking away her cell phone or locking it so that she can only call home, your work, your cell and her sister, after you change the number so mr. "uberdom" can't call her and tell her to do something else.

You want to learn, there are plenty here that can advise you quite well. Look around the boards, there is plenty of advice. Seems that starting with taking away her cell phone, computer and everything else and telling her that she can earn them back with proper behavior might be a good start.

On the other hand, I'm afraid that she might just be saying that you "can't" be her dominant or master because that would not allow her the opportunity to play with others. If that's the case, you're kind of screwed.

(in reply to speeder)

Post #: 42

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/4/2010 11:54:18 PM

ceebee

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

I do not want to throw 14 years of marriage down the drain but dont know what to do.

She already has. She has crossed the boundary of your relationship, by lying to you and not getting your approval for factors that influence your home life. She will continue lying now that she has found she can walk all over you. Let her have her ways, go see an attourney, file, lock her out. There is no way back.

As someone with a vanilla husband, i am doing the heebee jeebees right about now. Yes, the legal husband is nilla , but there is no way on Gods green earth he would let some other man live in his house and fuck his wife- and support his worthless ass at the same time! Jeesh.

The nilla man thing would be so far gone gone gone if he even knew about the dominant man thing, I don't even want to think about an ugly scenelike moving him in.

Pack you stuff, take the kids and the money, and run. Commiting adultery under your nose in your own damn house is certainly grounds enough to let you walk away from the marriage without alimony and with full custody if applicable.

Screw "supporting" her in her "decisions", she has blatantly disregarded your feelings and generally treated you like crap. Find a good attorney and cut your losses.

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 43

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 12:08:45 AM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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Want my actually semi-serious advice?

Take this whole debacle onto a talk-show. Write a book about it. Make good money from the book and find a lovely woman to be seduced by, have her move in and tell your wife things are going to be "different now" around the house.

Okay. I lied.

I'm entirely serious.

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(in reply to DrkJourney)

Post #: 44

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 4:20:24 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
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Speeder your text is too big a block to read comfortably

And i think your wife is taking the piss or has some kind of lunatic attack...

If you want to try and salvage the marriage at all... well i think you have to put the choice of YOU or him to her...
it is such a mess i think the only way of straigthening anything out is just between the two of you... or not at all
maybe her sister and kids could find other lodgings as soon as possible too... alternatively maybe you could take your wife on a holiday somewhere boring, close to a beach perhaps, to create some time to talk about the mess undisturbed and get some air.
(or drown her... only joking)

If you will allow her to have extra marrital affairs i suggest that maybe you yourself look for a suitable partner for her as obviously someone who disrespects you so much just will not do.
Also as LafayetteLady suggest take her computer and phone away from her... man up and show her her place.

(ETA i totally agree but i am surprised at this advice from you LafayetteLady considering the other 'i don't know what to do' thread... where you seem to think it is ok for the man not to do anything.... and this is obviously the mess that might ensue from doing nothing)

< Message edited by ranja -- 1/5/2010 4:44:45 AM >

(in reply to speeder)

Post #: 45

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 6:41:48 AM

ceebee

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/28/2005
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After some consideration, there is an option to running with the kids and money- find yourself a nice sex slave with a job, move her into the bedroom, leaving all the fun of household drudgery to wifey, and see how much she likes them apples. Might change her thinking a bit.

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 46

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 2:23:58 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ceebee

Pack you stuff, take the kids and the money, and run. Commiting adultery under your nose in your own damn house is certainly grounds enough to let you walk away from the marriage without alimony and with full custody if applicable.

Each state has their own laws. Most states follow a "no fault" divorce model. "No fault" simply means that regardless of the reason for the divorce it does not affect a settlement. "No fault" and "grounds" are different terms with different meanings. Although there was no mention of children in this situation, if he CHOSE to divulge what she is doing in the complaint, yes he has a good case for sole legal and physical custody. That is the legal term that people are thinking of when they use the non-legal "full custody." As for alimony, depending on his state, the liklihood of her behavior letting him off "scot free" is unlikely. Alimony is decided by the contributions to the marriage and the needs of each partner. In the "average" case (read "not involving great sums of money") permanent alimony is becoming a thing of the past, and since these days most often both partners are working, the courts only attempt to equal any disparity in income.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ceebee

Screw "supporting" her in her "decisions", she has blatantly disregarded your feelings and generally treated you like crap. Find a good attorney and cut your losses.

While I completely agree that cutting his losses would be the least difficult option in the case of the OP, I find it kind of odd that someone who admits to committing adultery would advise taking all the marital income and the children and leaving the cheating spouse high and dry. Granted, you aren't doing it under your spouse's nose, but it doesn't really make your behavior any better. How you would feel if your husband did that to you?

