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When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 7:13:53 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		This question has arisen in my mind several times over the past several weeks.  In a M/s relationship does the Master/Dom/me EVER cheat? Or is it simply He/She is Master/Dom/me and His/Her submissive/slave has to bury any misgivings about it?  Is it not cheating, simply because He/She went to their spouse/significant other and told them they were searching for others?  Or, is it only cheating when He/She does it behind another's back?  How do Yyou define cheating?  Thank you.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 7:22:41 AM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		Eh, to each their own I guess, there are people who belive in monogamy , some are poly, some some dont consider it cheating of thier partner fools around with the same sex.  Each person has their own limit and standard.
I personally believe in a monogamous relationship, mostly because Im the only child in my family and dont like to share :) 

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 7:29:17 AM   
Fallcourt


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/13/2005
Status: offline 		I suppose the most accurate answer isn't always the easiest to define.
Cheating is when it either could or will hurt the other person in the relationship. If they're open to the idea and have no qualms or issues with sharing, then no I don't believe it's cheating. but if they're having to put on a happy face and pretend it doesn't hurt, it's something that should be avoided. just my two cents.
Fall


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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 7:32:09 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's cheating when you feel you have to hide it.

Yes, masters can cheat.  Masters get scared and feel the need to hide things, too.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 7:45:42 AM   
MysticalPhoenix


Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline 		It's cheating when...

...there is an expectation of a monogamous pairing, and one of the partners seeks a third party and engages in extracurricular activities without the knowledge and/or consent of the other partner.
...there is an expecation of a polyfidelitous grouping, and one of the members of that group seeks out another partner and engages in activities without the knowledge and/or consent of the other people in the group

It's cheating any time there is an expectation of fidelity in a relationship (whether monogamy or polyamory-fidelity is still fidelity) and one of the people involved in that relationship seeks out other partners without telling the person/people they are involved with.  Or, even worse, lies to them about it.

Anyone can cheat-including a Dominant partner in a relationship where their Sub has an expoectation of fidelity.  It's actually possible for a Dominant to cheat in an open poly relationship-if part of the agreement is that all other partners are to be disclosed.   Always be sure to negotiate that carefully before commitment. 

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:07:20 AM   
MasterOwnskitty


Posts: 97
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		I would say that cheating is defined as having another relationship, be it sexual or not, with a third party without your primary partner's consent. How and when that consent is established is between the two of you.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:09:45 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterOwnskitty
I would say that cheating is defined as having another relationship, be it sexual or not, with a third party without your primary partner's consent. How and when that consent is established is between the two of you.

But you can also cheat on a third party.  And how do you define "relationship"?

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:12:58 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

This question has arisen in my mind several times over the past several weeks. In a M/s relationship does the Master/Dom/me EVER cheat? Or is it simply He/She is Master/Dom/me and His/Her submissive/slave has to bury any misgivings about it? Is it not cheating, simply because He/She went to their spouse/significant other and told them they were searching for others? Or, is it only cheating when He/She does it behind another's back? How do Yyou define cheating? Thank you.


I consider it cheating when there is no communciation and no agreement ahead of time.

When it comes to a Ds dynamic or an owner-slave dyanamic (or hell, even a vanilla dynamic) I think these issues are best dealt with in the beginning and an established venue of continuing communication set up.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:13:20 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		IMO, it's cheating if you can't tell your spouse/submissive/Dom/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc about it. If you can't come home after being with the other person(s) and tell your significant other(s) about it  then it's cheating. I think this applies for any relationship despite it's flavour.

I think that if a partner comes home and informs you that they are going to be with others then that its not cheating because it gives you the opportunity to decide if you want to remain in the situation or not. It is the lack of knowledge on the other person's part that makes it cheating, IMO.

< Message edited by MsIncognito -- 3/23/2006 8:16:14 AM >

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:18:11 AM   
MasterOwnskitty


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quote:

But you can also cheat on a third party.  And how do you define "relationship"?



Yes, you can ... it would then be defined as double cheating. Again, no consent equals cheating, in my mind.

