RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela

RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/13/2010 2:54:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML He was idolized by a Mr. A Hitler until all saw the dismal performance of the Italian troops in North Africa. Actually the Italians did quite well in North Africa...Kasarine pass was primarily a Italian fought action. It was in Southeastern Africa that the Britts administered a severe spanking to the wops. HST. The wops? Did you mean the West Ohio Paranormal Society? or perhaps the Doo Wops? I thought we were past the time when racial slurs were used on message boards. Perhaps you have a special license to be a pig. That's Piss Ignorant Git in case you haven't kept up. I am terribly sorry to have offended you. It is not uncommon for warriors to diminish one another verbaly whilst trying to kill one another. Are you simillarily offended if I refer to nazis as krauts...because if you are I can only suggest the possibilities for my offending you are growing. Might be time to look into that block button. Most of the serious whiners have already done so. HST. No, I will not block you but I will call you out for clinging to the vocabulary of the past. The use of such terminology is often a crutch upon which bullies lean for fear they may expose lack of mental and verbal skills. It is a woeful commentary upon your own insecurities if you feel using racist terms makes you a warrior. It is quite laughable and pathetic that you should feel the need to enhance your ego in such a fashion, even if it is just a vulgar habit you have fallen to. It reveals the lack of confidence one would expect to find in an adolescent who cannot engage in a discussion or debate with the strength and conviction of his own opinions. The Germans held the Italian military performance in derision and when Rommel withdrew at El Alamein he left them to be slaughtered and captured. That is the counter to which I referred when I mentioned 250,000 captured. The only success the Italians had without German support was a brief one in taking British Somalia, and then they left themselves surrounded and without the means to hold the territory. They did fight vigorously at El Alamein for a bit until they were overwhelmed. So, my smartass throw away line about their achievements in Africa was not totally incorrect, but it distracted from their bravery and the stupidity of their Leader. However, your comment that the Battle of Kasserine Pass was primarily an Italian action is beyond preposterous. The Italian divisions were melded into the German Panther Divisions. It was all Rommel all the time. He lured the Allies into a trap and quite nearly destroyed them with his cunning. It is beyond my understanding how you ever came up with the notion that Kasserine was primarily an Italian fought action. Perhaps that's what comes of needing slanderous names in debate rather than relying upon cogent issues. Btw, I accept your apology for the sake of my parents and their parents who were all beautiful people and not at all deserving of such labels that you used and which were so long used here in the States to imply their inferiority before it became apparent that Italian Americans made invaluable contributions to our culture and society. No, I shall not block you and I will be happy to debate you anytime we have opposite views on an issue. Your need to resort to name calling tactics exposes your weakness to me. It does not a Warrior make.

thompsonx -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/14/2010 8:37:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML No, I will not block you but I will call you out for clinging to the vocabulary of the past. The use of such terminology is often a crutch upon which bullies lean for fear they may expose lack of mental and verbal skills. It is a woeful commentary upon your own insecurities if you feel using racist terms makes you a warrior. It is quite laughable and pathetic that you should feel the need to enhance your ego in such a fashion, even if it is just a vulgar habit you have fallen to. It reveals the lack of confidence one would expect to find in an adolescent who cannot engage in a discussion or debate with the strength and conviction of his own opinions. When I used the term wop I was refering to the low life racist pieces of shit from Italy under the command of Mousilini who with the complicity of the racists biggot Churchill sent their scumbag wop troops to rape pillage and plunder the lands of those whom the wops felt were racially inferior to them. The Germans held the Italian military performance in derision and when Rommel withdrew at El Alamein he left them to be slaughtered and captured. That is the counter to which I referred when I mentioned 250,000 captured. This (the second battle of El Alimein) happened in November of 42 the Kassarine pass battle happened in Feb 43. So the counter attack you are talking about exists only in your mind. The battle of the Kasserine pass was fought in February 1943. The Italian general Messe was appointed as the new commander of the "Italo-German Tank Army" (Deutsch-Italienische Panzerarmee) formerly commanded by Erwin Rommel. The name was changed to 1st Italian Army in recognition of the fact that the army consisted of one German and three Italian corps. Rommel was promoted to the command of the new Army Group Africa (Heeresgruppe Afrika). Clearly Rommel is Messe's boss but the conduct of the battle was the responsibility of General Messe This is the version of the battle that is taught at West Point. The only success the Italians had without German support was a brief one in taking British Somalia, and then they left themselves surrounded and without the means to hold the territory. They did fight vigorously at El Alamein for a bit until they were overwhelmed. So, my smartass throw away line about their achievements in Africa was not totally incorrect, but it distracted from their bravery and the stupidity of their Leader. Get a history book. However, your comment that the Battle of Kasserine Pass was primarily an Italian action is beyond preposterous. The Italian divisions were melded into the German Panther Divisions. It was all Rommel all the time. He lured the Allies into a trap and quite nearly destroyed them with his cunning. It is beyond my understanding how you ever came up with the notion that Kasserine was primarily an Italian fought action. It is called factual history not the wishful thinking you are dealing in. Perhaps that's what comes of needing slanderous names in debate rather than relying upon cogent issues. Btw, I accept your apology for the sake of my parents and their parents who were all beautiful people and not at all deserving of such labels that you used and which were so long used here in the States to imply their inferiority before it became apparent that Italian Americans made invaluable contributions to our culture and society. No, I shall not block you and I will be happy to debate you anytime we have opposite views on an issue. Your need to resort to name calling tactics exposes your weakness to me. It does not a Warrior make.

