Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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FR
First of all nobody should be calling anyone stupid here. Even saying "you don't even understand" can be constured as such and will alienate the reader. Once you "accomplish" that you might as well go home.
And yes, people have really won against the IRS, not being forced to pay the tax. Although there are only certain circumstances under which one can do this.
And the driving end of it, well they did close a few loopholes. Back when this merry little group was quite active, at least around here when they offered rebates on new cars the commercial included "does not apply to sovereign sales". Why would they do that ? A sovereign sale is much like when some people buy car for collectible purposes, they have to pay cash and insist that the car does not come with a title, or certificate of title. They get the manufacturer's statement of origin. It is rare, but some people do it. In such a case they could still impound your car, but never dispose of it. For proof should I take a digital camera to the impound and show you the 1985 Chevy Blazer that they can't get rid of even though the owner has been dead for five years ? In other words, when a state titles a car, they own it. You are nothing but a holder. You don't pick the car up in time, paying all the charges, it is a simple matter for them to send it to the junkyard or the crusher.
By law they would have to pay you the fair market value of the car, which is right there in the Consitution. But you understand that you really don't own a car if you have a title issued by the state. You have ceded ownership to them.
By the same token the deed to your house is the same thing. In Ohio they call it a title deed. If you really owned it, they would not be able to tax it at all. Granted property taxes do serve a purpose, but in law if you really own the property they cannot take it. But they can, because you never owned it in the first place. So realize that very few people actually own a car or a house in this country.
Another example if taken that way, if you buy a used car from a private owner you pay sales tax again. Technically impossible, but once titled, the value of the car becomes the value of actually holding title to it, and therefore since a new title is issued, the tax is actually on the title. This has nothing to do with buying a used car from a car lot, which is a business. If I sold you a used couch should there be sales tax ? Of course if a used furniture store does it, there is tax.
When you hear of these things, we sound like we are talking in circles, but that's because that's they way they made it. And this was intentional. Laws can be written that would be struck down immediately if not specific enough or had no basis in law. The basis in law is that they can't confiscate your property unless you commit a real crime or if they owned it in the first place. So as far as driving is concerned you are actually driving their car on their roads.
So, as ironic as it may seem, you own nothing, and this especially applies to things that have certificates of title or title deeds or some sort of registered "ownership". Case in point, a birth certificate. They own YOU. Let's not go into that so fast, nobody is ready for that aspect of it.
Most people don't know that there are ways to opt out of many things. A title is but a form of insurance. You can opt out of social security, but you better be able to handle retirement yourself. Impossible you say ? Bullshit. Here we have what is called PERS and people who get into that are out of social security, they neither pay nor get any. Public employees in this state use it. You can opt out of unemployment insurance, but you better have faith in your job. You can opt out of workman's comp also, but the company better have deep pockets if you get hurt and it is their fault. Million dollar lawsuits have a bad effect on business. You can drive around with an MSO instead of a title, but one if your car gets stolen, you are screwed. If they tow it, it might take a lifetime to get back, but you did stick it in their craw. But what good did it do you ? My buddy with the Blazer got towed and never drove it again, that is the end result. That's why it is so important to pick your battles.
If you make say $30,000 a year, you would be a total idiot to fight the IRS. If you make ten times that, it is a different story. If you are buying a house in the city, just shaddap, you don't need mineral rights. But if you buy 400 acres adjacent to oil or gas yielding land, it is a different story. What is worth it and what is not ?
That is the crux of the matter. Fighting the gov on law can be expensive, time consuming and difficult. They have unlimited resources, none of us do.
So I don't recommend anyone go on this crusade. Usually it is just not worth it, but to be aware of these things is something that every US Citizen should be. Know that this country is special in that regard, nowhere else in the world do these options exist, but they are part and parcel of the body of law here. And that works both ways. The development of the current system came to be because at one time people knew their rights. They want to look like they have closed every avenue of defense against their - dare I say it - tyranny.
My buddy, who beat them on two fronts, growing pot and taxes, spent an ernormous amount of time and money to do it. I didn't believe at first that it could be done and said to him "You are the guinea pig then" and he agreed. He was and it paid off for him. But in the end I see the results first hand. But how do I prove that ?
In a way maybe I should STFU. Maybe I could get him to let me scan the document from the IRS that states that he is classified as a non-taxpayer. I have seen it with my own eyes. But how do I prove it ?
In the beginning I was very skeptical, but not now. Why ? Think I'm crazy or something ? (don't answer that). But then why should I expect people to just believe me when they are no more skeptical than I was ? This does leave me with a dillema.
Perhaps I should get him to get a membership here. I know he is kink aware and receptive and compliant to his partners' wishes, that should make him OK here right ? But even my lawyer, who was his lawyer at some point told me that he does good research. He's the one who would have links to support these claims. I'll contact him soon.
T
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RE: Common-law Right to Travel - 
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