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RE: curious situation - 3/22/2006 10:17:36 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I don't recall saying that.  Anyway, it's not a contradiction.  If a slave is shaking her fists and has pent-up rage (and I'm assuming she's not just a mad woman), then she has something she needs to say immediately.  That doesn't mean a master ALWAYS has to permit her to speak.  I believe a slave always has to be given the opportunity to say what she needs to say, but that does not mean she has to be allowed to say it whenever she wishes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Calmly tell her to put her hands down, take off her clothes, get on her knees, and say everything she needs to say.  Then listen to what she says and respond accordingly.



Isn't this where others have responded to the fact they do not have to listen if they are not in the mood to do so?

Everyones quick to jump on the band wagon of communication... but yet on the thread of cummincation.. most spoke of not having to... strange.. strange indeed.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: curious situation - 3/22/2006 10:51:49 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Well i get alot of anger issues.  Though i dont think i've ever clenched my fists up at him.  i know recently (past week) i've sent things flying.  Not at him.  i dont "attack".  i've thrown temper tantrums, screamed, gotten hysterically upset and cried while i hollared.  Usually what Master does is A) tell me to lower my voice.  He tells me there's no need to be shouting.  B) if i start cussing, he tells me i better wrap that up quick.  Generally if its a discussion that goes haywire for me he like reminds me of the appropriate way to deal with it.  Talk.  If it goes past haywire and i start melting down he walks away and waits a little bit, lets me finish melting down and then comes back and asks me if i'm calm enough yet to talk.  i tend to get destructive melting down so he usually is close enough to make sure i dont do anything stupid but far enough away to defuse the situation.  He used to out right ignore me.  Tried and true, leaving me to my own devices while i melt down leads me to some destructive thing.  He teaches me (sometimes repeatedly) whats okay and whats not okay.  Sitting quietely and crying is okay.

If its anger not directed at him but at something else.  He usually steps in, asks whats wrong, tells me to calm down repeatedly, hugs me a whole bunch, lets me cry on him and then tries and cheers me up. 

Granted i am starting to realise that my response to such feelings isnt normal.  But you asked everyone so i thought i'd chime in.  

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/22/2006 10:52:58 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: curious situation - 3/22/2006 11:15:32 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

Well I've never clenched my fist at Master and I cant imagine myself ever doing it, but there was one time I was so totally frustrated that I picked up a pillow and hit him with it about 6 times, he just looked at me and then we talked.


*Laughs

Well, in that scenario I might be willing to talk...after I poured the contents of the pillow on her head.


Pillow Fight!!!

i laughed at both of your posts.

i would never dream of shaking a fist at him.  i have clenched my fists at my sides while mustering everything i could, in a quivering voice, to stay calm and speak my mind.  But Lordy-be if i shook a fist at him.  i would never want to nor get away with disrespecting him like that.

(in reply to amayos)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: curious situation - 3/22/2006 11:30:38 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cravinspankin

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

IronBear,
I like your new photo. Very nice.


I noticed that, myself...
Very nice, indeed, if i may say so.



Thank you both of you. Much appreciated..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to cravinspankin)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 12:21:55 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Calmly tell her to put her hands down, take off her clothes, get on her knees, and say everything she needs to say.  Then listen to what she says and respond accordingly.



Isn't this where others have responded to the fact they do not have to listen if they are not in the mood to do so?

Everyones quick to jump on the band wagon of communication... but yet on the thread of cummincation.. most spoke of not having to... strange.. strange indeed.


Could be a difference in "not having to" and wanting to?  .................at least for some *wiggles both eyebrows*........it's 2:30 in the morn, got to get back to bed.......
 
