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RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 9:15:09 AM

Slipstreme

Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
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I think what you are seeing is a large number of people who would refer to themselves as submissives or slaves, who are really more of a bottom than either of the above: those here for the kink only. This isn't always a bad thing, it works for them, and they will likely find the ying to their yang later on in life anyway.

I will admit, my "submission" only goes so far as the fact I am a sadomasochist, who will randomly do nice things for the sole purpose of making my friends happy, because I like it when my friends are happy. I don't consider it service, and honestly, I would rather have someone else care for my needs. I don't see it happening in a long time though due to personal reasons.

Thus my profile states I am a Switch. However, more and more I've been tempted to change that to Dominant, because going under the lash does not make someone a submissive, and I am more dominant than anything, looking after myself first.

< Message edited by Slipstreme -- 3/23/2006 9:18:02 AM >

_____________________________

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For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 21

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 9:20:34 AM

JohnWarren

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

Thank you for recognizing that The Marketplace is fiction. Laura gets a bit testy with people who somehow feel that it provides some sort of blueprint for life.

I've also been around for a while in the scene and really don't recall any "Golden Age" where service was the ideal. It's always been a bit "do what you want" even among the gay groups I had contact with back in the 60's.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 22

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 9:33:00 AM

IndigoDadesi

Posts: 185
Status: offline

I dont think this is necessarily a M/s discussion. Dont all couples argue over who does what housework?

As for in the M/s contexted: Ive been having a hell of a time training my slave to do housework. I love him dearly and am having a wonderful time training him to do all the "fun bits", but really, no one LIKES to do housework and I cant really expect him to do it because it will please me without some resistance. Its my job as his Mistress to break down that resistance.

I mean, how many dogs really want to get up out of their warm comfy bed and do that stupid trick for their master for the hundreth time? None. But they do it anyway because theyve been trained to know that if they do the trick their master will be pleased with them and then they will get the attention that they live for.

As much as I would love to say that my slave lives to please me, its just not true. Pleasing me is simply a bi-product of wanting my attention and doing what I train him to do to get that attention.

(in reply to tinygelfling)

Post #: 23

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 9:37:20 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IndigoDadesi
Pleasing me is simply a bi-product of wanting my attention and doing what I train him to do to get that attention.

I wouldn't say pleasing is a by-product (at least, I know it isn't for a lot of subs). But rather that pleasing you is not the SOLE motivation, nor always the primary motivation.

Sometimes even a loving, perfectly devoted and trained slave can have a bad day where they could care less whether their master is pleased with them or knowing they've done a good job. Their sense of commitment and long term fulfillment keeps them going.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to IndigoDadesi)

Post #: 24

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 9:50:21 AM

rose442

Posts: 60
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

I am reading all of the posts here so far and yes ALL posts are correct. ALL houses are different. ALL relationships are different. Each Dom/Master/Mistress runs there house different. To this girl service is ANYTHING that my Master wants me to do from making coffee to sitting still in between His legs, to pleasing Master sexually. whatever Master enjoys His girl doing, is servicing Him. Master enjoys watching me walk from one side of the room to the other to pick up something off the floor. Or enjoys knowing I am washing dishes in the nude because I want to and I am smiling knowing Master is watching me do it and loving watching me. Servicing Master comes in many ways. And one way is no better than any other DOMS way. Master is in control of His home. He makes the rules. And everyone in this house follows. He controls this girl and the kids. He takes care of the money that flows through this house. He takes care of us as well. Master smiles when I do something good and makes a coment of "good girl" or "I am proud of you". And that is what my life consists of. Pleasing Him in ALL ways possible. Servicing ones Owner is different for everyone and every house.

slave_rose442

(in reply to tinygelfling)

Post #: 25

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 9:53:45 AM

IndigoDadesi

Posts: 185
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: IndigoDadesi
Pleasing me is simply a bi-product of wanting my attention and doing what I train him to do to get that attention.