A relationship comes in many forms. I believe that the primary foundation for a relationship is based on trust, respect, and compassion for the other person. If you have those three, a relationship can be formed. Without them, it's simply two warm bodies together.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:27:17 AM   
angelic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterOwnskitty

quote:

But you can also cheat on a third party.  And how do you define "relationship"?



so, if there is no consent, it's cheating?  i tend to agree with you on that.



Yes, you can ... it would then be defined as double cheating. Again, no consent equals cheating, in my mind.

A relationship comes in many forms. I believe that the primary foundation for a relationship is based on trust, respect, and compassion for the other person. If you have those three, a relationship can be formed. Without them, it's simply two warm bodies together.


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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:35:41 AM   
BeachMystress


Posts: 2156
Joined: 4/3/2004
From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
Status: offline 		My feeling is that it is cheating any time that all parties involved are not made aware of any others.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:44:36 AM   
starymists


Posts: 139
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline
Well said MysticalPheonix!! That definition pretty much covers it for me. As far as the rest of the questions...

I never simply bury anything. It’s been my experience that buried misgivings/ feelings/ thoughts lead to blocks in communication. Blocks in communication begin to grow and eventually start to chip away at the foundation of the relationship. Blocks in communication lead to walls, hiding and all manner of things that are not healthy for a relationship. So if I have something going on, I bring it to my Dominant...in a respectful way. My bringing an issue to the table does not mean my Dominant will alter his course, but it does open the avenue that allows him to know what’s going on with me and how to best help me address those areas.

As far as simply going to an existing partner and saying ‘This is now part of our arrangement, deal with it’, it’s not, at least in my mind, technically cheating...but it does raise a number of red flags for me. To begin with, it shows a complete lack of regard for the thoughts and feelings of the partner. It shows a complete lack of caring for the long term prospects of that relationship. And if someone is showing that to someone he/she is already in relationship with, how long will it take before that level of callousness is shown to me? How long till the stress of the unspoken negativity starts to take a toll on the new relationship?

I will say that there are some that believe a slave has no right to object to anything his/her Master does. I tend to disagree. Even a slave will petition or request release if a relationship ceases to work for him/her. If the current partner isn’t poly natured, then being forced into a poly situation is simply not likely to work in the long term, regardless of whether he/she is a sub or slave.

I will say that for me, I have no right to control my Dominant. But nor does he have the right to treat me like a door mat. At least in my case, I found a Dominant who, in his natural state of being, meets most of my wants and needs. We have built a relationship based on mutual trust, respect and caring. Therefore, I don’t really need to worry about that. I am free to focus on his wants and needs because I am taken care of inside of the relationship. And that, at least for me, is a recipe for long term success.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 8:46:30 AM   
clodivs


Posts: 29
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline 		Cheating can be broadly defined as breaking or disregarding the parameters of a relationship, in some form or another.  This can be having sex or playing with someone else, or even spending too much on 'frivolous' items! 
Every relationship has parameters, including (perhaps especially) a d/s relationship.  D/s relationships tend to define the parameters more specifically than most, but, even so, there can be parameters that one party (or all parties) takes for granted without them being explicitly described.  As such, one party to a relationship can define something as cheating while the other doesn't see it as such.  In cases like this, communication is key; the issue needs to be brought up without necessarily rancor or prejudgement.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 11:05:00 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

How do Yyou define cheating? 


angelic,
When you are not true to yourself.

When in a relationship, "cheating" is when any member of the relationship is not true to the relationship. That encompasses monogamy, polygamy, open marriages and everything in between.

Of course if you haven't defined yourself or your relationship you have more of an open ended definition of cheating. If you don't continue the process and, when need be, re-define yourself and your relationship as time goes on you can find yourself in conflict. Communication and constant effort is needed. Just like a person, a relationship is a 'living entity'. As time goes, situations change, physical abilities change, and adjustments may be needed, but having a foundation of common goals making those adjustments easier. A 'contract' may not be an enforceable document, but as a reference for relationship guidelines it's a great focusing tool. "Cheating" is easy to define if you have these guidelines and well as relationship goals as source documents.