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/14/2010 10:57:07 AM)
quote: When I used the term wop I was refering to the low life racist pieces of shit from Italy under the command of Mousilini who with the complicity of the racists biggot Churchill sent their scumbag wop troops to rape pillage and plunder the lands of those whom the wops felt were racially inferior to them. You are right and I am wrong on the history. I stand corrected for my careless research of the North Africa War. However, your attempt to redefine the offensive term to make yourself seem a liberal humanitarian doesn't wash and it does not leave you clean of your own scum racist use. The word has a long history in the States far different and far uglier then the new one found in the Thompsonx dictionary. The word is what it is and you are what you are for using it. Your "new" definition will not change the foul odor. You perpetrate and reawaken the historical bigotry with your own. If you were truly so fiercely anti-bigot you would not display your own form of it.

thompsonx -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/14/2010 2:07:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: When I used the term wop I was refering to the low life racist pieces of shit from Italy under the command of Mousilini who with the complicity of the racists biggot Churchill sent their scumbag wop troops to rape pillage and plunder the lands of those whom the wops felt were racially inferior to them. You are right and I am wrong on the history. I stand corrected for my careless research of the North Africa War. However, your attempt to redefine the offensive term to make yourself seem a liberal humanitarian doesn't wash and it does not leave you clean of your own scum racist use. The word has a long history in the States far different and far uglier then the new one found in the Thompsonx dictionary. The word is what it is and you are what you are for using it. Your "new" definition will not change the foul odor. You perpetrate and reawaken the historical bigotry with your own. If you were truly so fiercely anti-bigot you would not display your own form of it. You might want to go back and reread what you actually said about my intelligence and my knowledge of history baised on your position that I am a racist. quote: In addition, the git knows little about the War. It was Rommel who lead the attack in the Kaserine Pass. And it was the Brit and Yank counter that lead to the surrender of 250,000 Italian/German troops. Not a surprise. Racists are ignorant in my book. My original post clearly spoke of the wops who got their asses handed to them as they had to the indiginous peoples in the countries they had invaded. My subsequent reaquainting you with that fact does not indicate a dictionary of thompson but a consistant position that those shit piles were wops in the most perjoritive sense of the word. Since you have acknowledged that I am not ignorant it would follow that you might consider apologizing for the racist accusation. HST

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/14/2010 4:45:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx [ My original post clearly spoke of the wops who got their asses handed to them as they had to the indiginous peoples in the countries they had invaded. My subsequent reaquainting you with that fact does not indicate a dictionary of thompson but a consistant position that those shit piles were wops in the most perjoritive sense of the word. Since you have acknowledged that I am not ignorant it would follow that you might consider apologizing for the racist accusation. HST Not at all true. Not at all consistent. Your original post said nothing about your defining the Italian invasion of East Africa as racist. That definition came along after I called you on your use of the word. In fact you praised them as doing quite well in North Africa. You can't have it both ways in my book. You can't praise the Italian soldier on the one hand and then as an afterthought make him out to be a racist. I will give you this much. Since I do not know you personally it may not be proper for me to call you a racist. That much I regret. But in the history of my family the word was used against us regardless of what we did but because of who we were and where we came from. As far as I am concerned the use of the word is a racist act. Whatever you now claim your intent or definition, the use of it spills over and mucks up all Italian people wherever they may live now. It is just too bad you cannot understand that. You say you meant it derrogatory only for those who fought in East Africa. Unfortunately, the world does not work that way. Derrogatory words do not hold safe some members of a group while smearing a select few. When you say "wop" you are speaking of all Italians regardless of your hidden definition, regardless of your protestations to the contrary. We have heard those words all our lives. We are fucking sick of hearing or reading them. Using it is a racist act pure and simple. Again I say, if you truly have a passion against bigotry you would not display any form of it so casually and without understanding the wider implications of your action. I fear we have captured this thread, you and I, so I will not continue. You may have the last word if you like.