I wouldn't say pleasing is a by-product (at least, I know it isn't for a lot of subs). But rather that pleasing you is not the SOLE motivation, nor always the primary motivation.

Sometimes even a loving, perfectly devoted and trained slave can have a bad day where they could care less whether their master is pleased with them or knowing they've done a good job. Their sense of commitment and long term fulfillment keeps them going.

True enough. I suppose my point was more that a sub will only continue doing a task such as housework for so long before s/he will need praise/reward for doing it. Basic psych. conditioning: If the reward is removed the conditioned response will expire.

Of course I am way over simplifying things.

< Message edited by IndigoDadesi -- 3/23/2006 9:54:23 AM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 26

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 9:57:47 AM

TacomaCpl

Posts: 12
Joined: 1/31/2006
From: Tacoma, WA
Status: offline

As new CM members, and after reading through the posts on this topic, we see that the variances of opinions is as wide as the activities the term "lifestyle" covers. What works for couple A may or may not work for Couple B, and vice versa.

That being said, it is quite apparent to me, being the part of the couple with more years of active involvement, that there are more kink/top from the bottom/player profiles to filter through. This makes it more difficult to find the one that matches what each individual person or couple seeks if they are looking for a slave that will also be the one primarily responsible for part of the household duties as part of their place in the household. This is not to say that the Master/Mistress/Owner would be above doing their part in completing the household chores. Having the service/house slave the one primarily responsible frees up time for the Master/Mistress/Owner to do other things...such as generate income to the household, plan/set up play sessions or quiet/downtime which we all know everyone needs from time to time.

Are the tasks completed out of love for the Master/Mistress/Owner? That's a question for each individual person who does them as part of their role and place in the household. Some will answer yes, some will answer no, but either way, it's how you feel when you do them that is what counts if you are the one that does them or is tasked to do them.

Our humble opinion. Have a good day, A/all.

Tecelote & kitten (TacomaCpl)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 27

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 10:04:27 AM

HentaiGamerKitty

Posts: 131
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

Some of us are sexual-only submissives. I fall into that category. I am not submissive at ALL in day-to-day life. If a man thinks I'm cleaning his house or cooking his dinner, he needs to hire a maid, because I'm not doing it. In my home, chores are split 50/50 with my partner. I work a full time job and have a busy schedule. Why should I also have to make time to do all the housework? Just because I enjoy being tied up and beaten doesn't mean I enjoy cooking or cleaning.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 28

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 10:38:20 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

I would say with 33 years in the life you are uniquely qualified to noticed a collective shift in service viability. Me with only 10 years have not noticed it myself, I have always thought that it is a challenge to find your match in this lifestyle because orientations can vary so widely, yet we are in such a tiny percentage of the population.

But if there is a shift i would say it is because of the internet, in the old days folks were _invited_ to this life after being watched and assessed as to critical character traits: submissiveness, deference, willingness, and an overall service orientation, something some call the "spark".

Today anyone can come hang out and explore, so the pool of applicants can vary greatly.

(in reply to tinygelfling)

Post #: 29

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 10:40:27 AM

IndigoDadesi

Posts: 185
Status: offline

The way I figure it is: If housework is the only thing you are fighting about your relationship is probably off to a good start.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 30

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 10:53:19 AM

DementedDuo

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

SERVICE??????????

Service used to be one of the main things a submissive,and especially a slave provided for their Master/Mistress. The submissive or slave did not always enjoy the servitude for itself but normally did enjoy the feeling of pleasing their owners and doing things for them.

Now more and more frequently this seems to have fallen by the wayside.
It seems to me of late, watching my Master and Mistress seaching for another sub/slave to add to this poly house most subs/slaves are either not “into” this aspect of the lifestyle (ie:hard limit-housework) or they want to do it as 24/7 kink (ie:I want to be kept in shackles or a cage all day),or worse yet want to barter (ie:I did this for you,now I want a new ? bought for me).

