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RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 11:51:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

A submissive clenches her fist towards you, because she is mad.....How do you respond? 


Pragmatic solutions are alwasy best. If it bothered me, I'd use my leather mitten cuffs then I wouldn't have to see them.

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 12:59:54 PM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
Not all women are *cute* when angry and smirking/grinning/chuckling at their frustration and anger has sent some off into a violent throw down.

quote:

Laugh if you will, I've seen it done by a woman who was 5'5" and 135 lbs, needless to say her 5' 10" boyfriend was quite caught off guard.
Alright, I will. Each and everytime.


*laughs* I don't know Lashra.. I think women are "cute" when they're angry too... actually I find most people hilarious when they're out and out angry. I also find that laughing at them tends to make them see exactly what they're doing and make them start laughing too.

My best friend (5'4) has a huge temper. She'll go off about the smallest things some days.. She makes this face and fist kind of stance/pose/expression.. and it is cute.. funny.. hilarious to see. I've always used laughter to diffuse her. Hell I've even made her go look in the mirror to see exactly how silly she looked and she started laughing at herself.


(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 1:21:15 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i have to agree with SimpleyV and the rest.  It CAN be cute and funny.  Master has mentioned a few times how cute i am when i'm angry.  Though he only laughs when i wrestle with him and get this notion that i'm bigger and stronger and restrain him.  Because i suppose it IS funny when some one my size thinks they're gonna whup some one his size (5'1 max, 108 lbs - 6'3, 230 lbs) 

(in reply to SimplyV)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 1:45:00 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i have to agree with SimpleyV and the rest.  It CAN be cute and funny.  Master has mentioned a few times how cute i am when i'm angry.  Though he only laughs when i wrestle with him and get this notion that i'm bigger and stronger and restrain him.  Because i suppose it IS funny when some one my size thinks they're gonna whup some one his size (5'1 max, 108 lbs - 6'3, 230 lbs) 



I do not know of the being cute when angry, because I know I do not have a stance. If I've gotten pist to the point of clenching my fist.. i'm probably already swinging. I can get pist about alot and not show it.. but if it's reached the point of clenched fist.. there's nothing cute about it to me.


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 1:46:00 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Seriously?  My first reaction would have been to laugh at her---


Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 1:57:11 PM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fastlane

A submissive clenches her fist towards you, because she is mad.....for whatever reason?
How do you respond?  Become physical, become a mediator, whip her back into submission, dump her, talk it out, or decide to go back to sheep, who have big beautiful eyes, are soft and never argue...according to my friend?

Ewe and Peace, Kevin

i am submissive. i am passionate and fiery. my Master loves these things about me, but not when i am using them to shut Him out and be aggressive. i ask for time out and away from Him if necessary to calm myself and be civil - i don't want to do or say anything i'll regret or earn punishment for. He allows me to be quiet and calm myself, which i dearly appreciate. Then W/we talk about it.

i am learning how vulnerable W/we both are and that although, yes, W/we will disagree at times, i need to remember how vulnerable trust is.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 5:16:06 PM   
scratchingpost


Posts: 231
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		well...talk to her first. Diffuse the situation, listen acknowledge her feelings, then see where the problem lies.  no matter how submissive someone is they are still human and have human emotions.

_____________________________

be safe and smile
purrrs kitty
(=^.^=)
www.misskittys-scratchingpost.com

(in reply to fastlane)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 5:44:19 PM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		to me being told i'm cute when i'm angry means someone isn't taking me seriously.

i've watched grown men as well as women express their emotions in what could be called a "childish" manner, and never thought of any of them as cute.  Better to acknowledge the emotions as being real, and being willing to talk to them about it.  Being laughed at doesn't seem like a way to make a pissed off person any less pissed off.

(in reply to scratchingpost)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 5:56:02 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Would you really do this to a child? I think it would be highly inappropriate to do so.

quote:

If she acts like a child she gets treated like a child. Clothes ripped/cut off, dragged by the hair to my chair and bent naked over my knee and disciplined hard.