thompsonx -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/14/2010 6:17:00 PM)
quote: You might want to go back and reread what you actually said about my intelligence and my knowledge of history baised on your position that I am a racist. quote: I will give you this much. Since I do not know you personally it may not be proper for me to call you a racist. Now that was not so hard was it? Thank you, apology accepted. btw the fucktards in North Africa were wops too but just better led. A warrior can recognize talent without agreeing with political intent. HST.

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 2:54:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: You might want to go back and reread what you actually said about my intelligence and my knowledge of history baised on your position that I am a racist. quote: I will give you this much. Since I do not know you personally it may not be proper for me to call you a racist. Now that was not so hard was it? Thank you, apology accepted. btw the fucktards in North Africa were wops too but just better led. A warrior can recognize talent without agreeing with political intent. HST. Forget it. Apology withdrawn. I can recognize a racist when I see one.

Moonhead -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 5:09:51 AM)
Isn't wop a purely American term originally? One story I'd heard is that it was short for "without papers": somebody trying to come through Ellis island without identification. I'd imagine there were a lot of people doing that who weren't Italian a hundred years ago...

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 7:33:52 AM)
from Wiki Wop is an American English pejorative ethnic slur for an Italian. It is derived from the Neapolitan word "guappo" (often pronounced simply as "guap'" in the regional dialect), meaning a person who flaunts an overbearingly cocky and swaggering attitude. Contrary to popular belief, it is most likely not an acronym for "With Out Papers" or "Without Passport", one of the most famous examples of folk etymology or backronym. The reason for this is that the term was already in popular use as early as 1910, a period in which no immigrant needed papers to enter the United States (passports and visas were not required of immigrants entering the country until 1921). Amazing isn't it, and we complain about our unguarded borders today.....vincentML This insult was recently used by Welsh Assembly Member Alun Cairns on a live broadcast from Radio Cymru on Friday 13th, June 2008, when he referred to the Italian Euro 2008 football team as "Greasy Wops". As a consequence, he resigned from office.

Moonhead -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 7:53:19 AM)
Thanks, Vincent. I didn't know that. That does sound a lot more likely.

thompsonx -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 8:50:32 AM)
quote: Wop is an American English pejorative ethnic slur for an Italian. It is derived from the Neapolitan word "guappo" (often pronounced simply as "guap'" in the regional dialect), meaning a person who flaunts an overbearingly cocky and swaggering attitude. In Spanish "guappo" means uncommonly acttractive. The low life scumbag shitpiles in the north of Africa were there for the same reason as those in the south east of Africa. They were there because they felt that the "white,cultured,civilized Italians were deemed by god and benito to be racially superior to those "black savages". You obviously share some afinity with those hatefilled shitpiles but I do not. I find it rather ironic that you seek to castigate me for being a racists when I am heaping abuse on racists who happen to be your ancestors...one would think you would be trying to distance yourself from those shitpiles rather than trying to defend them...strange world we live in. HST

Moonhead -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 9:42:58 AM)
No relatives from down south in the family then? There was a lot of racial superiority going on a couple of hundred years back there, after all, and it went on for a lot longer than the decade Mussolini spent in power. Still, it's good to know that a country going along blindly with a scumbag of a leader automatically becomes a nest of shitpiles. That means that you're either a shitpile now yourself, or have just spent eight years as one, doesn't it?