"By entreaties and prayers, by submissiveness, by committing oneself to regular tributes and gifts, by flattering glorifications, it is also possible to exert pressure on the forces of nature, by making them favorably inclined: love binds and is bound." - " Nietzsche

Well done twicehappy.
you have put well in words exactly what Master and I have been feeling and observing during Our disappointing and frustrating search for slaves. While I know well the inherent tediousness of searching/hoping for the right Owner, I also share knowing it's simply part of the process. What does make it truly a chore is the lack of honesty on the part of any who insincerely label themselves as Dom/Domme or sub/slave as the case may be.
I'm my Master's sub; I'm also a switch, so I know both sides of the coin. It is understood that there are many different personalities, needs and desires that make up the fabric of this community and lifestyle, and they cannot be ignored if harmony and success is to be achieved on the part of all parties involved. However, I find myself constantly asking "why are these slaves who claim to be SEEKING slavery and service behaving more like prima donnas?" I will be the first to say I want exactly what I seek and not a settled-for facsimile, but profess to being confused when it comes to a slave behaving as Master and/or Mistress when "bartering" for a potential position as slave.
Let A/all be truly and genuinely who and what they are, but equally as important are the basic fundamentals and dynamics of BDSM that make it actually work. Isn't that what we are looking/striving for...something real that actually functions successfully somewhere else besides our minds??
There is great commitment and responsibility on the part of both Dom/Domme and sub/slave. My belief is it works if everyone honors that commitment and their role. Quite honestly, a Master or Mistress has a great deal to do when it comes to managing and attending slaves properly; I tire of the slaves who are so concerned with their "package deal" they, either inadvertently or deliberately, attempt to place their potential Owner in a position of servitude to them.

Master Nathan and I wish continued happiness to A/all who have found it, and hope it comes to those who seek it.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 31

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 10:58:31 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

all of these things are service,the kind i was speaking of, done for love

quote:

I don't think love has an awful lot to do with it.

Love has everything to do with it. At least for me, and i'm guessing many others. I for one could never submit to someone i did not love. They could go through the motions,but it would be empty,wooden feeling. We are speaking about service that comes from love here.

Actually, you are speaking of service that comes from love. Frankly I think service has a much wider range. Perhaps you should be a little more careful of the use of the term "we" - you really can only speak for yourself.

I'm really surprised that with your level of experience you aren't more familiar with people being in mutually rewarding BDSM based relationships where it isn't all about romantic love.

If I am starting to train a sub and I give him a list of errands for him to do, is it appropriate for him to hand them back with a "Sorry, I'm not in love with you yet so you'll have to wait - maybe next month"? Frankly, I'd probably send him on his merry way.

In my personal experience for myself <koff> I actually find that a more service oriented relationship works better if there isn't a romantic attachment, and vice versa.

< Message edited by MsSonnetMarwood -- 3/23/2006 11:02:02 AM >

_____________________________

~Ms. Sonnet Marwood~

Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 32

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 12:28:11 PM

SweetEscravo

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

There are some subs who like to serve and those who do not. Just because someone is submissive doesn't mean they need to wait on their dom/me. The sub may happen to be a pain slut, or not want a 24/7 lifestyle. I agree that as a submissive, one should work to make their dom/me happy, but what if service is not what makes that dom/me happy? Personally, my dom LIKES helping me with some chores such as cooking dinner and running errands. Its all about what works for the couple. There are no generalizations that can be drawn for everyone.

(in reply to tinygelfling)

Post #: 33

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 12:40:30 PM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

O M G!!!

Merc, leave it to you to take the words so eloquently right out of my mouth. You are completely and totally right on here. On everything, especially the idea of the double edged sword.

This is why I'm very specific when I discuss the aspects of BDSM. Not every one who's involved is involved for the same reasons. Some are into the B&D, Some the D/s, some the SM and some a conglomeration. Unfortunately, what I've seen over the last several years is folks showing up who are 'curious' and don't really belong. We have a lot of "Masters" and "slaves" running around who don't really have a clue what they are talking about other than what they've studied up on the internet. For those of us who are actually living and breathing as part of the community, it has brought a lot of problems and assache for a number of reasons.