(in reply to ceebee)

Post #: 47

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 2:36:30 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

(ETA i totally agree but i am surprised at this advice from you LafayetteLady considering the other 'i don't know what to do' thread... where you seem to think it is ok for the man not to do anything.... and this is obviously the mess that might ensue from doing nothing)

I never suggested that man do "nothing." Perhaps you need to read again and get a better understanding of what I said. First of all the other poster was engaging in the kink activities with his wife, she just didn't think he was enjoying it enough for her liking. I also pointed out that his post indicates that his wife was not looking for 24/7 domination, but appeared to want kinky sex games when she read certain explicit type novels.

The issues that exist between this OP and the other thread are MILES apart. It's sad that you can't understand that and even sadder that you called the man in the other thread who came looking for help "lazy."

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 48

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 5:00:17 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

Well, it looks like that is that..He now owns your wife. Nothing can be done about that. These things can't be altered not even in a court of law.

Was she hot? If not, Maybe it's a God send. So you lose the house, the dog and your wife now must shit on command I would think this guy has done you a huge favor.

How is her sister looking these days?

It's all about the options available.

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(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 49

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 5:20:02 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 50

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/5/2010 7:32:09 PM

ceebee

Posts: 33
Joined: 7/28/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: ceebee

Pack you stuff, take the kids and the money, and run. Commiting adultery under your nose in your own damn house is certainly grounds enough to let you walk away from the marriage without alimony and with full custody if applicable.

Each state has their own laws. Most states follow a "no fault" divorce model. "No fault" simply means that regardless of the reason for the divorce it does not affect a settlement. "No fault" and "grounds" are different terms with different meanings. Although there was no mention of children in this situation, if he CHOSE to divulge what she is doing in the complaint, yes he has a good case for sole legal and physical custody. That is the legal term that people are thinking of when they use the non-legal "full custody." As for alimony, depending on his state, the liklihood of her behavior letting him off "scot free" is unlikely. Alimony is decided by the contributions to the marriage and the needs of each partner. In the "average" case (read "not involving great sums of money") permanent alimony is becoming a thing of the past, and since these days most often both partners are working, the courts only attempt to equal any disparity in income.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ceebee

Screw "supporting" her in her "decisions", she has blatantly disregarded your feelings and generally treated you like crap. Find a good attorney and cut your losses.

While I completely agree that cutting his losses would be the least difficult option in the case of the OP, I find it kind of odd that someone who admits to committing adultery would advise taking all the marital income and the children and leaving the cheating spouse high and dry. Granted, you aren't doing it under your spouse's nose, but it doesn't really make your behavior any better. How you would feel if your husband did that to you?

First of all, I'd like to suggest my behavior is far different than the wife in question. Cee and I have an agreement that suits us both fine- vanilla opbligations come first. Period. No negotiation. We do not ever intrude upon each others personal lives. He has his own job and house, and most certainly does not need to move into mine, nor would he be so presumptuous as to interfer with the marital finances or dynamics. I also do not impose on his, if i happen to have a free evening and he has plans with is adult child or other family members, no problem.

We are really no different than the numerous other married people who play on the side; we ended up with lives that are not neccessarily an accurate reflection of who we are, and so we meet those needs not understood by others in our own way. That does not mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak by throwing our kink into the face of others, or completely disrupting our families because we get off on leather and handcuffs.

i still say the OP needs to cut his losses, if he doesn't get it, he doesn't get it; and judging from his wifes actions, she really doesn't give a damn about him or the marriage anymore.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 51

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/6/2010 1:20:02 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ceebee

First of all, I'd like to suggest my behavior is far different than the wife in question. Cee and I have an agreement that suits us both fine- vanilla opbligations come first. Period. No negotiation. We do not ever intrude upon each others personal lives. He has his own job and house, and most certainly does not need to move into mine, nor would he be so presumptuous as to interfer with the marital finances or dynamics. I also do not impose on his, if i happen to have a free evening and he has plans with is adult child or other family members, no problem.

We are really no different than the numerous other married people who play on the side; we ended up with lives that are not neccessarily an accurate reflection of who we are, and so we meet those needs not understood by others in our own way. That does not mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak by throwing our kink into the face of others, or completely disrupting our families because we get off on leather and handcuffs.

i still say the OP needs to cut his losses, if he doesn't get it, he doesn't get it; and judging from his wifes actions, she really doesn't give a damn about him or the marriage anymore.

Yes, she did it right under his nose as opposed to behind his back. There's been quite the discussion of these situations over on another thread. "Married People and the Lifestyle"

Look I really have no interest in bashing your choices. I was merely pointing out that even though you are being discrete, you are putting yourself in a position for your spouse to do to you what you suggested the OP do to his wife.

In the end though, his wife has either totally disrespected him, or is so naive as to be really clueless about what she is doing, which disrespects him as well. I truly wish the poor man luck for the future. I'm pretty sure you do as well. Let's both hope that he finds happiness in whatever way will work for him in the future.