thompsonx -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 10:44:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead No relatives from down south in the family then? There was a lot of racial superiority going on a couple of hundred years back there, after all, and it went on for a lot longer than the decade Mussolini spent in power. Still, it's good to know that a country going along blindly with a scumbag of a leader automatically becomes a nest of shitpiles. That means that you're either a shitpile now yourself, or have just spent eight years as one, doesn't it? I think I have been pretty clear as to exactly who I thought was a pile of shit(for those who missed it it would be those actually engaged in acting like a shitpile...those at home have no clue as to what is going on). The short answer to your question though is ..Yes... HST

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/15/2010 11:19:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Wop is an American English pejorative ethnic slur for an Italian. It is derived from the Neapolitan word "guappo" (often pronounced simply as "guap'" in the regional dialect), meaning a person who flaunts an overbearingly cocky and swaggering attitude. In Spanish "guappo" means uncommonly acttractive. The low life scumbag shitpiles in the north of Africa were there for the same reason as those in the south east of Africa. They were there because they felt that the "white,cultured,civilized Italians were deemed by god and benito to be racially superior to those "black savages". You obviously share some afinity with those hatefilled shitpiles but I do not. I find it rather ironic that you seek to castigate me for being a racists when I am heaping abuse on racists who happen to be your ancestors...one would think you would be trying to distance yourself from those shitpiles rather than trying to defend them...strange world we live in. HST You miss the point on two counts, Thompson, and they are right there before your eyes. At no time did I defend Mussolini and his invasion of any place. I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. Colonialism was a racist system engaged in by all the major Western Powers since Portugal first sent ships around the cape of Africa to the East Indies. And Japan as well after their war with Russia. The more important point is that Italian Americans will never be able to separate ourselves from the buffoonery of Mussolini and his "shitpile" commanders as long as people like you perpetuate the negative stereotype by use of pejorative words. It is the same with the so-called comedians who think it is funny to affect a broken-english Italian accent. Everytime you use the term, however much you protest your benign intentions, and everytime the motherfucker comedian mimics a broken english accent you run the risk of reinforcing the stereotype for some dimwitted kid who doesn't understand you are using a different definition of the word. Your definition of the word is not the prevailing definition that has come down to us through history. You cannot change the history or the definition, but you can help change the racist stereotype by eliminating the words that have always made us second class citizens. An intelligent man should not need to stoop to such devices to make his points in debate. Frankly, it is self-defeating because it makes you appear ugly which I doubt you desire. I don't know how else to get this across to you. Your use of those terms keeps the rest of the Italian people chained to Mussolini's obscenities, but worst you keep us chained to a past time in the USA when we were considered shitpiles just for being Italian.

thompsonx -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/16/2010 1:21:33 PM)
So your position is that you would prefer that I use the term "low life scumbag shitpile" as opposed to "wop" to describe those Italians who would deny national self determination to their African brothers? HST

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/16/2010 7:20:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx So your position is that you would prefer that I use the term "low life scumbag shitpile" as opposed to "wop" to describe those Italians who would deny national self determination to their African brothers? HST I would have no trouble with it if you specified who you were talking about and the basis for your judgment. I would be comfortable using that term to anyone who would deny national self determination to Africans and Latinos and Asians or anyone else. We are a world of tribes. None inherently superior to the others in my book. Personally, I am especially troubled by the way we have treated the indigenous people of Latin and Central America. I do not feel the need to use the sort of dramatic language you use, however, to make my points. But we each have our own style. The Mussolini Italians were racist and wrong. Colonialism was racist and wrong. However, keep in mind there was much dissent within Italy especially among the Socialist partisans. I have made my case quite clearly about the use of the pejorative words that dehumanize my parents and etc. I hope you see my pov and I thank you if you do.

luckydawg -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/16/2010 8:29:09 PM)
Of course given Thompsonx's admitted history, we should refer to him as a low life scumbag shitpile, from now on.

vincentML -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/16/2010 9:15:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Of course given Thompsonx's admitted history, we should refer to him as a low life scumbag shitpile, from now on. You got me on that, dawg, cause I don't know his history. lol

Moonhead -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/17/2010 10:58:51 AM)
Well, if it's cool to call all Germans nazis because of Hitler I suppose it must be cool to call all Italians fascists because of Mussolini. Frightening how some people think, isn't it?

Sanity -> RE: Hugo Chavez & Venezuela (1/17/2010 11:12:37 AM)
Yeah, ThompsonX is a real piece of work. quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Well, if it's cool to call all Germans nazis because of Hitler I suppose it must be cool to call all Italians fascists because of Mussolini. Frightening how some people think, isn't it?

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.03125