Kassie

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 34

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 12:48:37 PM

MsIncognito

Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy
Love has everything to do with it. At least for me, and i'm guessing many others. I for one could never submit to someone i did not love.

Can you really call yourself service oriented if you're only open to serving within the limited bounds of a relationship for LOVE? I've always found it ironic that the people who claim to be the most service oriented are those who really only want to serve one person that they LOVE because they LOVE them. To me, that sounds like a way to get love in return, not serving purely for the joy of serving. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything wrong with it (to each their own is one of my favourite mottos) I just find it odd when it's presented as a better, more pure way of expressing one's submission or slavery. IMO if one is truly service oriented they will serve in other ways - community organizations, volunteering, etc. Mother Teresa was purely service oriented. "Slaves" who prefer this as part of their relationship dynamic are just that - people who like a dynamic were they respond to the wants/needs/desires of one other person, but let's not make that out to be anything more than that, mkay?

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 35

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 12:48:56 PM

tinygelfling

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

While I know well the inherent tediousness of searching/hoping for the right Owner, I also share knowing it's simply part of the process. What does make it truly a chore is the lack of honesty on the part of any who insincerely label themselves as Dom/Domme or sub/slave as the case may be.

I think that many times this happens because not enough self examining has taken place. The concept of a power exchange relationship can seem simple enough on the surface, actually *living it* is hugely different.

(in reply to DementedDuo)

Post #: 36

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 12:52:35 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

Most subs/slaves used to consider it to be part of their role to provide service, that is, of a non sexual sort and gained great emotional satisfaction and even pleasure from providing such. I am speaking of the normal day to day services, bringing a soda, making sure the Master/Mistress has a full box of their favorite tissues by their chair, arranging fresh flowers on the table.Things the owners may not have directly commented on but you, the slave knew made them happy or comfortable. The little things that they gently patted your cheek for.

Been doing all that and more for 37 years, way longer than i've known about bdsm. It used to be that that's what a "good wife" did.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to twicehappy)

Post #: 37

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 1:01:28 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

Dont all couples argue over who does what housework?

Not this couple.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to IndigoDadesi)

Post #: 38

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 1:09:24 PM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

quote:

Original Quote: proudsub
It used to be that that's what a "good wife" did.

Thats really true, that's one of the reasons I find it hard to define a Master/slave relationship as a "service orientated" one as a means to show the difference between this kind of relationship and a vanilla one....cuz in reality, all the service parts are stereo typical of what an old fashion wife was supposed to do to look after her man, serve him, obey him, be subservient to him....those service aspects are really defining a traditional vanilla relationship.

Thats one of the reasons that I will jump right in and say being a slave is a lot about the sex and play aspects.

I love pleasing Master and being subservient to him, I absolutely love doing as I'm told and being directed, I love Him having the final word, I love keeping "his castle" in good order...but really...all thats saying is...Im an old fashioned girlie (vanilla one at that).

However, when I introduce concepts of the ways in which He likes to play with me, what goes on in our bedrooom, I can hardly say thats vanilla in the slightest. It is the thing that separates and defines away from a traditional old fashion vanilla relationship. Its this that makes it Master/slave in a modern sense.

Perhaps it would be valid or easier for a male submissive to define and separate his Mistress/slave relationship from a traditional vanilla one by saying its "Service Orientated" towards his female partner, as he is breaking the traditional (Old fashioned) roles.

So, for those Dominants seeking a female slave who is "Service Orientated" I would suggest just simply looking for an old fashioned girl who enjoys the traditional roles of a vanilla relationship as well as enjoying submitting to the kinks you like and you will have yourself one heck of a slave that pleases you *grin*.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 3/23/2006 1:24:57 PM >

(in reply to proudsub)

Post #: 39

RE: What ever happened to service? - 3/23/2006 1:10:06 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

Its too bad Veronicaofml is not around to talk shop about such things.

(in reply to proudsub)

Post #: 40

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