Are you really so pedantic and take everything so literally, or are you trying to use the immage of me strippig and beating a child to discredit my post because I would not pander to her?????

I'll repeat my comments so yoiu can understand:

  1. I do not deal with subs, only slaves and gorean slaves (kajirae) nothing else will do!
  2. Ergo the person clenching her fists at ME is a slave ---- My slave!
  3. Irrespective of reason ( which may have been completely justified), she will be punished for the breach of Gorean Law and House Rules!
  4. Then we will discuss the original problem....
To other sub/slaves who may be offended by my comment "I do not deal with subs, only slaves and gorean slaves (kajirae) nothing else will do!". I'm Gorean and I'll never sette for less than a Gorean slave. It is what I want and expect... (Yep I'll always be open for training a girl though but in the end she will become kajira) No offense intended to anyone.. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 6:01:21 PM   
Tapestry


Posts: 226
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

Sounds like some protocols are needed to create a safe space in which both people can be heard, honored, and the dynamic is strenthend and not weakend by the natural human emotion of anger.


Sounds like a good idea.  i do become upset, hurt, and angry with Master.  i'm human after all, and oddly enough so is He!
So something in place ahead of time to help get through the situation would be very helpful.

W/we don't have anything specific in place, but i've adopted the habit of keeping my mouth shut while i sort through what i'm feeling and thinking and dealing with, and only speak about it when i can be calm, somewhat rational, and don't run the risk of saying something hurtful and nasty while in the fog of pain and fear and frustration.
i won't say that Master is completely happy with my introspective periods, but will say that He has honored my need to work through things before talking it out.
and for some reason, i rarely cry in front of Him (or anyone else).  i cry in the shower, or while driving alone in the car, or even upon my bed (as long as i'm alone there.)  i don't get loud and fist-shaking angry, i become very quiet, unable to talk much, needing to shut the world out and get through the pain.  i don't just get angry, there is always an element of hurt and pain attached.  The things that could cause straight anger, (like say not allowing me to do something i wanted to do or have something i wanted to have, or leaving the toilet seat up for the zillionth time or some such thing,) are not the kind of things i get angry about.  i become angry when i feel threatened, afraid, hurt, betrayal, pain, in other words, relationship issues.  When not feeling i hold a safe, protected, secure, and cherished place in Master's heart and life i come apart inside myself.  And sadly, pieces of me die, and pieces of love die too.  i think they are restored as the situation is resolved, and hopefully the 2 of U/us learn and grow from these situations.
So that's my best solution right now, shut-up till i can be calm.  It's the protocol that works best for me at this time.

_____________________________

Tapestry

Daddy's Little Girl

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away."

www.tapestry41.blogspot.com

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 6:10:41 PM   
Tapestry


Posts: 226
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline 		Iron Bear - first i want to say that i too like the new pix!

Second, i'm certainly not trying to be pedantic here, just share something that works for me.  I choose not to use the word punishment, as it can imply that i'm doing something TO the other person.  my belief is that one's own actions bring about natural consequences, and so when being stood in the corner or whatever, one has merely brought the "consequences" upon oneself.

And lest anyone be confused, i am NOT referring to my Master but rather to my own unmentionable, and my employees.  I don't ever wish or choose to punish anyone.  i simply explain the limits and boundaries ahead of time, and what the positive and negative consequences are for obeying or disobeying the limits.
That way, the unmentionable or employee have total control of what will or will not happen to them.  And it's not of my doing, but their own.  i find this a helpful way to modify behavior.

Please don't be offended or think i'm picking at you.  That's not my intention at all, just thought i'd share with one and all my perspective and what has worked for me.

As far as my relationship with Master, pleasing Him is what i live for, and i cannot imagine ever bringing a negative consequence upon myself.  i'd die a thousand deaths before disobeying!

