RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 10:57:41 PM

Lockit

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So it is okay for a dominant man, who believes that dominant women cannot be feminine... to tell a dominant woman she is a twat and she should go fuck a rabid wolverine and that is a good dominant trait of a real dominant man in his proper place?

You are an example of a good dominant male? It is a strong man who who goes around battering people simply because he believes they are less somehow and he is better in every way?

Yeah... okay... don't know what planet you are on... but you keep on keepin on dude...

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Psychonaut23)

Post #: 201

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 10:58:10 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I see you are really mastering the art of talking out of your ass. ;-)

I know I'm feminine. The men who have adored me know I'm feminine. Your opinion is of absolutely no consequence.

Yeah...when you tell me off like you got a pair, that doesn't really sell the whole "I'm feminine" thing. I mean, if you were really feminine, you'd be apologizing right now. Because that's what really feminine women do, they apologize for shit that isn't even remotely their fault.

Did you snake bite you and is the venim attacking your brain? No but seriously. You so absolutely out there in left field that it isn't even funny.

quote:

And again, it's not a value judgment or anything.

Oh no, not at all a value judgement! ;-) You, Psychonaut23, making a value judgement? Oh no... I wouldn't believe it.

quote:

I'm just saying: if you think they're aren't women out there who are a lot more feminine than you, then you're at least a a little bit delusional. A little bit.

Well thankfully I never made any such claims. You are the one who is delusional imagining that I said such things.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Psychonaut23)

Post #: 202

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:01:42 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I see you are really mastering the art of talking out of your ass. ;-)

I know I'm feminine. The men who have adored me know I'm feminine. Your opinion is of absolutely no consequence.

Yeah...when you tell me off like you got a pair, that doesn't really sell the whole "I'm feminine" thing. I mean, if you were really feminine, you'd be apologizing right now. Because that's what really feminine women do, they apologize for shit that isn't even remotely their fault.

And again, it's not a value judgment or anything. I'm just saying: if you think they're aren't women out there who are a lot more feminine than you, then you're at least a a little bit delusional. A little bit.

I apologize for saying this, but are you kidding? I truly hope you were just attempting to be amusing.

(in reply to Psychonaut23)

Post #: 203

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:02:12 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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LOL... and real women... submissive women... apologize for the faults of abusive talking men! Oh I thought I was going to bed... but I may have to watch this... lol

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Post #: 204

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:04:17 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

You are an example of a good dominant male? It is a strong man who who goes around battering people simply because he believes they are less somehow and he is better in every way?

It is actually a good thing that he is posting his total incompetence in the forums. That way it acts as a warning to all the woman he might muster up an ounce of charm to pursue. The warning goes a little something like this:

Psychonaut23
Qu'est-ce que c'est?
fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
Run run run run run run run away
OH OH OH
AY AY AY AY AY WOO

Apologies to the Talking Heads for mangling their song, but I couldn't help myself!

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/16/2010 11:05:36 PM >

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 205

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:09:13 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

You are an example of a good dominant male? It is a strong man who who goes around battering people simply because he believes they are less somehow and he is better in every way?

It is actually a good thing that he is posting his total incompetence in the forums. That way it acts as a warning to all the woman he might muster up an ounce of charm to pursue. The warning goes a little something like this:

Psychonaut23
Qu'est-ce que c'est?
fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa better
Run run run run run run run away
OH OH OH
AY AY AY AY AY WOO

Apologies to the Talking Heads for mangling their song, but I couldn't help myself!

- LA

Tina Weymouth would give you a heads up on that...:)

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 206

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:10:16 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

Psychonaut23 [Awaiting Approval]

Fabulous!

- LA

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Post #: 207

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:11:01 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

LOL... well I guess I can go to bed now... awaiting approval can take a while.

Lucy says good night all! lol

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Post #: 208

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:13:29 PM

VideoAdminAlpha

Posts: 3876
Joined: 7/25/2008
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Things are rather backed up.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 209

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:14:06 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Oh.. do.. take your time... please! lol

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Post #: 210

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:14:35 PM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

Okay. You do know that male and masculine are not the same thing, right? I'm not saying males are dominant, since that's clearly not true, I'm saying that domination is masculine. Most of your comment seems to confuse masculine and male.