Level

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 2:39:29 AM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		well either you lot are saints, or im a sinner. Coz i get angry. And i express that. I have shaken my fists and a lot worse.
A shaken fist IS communication. Usually loosely interpreted as "you are not listening to me, im getting so frustrated".
But perhaps im a freak, and the only one on collarme that does express anger, hey ho. Rather that than some fluidly submissive drone. I have a array of emotions, ALL are normal human emotions. I would not wish to be in a relationship that banned them. gee!
I do however, have to express them appropriately, which is why, when i leak my fury, i am sent to a cupboard, and whilst im there, i am supposed to consider the error of my ways. Usually, i sit in the dark, getting angrier. Fuelling my original inflammatory thoughts. But im 42, and get angry for god damn good reasons these days. Long gone have been my flighty fiery days. Anger at my 42 usually equates to he's been a asshole and im frustrated. Get real guys.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 4:13:58 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1

well either you lot are saints, or im a sinner. Coz i get angry. And i express that. I have shaken my fists and a lot worse.
A shaken fist IS communication. Usually loosely interpreted as "you are not listening to me, im getting so frustrated".
But perhaps im a freak, and the only one on collarme that does express anger, hey ho. Rather that than some fluidly submissive drone. I have a array of emotions, ALL are normal human emotions. I would not wish to be in a relationship that banned them. gee!
I do however, have to express them appropriately, which is why, when i leak my fury, i am sent to a cupboard, and whilst im there, i am supposed to consider the error of my ways. Usually, i sit in the dark, getting angrier. Fuelling my original inflammatory thoughts. But im 42, and get angry for god damn good reasons these days. Long gone have been my flighty fiery days. Anger at my 42 usually equates to he's been a asshole and im frustrated. Get real guys.


How does the anger get resolved?  I mean, does he admit to "being an asshole", or do you just have to get over it, or what?
 
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(in reply to Sirandlittle1)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 4:15:39 AM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

 i get angry. And i express that. I have shaken my fists and a lot worse.
But perhaps im a freak, and the only one on collarme that does express anger, hey ho. Rather that than some fluidly submissive drone.


So a  submissive who feels anger but does'nt express it by shakeing their fists at their Doms  or worst are fluidly submissive drones? did i read that right?
just want to make sure before I respond futher

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to Sirandlittle1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 4:32:42 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

I stayed calm, chuckled abit and waited to see what she would do next. Usually this is with a smirk on my face because an angry woman can be the cutest thing. At least the ones I've had were. The smart ones would calm down and talk to me about what they're feeling and why.

Not all women are *cute* when angry and smirking/grinning/chuckling at their frustration and anger has sent some off into a violent throw down. Now I know most men don't see a woman as a threat because society has the outlandish idea that women in general are weaker. DON'T believe it an enraged person of either sex is dangerous.
If she's shaking her fist something is WRONG and a wise/responsible Dom/me will do their best to find out what it is in a calm manner.
These are subs NOT children and to the person who suggested tying her up while she's upset like this. What are you gonna do if she knees you in the balls and proceeds to kick your butt? Laugh if you will, I've seen it done by a woman who was 5'5" and 135 lbs, needless to say her 5' 10" boyfriend was quite caught off guard.

~Lashra

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 5:08:09 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Would you really do this to a child? I think it would be highly inappropriate to do so.

quote:

If she acts like a child she gets treated like a child. Clothes ripped/cut off, dragged by the hair to my chair and bent naked over my knee and disciplined hard.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 5:08:42 AM   
jennalynn


Posts: 67
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline 		  " Clenching her fists, shaking her fists, and even stamping her feet are what I’d expect from a child.   If she acts like a child she gets treated like a child. Clothes ripped/cut off, dragged by the hair to my chair and bent naked over my knee and disciplined hard.  Then the corner for a minimum of 30 minutes after which she will kneel (shouldn’t be able to sit happily yet) nadu before me and we talk… open discussion. Irrespective of the reason her punishment is for behavior not the reason."  (As quoted from Master Iron Bear).

Yes, i would have expected something close to that from my Master too.

jenna

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 7:15:41 AM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		In Russia when you usually shake your fist at someone it usually means "dont be a smart ass" or some sign of frustration. Either way every one has different ways of dealing with that.