(in reply to ceebee)

Post #: 52

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/6/2010 2:46:30 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I never suggested that man do "nothing."
Perhaps you need to read again and get a better understanding of what I said.
you patronising person, and i did, and i did not see what you said that he should do, i saw a whole lot of what his wife should do different though...
and that it was perfectly ok for him not to WANT to do anything

The issues that exist between this OP and the other thread are MILES apart.
Two men with wifes who want kink... both men go along a bit, but things are not to their liking...
i agree that every individual case is always different
but i do find it a bit odd you can not see any similarities at all

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 53

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/6/2010 3:36:42 AM

Ladynslave

Posts: 376
Joined: 7/30/2009
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It sounds like what you are trying to set up is a poly triad with you and your wife as primary partners and her and her Dom as the secondary relationship. (Forgive me if I get the terms wrong as I am new to them myself, so feel free to correct as needed.) The rules are simply what you set up and agree to with her and are willing to live with. Much continuing communication will be needed and rules may need to be revised, added to, etc. as time goes on.

A few simple starters... Their relationship doesn't get to interfere with your relationship with her. He is employed and has his own place to play with her (I assume you don't want to watch but you can if you like.) You get final veto power of potential Doms. (You have as much right to talk to them about relationship expectations as she does.) She doesn't lie about potential Doms she is considering or there are consequences. (I.E. You start a bank account for your income that she doesn't have access to funds. Her profiles are deleted and you set up a couples profile in which you get to write the text as to what the two of you are looking for.) You have total access to all her profiles and emails.

As for her current con... err Dom. Any true Dom/me will release a slave/sub should the slave/sub request such. It sounds more like he has found a potential meal ticket and is willing to excersise the "right" if he doesn't find something better before he is in dire need.

You do need counciling about her lies to get him into your house (given the situation, find one that is kink friendly.) Rebuild the trust before you start looking for a new Dom together. You may also need to take Steven's advice about turning her over your knee at least for a little while until she at the very least agrees to give up her current con... err Dom.

I wish you the best of luck. Normally I am a dump them when they betray your trust kind of poster, but as I can see from your posts how much you want this to work. I hope for your sake that it can and that such was reflected in my post.

(in reply to speeder)

Post #: 54

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/6/2010 7:39:46 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Want my actually semi-serious advice?

Take this whole debacle onto a talk-show. Write a book about it. Make good money from the book and find a lovely woman to be seduced by, have her move in and tell your wife things are going to be "different now" around the house.

Okay. I lied.

I'm entirely serious.

that story has already been written, i read it last year

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(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 55

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/6/2010 9:16:17 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I find it a bit counterproductive to write this on the other side and put it here as well. I'll be more than happy to send you a cmail and refer you back here, OP. I'll reiterate some of what we already discussed so as to keep everyone in the loop.

The situation that this has become is not how many of us manage things in our own personal worlds. When My other half and I made the decision to become poly, which is basically what you've done here, we sat down several times and discussed how we were going to work things out. I feel this is something you have failed to do and now it is biting you in the butt. Clearly, this is not working out. You have gotten lost in the shuffle and it's time to get you back in the deck.

Your wife may have chosen to give power to this person, but you haven't. Control is being attempted to be taken in areas that he has none. Tell this person to feel free to order your wife to sell half of the house. It's not possible so long as your name is on the deed. In other words, he really doesn't have the control to do that. Inform your wife that if this person's supposed control interferes with your marriage, that you are willing to let the marriage go, and be firm about it. (I have a feeling that you are not especially strong in these areas and that is part of the reason that your wife doesn't see strength in you.)

My advice to you would be to scrap this whole mess. Withdraw the consent that you gave originally until such time that you and your wife have worked out between the two of you what the rules for engagement with others entails. In My opinion, this is something that every couple should do before they open their lives up to include anyone else. The reason that you're getting walked on is because you never created any personal boundaries for each of you as individuals or for you jointly as a couple. It's time you did.

Some other advice that I would put out there would be showing your wife this thread. While you have received some heckling in it, I think it would be a good way to show your wife just how unacceptable many folks with experience in this lifestyle see this situation. What you folks have created is so unlike what most of us who have similar arrangements that we've turned into success, it is like night and day. I can't imagine not taking a spouse's feelings into account in all of this. That is not only disrespecting the marriage, but it's hurtful to the spouse that isn't participating in the dynamic. Anybody involved in BDSM needs to take into account the harm they could inflict and that's just plain not happening here.

The only way you are going to rectify this situation is to become better educated on what works and standing up for yourself. Until you do, you are going to get exactly the treatment that you allow.