I didn't say that submissive men were weak. Here's a neat trick: Stop reading so much crap into my comments, and try dealing with what I actually said.

Masculine:

Websters Unabridged Dictionary:
1. Pertaining to or characteristic of a man or men
2. Having qualities traditionally ascribed to men, as strength and boldness

Oxford English Reference Dictionary:
1. Of or characteristic of men
2. Manly, vigerous

Synonyms: manly, male-oriented, testosteronic, mannish, boyish, muscular, strong, rugged, robust

I could go on, but I won't belabor the point. As you can clearly see, masculine is synonymous with and wired to "man" and "strong". When you claim submissiveness is not a masculine trait, you are essentially stating that submissiveness can neither be strong nor related to men / maleness. This is not confusing the discussion; it is keeping it literally accurate.

Edited to add: It's possible you are just using the wrong words to illustrate your point, but I would welcome you describing your take on it in another way.

< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 1/16/2010 11:31:22 PM >

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(in reply to Psychonaut23)

Post #: 211

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:16:18 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

That song made me laugh!

All things in moderation, I suppose. Crap. We didn't even make it through the month of January.

Psychonaut, I will say one thing. MarcEsadrian and I have such different life experiences, and outlooks, as to be from other sides of the universe sometimes. However, I have never seen him publish a post that failed to cohere. (By contrast, I post sloppy all the time.) And I mean, never, not under this, nor his previous, screenname. He's been haunting these halls a long time. If he says you made a logical error in a post, you made it. Take that to the bank. The only way out is to change your position, or to restate with better language.

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- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 212

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:21:30 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
That song made me laugh!

I love that song. I was listening to it earlier today on my iPod. It was so appropriate!

quote:

All things in moderation, I suppose. Crap. We didn't even make it through the month of January.

Well he is the 2nd in January. I guess even Collarme Mods have hard limits!

quote:

Psychonaut, I will say one thing. MarcEsadrian and I have such different life experiences, and outlooks, as to be from other sides of the universe sometimes. However, I have never seen him publish a post that failed to cohere. (By contrast, I post sloppy all the time.) And I mean, never, not under this, nor his previous, screenname. He's been haunting these halls a long time. If he says you made a logical error in a post, you made it. Take that to the bank. The only way out is to change your position, or to restate with better language.

I concur!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 213

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:37:42 PM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
If he says you made a logical error in a post, you made it. Take that to the bank. The only way out is to change your position.

I'm going to print this out and mail it to all my ex's.

_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 214

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/16/2010 11:59:18 PM

InvisibleBlack

Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I mean, if you were really feminine, you'd be apologizing right now. Because that's what really feminine women do, they apologize for shit that isn't even remotely their fault.

I wasn't going to post on this thead since I pretty much don't have a lot to offer on the concept of 'forced' masculinity, however you've now inspired me.

I think you've confused femininity with weakness and masculinity with control. I don't believe "feminine" and "weak" necessarily have any points of correspondence. Many extremely feminine women come across as having quite strong personalities. Someone here used John Wayne as an example of a "masculine man". I will put forward Lauren Bacall (or at least a number of the characters she portrayed) as being a very "feminine woman" without being weak or someone who will "apologize for shit that isn't even remotely their fault".

Similarly, I don't believe that being "masculine" requires someone to be in charge. Some masculine men dominate and run things. Some do not.

The concept of a powerful, extremely masculine man being inspired and empowered by a woman he is obsessed with beyond all reason is fairly common (Caesar and Cleopatra & Lancelot and Guinivere come to mind readily). I can easily understand someone finding resonance in either side of this dynamic and looking to emulate it - the trick is probably finding someone worthy (but isn't that the trick for any relationship?).

< Message edited by InvisibleBlack -- 1/17/2010 12:00:22 AM >

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Post #: 215

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/17/2010 2:04:59 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

Sorry it took me so long to reply-I went to bed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
What?! Having wild kinky not-quite-sex with an attractive girl would throw his masculinity into question?!? He said there was some locker-room teasing about scratch-marks on his back a few times, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't negative.

Yeah. It would. Especially when they found out that there is no actual sex involved. He might be able to salvage his masculinity from bottoming if it got him laid, but normal dudes aren't going to see anything but weird in bottoming for the sake of bottoming.