Even if they are never put in force or referenced again, drafting "rules" or a "contract" or goals at the initiation of a relationship should be at least as important as establishing play parameter for a scene. "Cheating" in a scene by exceeding the pre-agreed limits is universally discouraged if not condemned. Cheat in a relationship and you'll have a line of supporters helping you rationalize. It would seem that more emphasis is given to physical pain than mental or emotional. I feel is a misplaced priority.

Those who have gone through both - which is more damaging and long lasting?

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 11:11:15 AM   
BrianSenior


Posts: 88
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		I agree completely, if you have to hide it, its wrong. ~BK~

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 11:17:10 AM   
Angeni


Posts: 88
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

In a M/s relationship does the Master/Dom/me EVER cheat? 

There are those just as dishonest in this lifestyle as there are in any other.
 
quote:

  Or is it simply He/She is Master/Dom/me and His/Her submissive/slave has to bury any misgivings about it?

I am confused as to why you think that anyone ever has to bury their feelings about such things?
 
quote:

  Is it not cheating, simply because He/She went to their spouse/significant other and told them they were searching for others?

No, I do not see it as cheating. I would see it as communicating a need to your partner.
 
quote:

  Or, is it only cheating when He/She does it behind another's back?

Yes. In my opinion, if it is done without the other's knowledge , then it is cheating.
 
quote:

How do Yyou define cheating? 

I believe that I have already given my definition of such.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 11:18:57 AM   
truesub4u


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

IMO, it's cheating if you can't tell your spouse/submissive/Dom/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc about it. If you can't come home after being with the other person(s) and tell your significant other(s) about it  then it's cheating. I think this applies for any relationship despite it's flavour.

I think that if a partner comes home and informs you that they are going to be with others then that its not cheating because it gives you the opportunity to decide if you want to remain in the situation or not. It is the lack of knowledge on the other person's part that makes it cheating, IMO.


This post here has been bugging me for past couple of hours. And now I know why... it talks of "afterwards".
You walk in and tell someone... AFTER the fact... that you have been with someone... hell... IMO... that's cheating period.
If one wants to cheat.... and tells the other/s,,, that's one thing... (I personally still think it's fucked up but that's on a different thread).... But to go out and cheat... THEN come tell me... Oh hell no!... There's no forgive and forget. Trust all gone.. bye bye...

And if ones comes in and says... I want to be with so n so.... lump it or leave it... be sure the door knob DOES hit you in the ass on the way out.
There are ways of handling things... and all because one is a  Dom... and the Dom might think their word is final....  funny alot of the times.. the final sound isn't his word..but the door slamming shut.

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/23/2006 11:20:06 AM >

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 11:22:21 AM   
Angeni


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quote:

There are ways of handling things... and all because one is a  Dom... and the Dom might think their word is final....  funny alot of the times.. the final sound isn't his word..but the door slamming shut.

I find it extremely curious that most seem to think that is only the 'Dom/Master' who could possibly cheat? ( Meaning the Male ) Females are just as dishonest as males are in some situations.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 11:32:39 AM   
truesub4u


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Angeni

quote:

There are ways of handling things... and all because one is a  Dom... and the Dom might think their word is final....  funny alot of the times.. the final sound isn't his word..but the door slamming shut.

I find it extremely curious that most seem to think that is only the 'Dom/Master' who could possibly cheat? ( Meaning the Male ) Females are just as dishonest as males are in some situations.

Oh I agree with you on this.. all the way... subs can be just as sneaky, scheming, scandalis as any Dom... I just used Dom in my example from my side of it. I've done some fucked up things in my life.. but cheated on a spouse, Dom, Master... after vowing to be with them only... Holding my head up with pride... I can only quote Jimmy Carter when asked if he ever cheated on his wife... his reply.. Only in my mind.

But yep... again I agree... sub/slaves can and some have cheated just as much if not sometimes more... than Owners...

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/23/2006 11:33:39 AM >

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