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Post #: 56

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/6/2010 10:13:28 PM

MasterUchiha

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/1/2009
Status: offline

The fact that she is willing to even contact another male without advising you of what she's doing is a SERIOUS problem; marriage couseling is a must but I'd be preapred for it to end. Just because she is confused and doesn't know how or better yet when her fantasy & her reality aren't compatiable & is willing to choose the fantasy over the reality... doesn't mean you have to play the game with her

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Loving this life & lifestyle

(in reply to DrkJourney)

Post #: 57

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/6/2010 11:35:43 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I never suggested that man do "nothing."
Perhaps you need to read again and get a better understanding of what I said.
you patronising person, and i did, and i did not see what you said that he should do, i saw a whole lot of what his wife should do different though...
and that it was perfectly ok for him not to WANT to do anything

Considering you not only are telling me you did read them, but that you also referred to my suggestions on some things he should do, is it any wonder why I'm saying you don't understand what I said?

quote:

The issues that exist between this OP and the other thread are MILES apart.
Two men with wifes who want kink... both men go along a bit, but things are not to their liking...
i agree that every individual case is always different
but i do find it a bit odd you can not see any similarities at all

Any similarities that exist are not what is important. It is the differences. You and I have very different values as to how marriages work. That is obvious from our various posts. Both men want to make their wives happy, but it isn't, as you want to continue to imply, that they go along for a "bit" until things get to their not liking. While I would never, ever want a poly situation in my life, nor would I accept one, I find it admirable that this man is willing to allow that for his wife's happiness. What you fail to realize is that the only reason this OP is NOT dominating his wife is because SHE doesn't think that he can. SHE put stress on their marriage by bringing this "dominant" into their home under false pretenses. Whether she is naive about D/s or just doesn't care, SHE doesn't seem to have a big problem with the disrespect that this "dominant" shows to her husband or their marriage, or their financial situation. As LadyPact and I both mentioned, some of the things he is saying he *could* do are nothing more than statements because they aren't legally possible. But truly it is the WIFE in this situation who has behaved poorly by bringing this man into their home. It was only the disrespect shown to her sister and niece that caused her to ask him to leave.

While I admire the OPs desire to go to these lengths to make his marriage work, I don't see a happy future for them unless there are some major changes on the parts of BOTH partners.

Honestly, it seems that you believe that both this OP and the other should do whatever is necessary to meet their wives needs. That just isn't realistic. It doesn't make either of them lazy. It doesn't mean they will only go on for a "bit" until it isn't to their "liking." It means that each of the wives in both these situations are not really giving consideration of their husbands' needs, wants or desires. Marriage is a partnership. One doesn't get to have their needs, wants and desires take precedent over the others in this type of situation. But that does seem to be what you think should happen.

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 58

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/7/2010 12:53:21 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

Everybody will live their life as best as they can... people who post will get different opinions and they will take or leave advise as they see fit

in my opinion the wife in this case has strayed completey of the scale of normality... and i think that is what most people think here, you included, and the husband is at a loss with it all at the moment.
... but he seems willing to try and patch things up, straighten things out, undo the mess, well i say: good for him let him take what ever advise he pleases... read some other threads about problems he might beable to relate to and maybe just maybe he will manage to pull his marriage back on track
even though indeed it seems his wife has done her utmost to totally wreck everything they had...

LafayetteLady; This wife aswell as the one in the other thread both seem to think their husband is not good or strong enough to dominate them adequately for their needs... it is not a matter for me to decide wether these wives are right or wrong about that... both their MEN have come to these boards for advise... i have given them my opinion as you have given them yours.. and i think in this case our opinion and mine are quite the same actually.

i am all for couples working through their difficulties... maybe they will make it and maybe in a few years time they have the strongest of marriages, i wish them all the best.

i do not have a problem with you disagreeing with me about anything LafayetteLady ...
but i think it would be nice if you could curb the condescending attitude...
alternatively you could perhaps just ignore me.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 59

RE: need help, advice, opinions, thoughts - 1/7/2010 11:42:45 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

LafayetteLady; This wife aswell as the one in the other thread both seem to think their husband is not good or strong enough to dominate them adequately for their needs...

The difference is that here, the husband has agreed she can seek someone else even though he still doesn't understand why she feels he can't. The other thread, only the responses indicated he should find her a dom to fill his place. That's what makes the advice different. Here, we have someone very willing to do whatever it takes, apparently to his own detriment. There we have a very young man whose wife is dictating the relationship above all else. The poor guy is confused but wants to figure out the middle ground. Honestly, I think the other guy's marriage has a better chance of finding a middle ground without outside intervention. Here, the couple needs outside counseling if they want to make it work. He needs to learn to be more assertive and not simply let his wife run willy nilly finding a dom without regard to him, and she needs to learn that she is in a marriage and that means that she needs to consider more than her needs in her decisions and actions.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 1/7/2010 11:46:53 AM >

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 60

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