< Message edited by Moloch -- 3/23/2006 7:17:12 AM >

(in reply to jennalynn)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 7:45:58 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
Not all women are *cute* when angry and smirking/grinning/chuckling at their frustration and anger has sent some off into a violent throw down.
A disarming smile is meant be just that, disarming. Besides, if she is truely irate, then nothing said or done will help. But until she actually comes at me, one must simply grin and bear it sometimes.
quote:

Now I know most men don't see a woman as a threat because society has the outlandish idea that women in general are weaker.
Lets not go into the whole women = weaker, men = stronger arguement. Thats just a whole different thread to be had.
quote:

DON'T believe it an enraged person of either sex is dangerous.
If she's shaking her fist something is WRONG and a wise/responsible Dom/me will do their best to find out what it is in a calm manner.
Yes, an enraged person is dangerous. But the one who can keep his head during this time and fight with training and knowledge is more dangerous.
quote:

These are subs NOT children and to the person who suggested tying her up while she's upset like this. What are you gonna do if she knees you in the balls and proceeds to kick your butt?
Been there, had that. If you really think that all men are susceptible to being kick in the balls you really need to grow up. For some, it just further gives the reason for your own ass to be kicked.
quote:

Laugh if you will, I've seen it done by a woman who was 5'5" and 135 lbs, needless to say her 5' 10" boyfriend was quite caught off guard.
Alright, I will. Each and everytime.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 8:11:32 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1

well either you lot are saints, or im a sinner. Coz i get angry. And i express that. I have shaken my fists and a lot worse.
A shaken fist IS communication. Usually loosely interpreted as "you are not listening to me, im getting so frustrated".
But perhaps im a freak, and the only one on collarme that does express anger, hey ho. Rather that than some fluidly submissive drone. I have a array of emotions, ALL are normal human emotions. I would not wish to be in a relationship that banned them. gee!
I do however, have to express them appropriately, which is why, when i leak my fury, i am sent to a cupboard, and whilst im there, i am supposed to consider the error of my ways. Usually, i sit in the dark, getting angrier. Fuelling my original inflammatory thoughts. But im 42, and get angry for god damn good reasons these days. Long gone have been my flighty fiery days. Anger at my 42 usually equates to he's been a asshole and im frustrated. Get real guys.


i was perfectly okay with your decision to throw tantrums when angry and to not say anything until you told "me" (us) to "get real."

1.  i would never call my Master an asshole, or say he has been an asshole.  i respect him far too much for that, and i trust him far too much, to know that either i did not agree with his decision or that perhaps he actually miscalculate.

2. Of course i am allowed to be angry.  And i am allowed to express that anger.  But i am expected to do so as a grown up.  Meaning, i tell him of it.  Even if my voice is all crackly and escalated as i try to surpress the urge to scream, i DO surpress it, because that is the boundary provided for me.  It is in my best interest to do so, as it is unhealthy for me to be so out of control that i need to shake fists and be sent to a corner.

3.  Didn't you just admit in your post that shaking your fist is inappropriate?  "I do however, have to express them appropriately, which is why, when i leak my fury, i am sent to a cupboard..." Okay, so....huh?  You have ranted that it's okay to behave in such a way, and then you admit that you shouldn't behave in such a way.

4. my relationship in no way bans emotions, but there are expectations of how i am to behave, and i meet them. That is not being a saint.  That is being a slave.

For the record, if i ever DID get so angry as to be out of control, Master would walk away and not deal with me until i decided to calm down and approach him appropriately.  Then he would listen to my concerns, decide, and punish me for behaving so poorly.