_____________________________

Tapestry

Daddy's Little Girl

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away."

www.tapestry41.blogspot.com

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 6:10:41 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		When I was still with my last ex (The mother of my son and a complete sleen bitch) I had a principle for my son and my step son. There was a mat in a cleared area of the room where i would send the boys (not together) which was their Temper tantrum mat and on which they cloud with impunity throw the most gawd almighty hissyfit and unless they were endangering themselves, no one would interfere.

Now, slave wise. I am in favour of her heading off to such a place or begging to be chained in a safe place so she could vent and get the emotion out of her system. provided the ciorrect form and format or if you like the correct protoclois are followed she is not punished.. Mind you, if I see her heading towards an explosion, I may chain her myself so she can calm down unless I deem it is time to talk about what has upset her immediatly.




_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Tapestry)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 6:33:11 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petwolf22

to me being told i'm cute when i'm angry means someone isn't taking me seriously.

i've watched grown men as well as women express their emotions in what could be called a "childish" manner, and never thought of any of them as cute.  Better to acknowledge the emotions as being real, and being willing to talk to them about it.  Being laughed at doesn't seem like a way to make a pissed off person any less pissed off.

You know, funny thing, I don't see responding to childish behavior as the better way to treat the situtation. That only reinforces conduct that is unbecoming of an adult. I'll acknowledge the emotions when the other person learns to properly expresses them.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to petwolf22)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 6:42:26 PM   
petwolf22


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/5/2005
Status: offline 		so if it were a man in that situation (minus the m/s dynamic, perhaps a friend or coworker of yours) you might laugh at him as well?

< Message edited by petwolf22 -- 3/23/2006 6:43:56 PM >

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 7:11:33 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		Oh yes, I have laughed at my friends when they have acted as a child and told them so as well.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to petwolf22)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 7:12:42 PM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petwolf22

to me being told i'm cute when i'm angry means someone isn't taking me seriously.

i've watched grown men as well as women express their emotions in what could be called a "childish" manner, and never thought of any of them as cute. Better to acknowledge the emotions as being real, and being willing to talk to them about it. Being laughed at doesn't seem like a way to make a pissed off person any less pissed off.


You'd be amazed at how well laughter diffuses situations.

And as far as taking someone seriously when they're angry.. Stomping your feet, shaking fits, or making angry faces.. is not a good way to get me to take you seriously. When you can be calm and explain yourself and tell me exactly what the problem is.. When we can actually have a discussion... Then you will find I'm all ears.

Until you're at that point, I will do what I deem necessary to get you to that point.. and from my experiences.. laughter is one of the best and most reliable ways to do that. Besides its fun for me as well.

(in reply to petwolf22)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 7:33:38 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Are you really so pedantic and take everything so literally, or are you trying to use the immage of me strippig and beating a child to discredit my post because I would not pander to her?????

I'll repeat my comments so yoiu can understand:
  1. I do not deal with subs, only slaves and gorean slaves (kajirae) nothing else will do!
  2. Ergo the person clenching her fists at ME is a slave ---- My slave!
  3. Irrespective of reason ( which may have been completely justified), she will be punished for the breach of Gorean Law and House Rules!
  4. Then we will discuss the original problem....
To other sub/slaves who may be offended by my comment "I do not deal with subs, only slaves and gorean slaves (kajirae) nothing else will do!". I'm Gorean and I'll never sette for less than a Gorean slave. It is what I want and expect... (Yep I'll always be open for training a girl though but in the end she will become kajira) No offense intended to anyone.. 


Snaps fingers... mumbles... awwww shucks! Although not offeded by your post.. I had a great vision... <smiles>


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 7:35:22 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tapestry

Iron Bear - first i want to say that i too like the new pix!

Second, i'm certainly not trying to be pedantic here, just share something that works for me.  I choose not to use the word punishment, as it can imply that i'm doing something TO the other person.  my belief is that one's own actions bring about natural consequences, and so when being stood in the corner or whatever, one has merely brought the "consequences" upon oneself.