Fair enough, I guess-all I can say in response is that I went to a fair few of his matches/post-match lash-ups, and we made no secret of the fact that I was gay, so the more intelligent among them must have known that something was up.

quote:

I'm saying that the Dommes I've seen online, like Lady Angelika, don't strike me as being particularly feminine.

I've never met her. The people on this thread who have, however, seem pretty certain that she is some kind of red-hot-ultra-feminine-goddess-woman, and I'm inclined to believe their experience over what 'strikes' you. This is partly because plain text messages can give a misleading impression of a person's character, and partly because I suspect that at this point you might just be winding me up. There's a beautiful girl making bacon sandwiches for breakfast in the next room though, so I'm feeling pretty mellow about that right now.

quote:

But yeah, much like submission is not masculine, domination is not feminine.

Maybe I used the wrong phrase when I said 'casting aspersions', but the fact is that you are making statements (more neutral) about the masculine/feminine attributes of something you have never seen.

quote:

What personal experience could possibly be any more relevant than any other? This is not a BDSM thing.

The fact that you can't see what everyone else here seems able to see leads me to believe that personal experience IS relevant here. You've never seen a man submit. You've never seen a man show off that he can hover with his hands tied at his sides and hold his torso juuuust above the bed for ages using only his abs. You've never seen a man lift a Domme up to sit on a counter-top so she has access to his shoulders (because she's a bit of a midget and he is so unfairly, unreasonably tall). Come to think of it, you've never smelt the sweat rolling off him while he's submitting.

Those things are masculine, and I'm sorry that you can't see that but right now I can smell coffee too, so I'm inclined to just let it go after this post.

Edited because clauses are not my friends.

< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 1/17/2010 2:14:54 AM >

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Post #: 216

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/17/2010 5:31:55 AM

PeonForHer

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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because she's a bit of a midget and he is so unfairly, unreasonably tall.

Reminds me: have we covered 'tall is masculine, short is feminine' issue in this thread yet? We urgently need to establish rules here and now, so that those who don't qualify can arrange to have bone titanium implants in their legs, or bits of them chopped off. ;-)

To all:

Right, as far as I'm concerned the concepts of 'masculine' and 'feminine' are a waste of mental energy and I can't be arsed to engage with anyone who, at least in part, clearly wants to play devil's advocate by insisting otherwise. I also don't believe for a second that 'masculinity' (whatever that means to anyone) can be 'enforced'. You'll only ever get some silly, temporary parody of what you want that way, IMO.

But something that some people may want to call 'masculine' gets inspired in me by certain women. It's to do with qualities of gentleness, kindness, empathy . . . traits I feel to be admirable (partly because some women have shown me that they have more of these qualities than I do) but which also, to my mind, make her vulnerable. I see those - and the white knight bit of me blinks and wakes up.

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Post #: 217

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/17/2010 5:55:38 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

because she's a bit of a midget and he is so unfairly, unreasonably tall.

Reminds me: have we covered 'tall is masculine, short is feminine' issue in this thread yet? We urgently need to establish rules here and now, so that those who don't qualify can arrange to have bone titanium implants in their legs, or bits of them chopped off. ;-)

I didn't mean that being tall makes anyone masculine-I was just moaning about the fact that I'm short... :-p

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Post #: 218

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/17/2010 6:40:35 AM

PeonForHer

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I know, VC - no worries.

We've done 'can shorties be femdoms?' here a few times: the clear consensus has always been 'Yes, they can.' LadyPact and Lockit are fine examples.

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Post #: 219

RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/17/2010 7:22:15 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
I also don't believe for a second that 'masculinity' (whatever that means to anyone) can be 'enforced'. You'll only ever get some silly, temporary parody of what you want that way, IMO.

I concur. I guess you missed the 2 or 3 posts where I talk about the fact that the word forced in the title was a joke, and the 2 or 4 posts where people said that they got that.

quote:

But something that some people may want to call 'masculine' gets inspired in me by certain women. It's to do with qualities of gentleness, kindness, empathy . . . traits I feel to be admirable (partly because some women have shown me that they have more of these qualities than I do) but which also, to my mind, make her vulnerable. I see those - and the white knight bit of me blinks and wakes up.

I talked about inspiring, coaching, etc. Ooooh... and knights ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 220

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