~ 2 cents in the bucket, as i haven't contributed to it in awhile ~

(in reply to Sirandlittle1)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 8:12:57 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirandlittle1

well either you lot are saints, or im a sinner. Coz i get angry. And i express that. I have shaken my fists and a lot worse.
A shaken fist IS communication. Usually loosely interpreted as "you are not listening to me, im getting so frustrated".
But perhaps im a freak, and the only one on collarme that does express anger, hey ho. Rather that than some fluidly submissive drone. I have a array of emotions, ALL are normal human emotions. I would not wish to be in a relationship that banned them. gee!
I do however, have to express them appropriately, which is why, when i leak my fury, i am sent to a cupboard, and whilst im there, i am supposed to consider the error of my ways. Usually, i sit in the dark, getting angrier. Fuelling my original inflammatory thoughts. But im 42, and get angry for god damn good reasons these days. Long gone have been my flighty fiery days. Anger at my 42 usually equates to he's been a asshole and im frustrated. Get real guys.


i was perfectly okay with your decision to throw tantrums when angry and to not say anything until you told "me" (us) to "get real."

1.  i would never call my Master an asshole, or say he has been an asshole.  i respect him far too much for that, and i trust him far too much, to know that either i did not agree with his decision or that perhaps he actually miscalculated.

2. Of course i am allowed to be angry.  And i am allowed to express that anger.  But i am expected to do so as a grown up.  Meaning, i tell him of it.  Even if my voice is all crackly and escalated as i try to surpress the urge to scream, i DO surpress it, because that is the boundary provided for me.  It is in my best interest to do so, as it is unhealthy for me to be so out of control that i need to shake fists and be sent to a corner.

3.  Didn't you just admit in your post that shaking your fist is inappropriate?  "I do however, have to express them appropriately, which is why, when i leak my fury, i am sent to a cupboard..." Okay, so....huh?  You have ranted that it's okay to behave in such a way, and then you admit that you shouldn't behave in such a way.

4. my relationship in no way bans emotions, but there are expectations of how i am to behave, and i meet them. That is not being a saint.  That is being a slave.

For the record, if i ever DID get so angry as to be out of control, Master would walk away and not deal with me until i decided to calm down and approach him appropriately.  Then he would listen to my concerns, decide, and punish me for behaving so poorly.

~ 2 cents in the bucket, as i haven't contributed to it in awhile ~


< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 3/23/2006 8:13:49 AM >

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 9:41:20 AM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		I walk away, sit somewhere private and calm down. It is really easy to get me angry back, when someone close to me comes at me angry. It is never a good idea to deal with the situation if you, yourself are angry. If I can't walk away, I will try to keep enough calm as I can and ask said submissive to please give me some time alone, and suggest she/he do the same. If it gets physical, I defend myself and try to run. Violence should be saved for S&M. I'm not the type to want to be in a fight in the first place, or hurt someone because of it. When both parties are calm enough to talk, then we talk. There is no way to get through to someone who is enraged until the storm calms. Then there is usually emotional release on both sides, so I offer my shoulder to cry on, and at times cry myself. I'm not in a D/s relationship. Thus this is my method across the board, how I deal with my friends and roomates. As such, there is no room or place for punishment in this scenerio. 

My friend up north who is a slave, is lucky enough to have a Master who does not get angered easily. He is very laid back and simply takes her anger, waits till she is calmed down, reminds her of her place, and adds to her number of punishment lashings. She has only gotten angry at him once, though has a problem questioning how often he can be with her (the real reason behind most of her punishments has nothing to do with her anger, but her desperation). I've been lucky enough to see this M/s relationship blossom from the beginning, and everything does seem to be settling down.  

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 10:03:49 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Rule Number 1

Never punish when angry... Often punishment , like revenge,is a dish best served cold (especially if the person to bepunished hasto wait and contemplate their sins)..


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Slipstreme)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 10:58:45 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		Sounds like some protocols are needed to create a safe space in which both people can be heard, honored, and the dynamic is strenthend and not weakend by the natural human emotion of anger.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 11:18:31 AM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline 		For me it would depend on the circumstances... was it just a clenching of fists at her side or did she put them up like she was going to slug you?

i often clentch my fists when i'm frustrated or angry. My nails digging into my palms focus my anger away from my head and words. It's a way for me to control myself and center myself again.  i've never raised them to strike at anyone.

i may be submissive, but i am human first and i do have a temper.

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 11:46:46 AM   
Sub03


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/30/2005
Status: offline 		Love your new photo IronBear. :)

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 40
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