And lest anyone be confused, i am NOT referring to my Master but rather to my own unmentionable, and my employees.  I don't ever wish or choose to punish anyone.  i simply explain the limits and boundaries ahead of time, and what the positive and negative consequences are for obeying or disobeying the limits.
That way, the unmentionable or employee have total control of what will or will not happen to them.  And it's not of my doing, but their own.  i find this a helpful way to modify behavior.

Please don't be offended or think i'm picking at you.  That's not my intention at all, just thought i'd share with one and all my perspective and what has worked for me.

As far as my relationship with Master, pleasing Him is what i live for, and i cannot imagine ever bringing a negative consequence upon myself.  i'd die a thousand deaths before disobeying!


Hi  Tapestry,   Thank you lass, My regards to your Master too.   Punishment has so many nuances doesn’t it? In truth, the misdemeanor we are all discussing doesn’t call for punishment in my Home any way but it does require disciplinary action which includes some form of corporal discipline. Punishment in my home is the offender being lashed to a pole and given ten lashes with a Gorean Slave Whip. The slave would have known that and have experienced it at her collaring..  Personally I find the knowledge of her being displeasing is one of the more severe punishments and of course there is the dreaded corner. Other than that I prefer discipline to be both corrective and fitting to the offence. In all cases I have to take into account the possibility of my being at fault with insufficient training or information and in that case I need to correct this situation… I never will punish for the sake of it and never when I am angry or in excessive pain… I want and need a clear head to act in a just and correct manner. I’ve been called a hard nosed ruthless cold SoB more times than I can count. And I’ll accept those comments as complements. I have never been accused of being thoughtless, uncaring, abusive (abrasive ? Hell yeah),  or reckless.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Tapestry)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 7:37:22 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: petwolf22

to me being told i'm cute when i'm angry means someone isn't taking me seriously.

i've watched grown men as well as women express their emotions in what could be called a "childish" manner, and never thought of any of them as cute.  Better to acknowledge the emotions as being real, and being willing to talk to them about it.  Being laughed at doesn't seem like a way to make a pissed off person any less pissed off.

You know, funny thing, I don't see responding to childish behavior as the better way to treat the situtation. That only reinforces conduct that is unbecoming of an adult. I'll acknowledge the emotions when the other person learns to properly expresses them.


MrDisclipine,
No fair.. Calling a Foul here... lol

Not knowing you personally... how would I.. if pist enough at you to clench my fist.. know.. how to properly express my anger to you... specially is still in the stages of lerning things about each other? And yes, before you ask.... I have met one.. in real.. that during the process of still getting to know each other.. he got me that mad.. LOL


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: curious situation - 3/23/2006 8:04:26 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress
Sounds like some protocols are needed to create a safe space in which both people can be heard, honored, and the dynamic is strenthend and not weakend by the natural human emotion of anger.


In our house we do have a protocol for expressing anger and it applies to all of us, my Lord included.  For alandra and me we ask "my Lord may I vent my Lord?"  If he is in the frame of mind to listen to a vent then he will say yes.  If not, he will say not now, but he will allow it at another time.  There are times that I use email entitled "my vent" to do this; this way I can say my peace when the mood is right for me and he can read it when the mood is right for him.  Works out really well for us.  When he wishes to vent he will tell us that is what he is going to do and do it.

The rules are that the person venting can say whatever they wish to say without interruption.  The person listening is not to take anything personal or use it against the one venting.  Once the person venting is done, the underlying issue may then be discussed, but the specifics of the vent are off limits. 

What makes this a useful tool for us is that it is not abused and that it is done with the motivation to strengthen the relationship and not harm it.  I think I have vented to my Lord twice in the year and a half that I have known him.  Once about him and once about work. 

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
Profile   Post #: 60
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