RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths

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kdsub -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 8:37:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML The article gives this as the official story from the NCIS report: According to the NCIS, each prisoner had fashioned a noose from torn sheets and T-shirts and tied it to the top of his cell’s eight-foot-high steel-mesh wall. Each prisoner was able somehow to bind his own hands, and, in at least one case, his own feet, then stuff more rags deep down into his own throat. We are then asked to believe that each prisoner, even as he was choking on those rags, climbed up on his washbasin, slipped his head through the noose, tightened it, and leapt from the washbasin to hang until he asphyxiated. The NCIS report also proposes that the three prisoners, who were held in non-adjoining cells, carried out each of these actions almost simultaneously. I try to be wary of conspiracy theories but after Abu Ghraib and some other bullshit stories we have been given, I don't understand how anyone can read the details without suspicion. I don't understand how the current Justice Department can pass this by. But then I also don't understand how the current Justice Dept and the Senate investigating committees can pass by the allegations of torture at Gitmo and CIA locations around the world. Are we all just like Shultz, the German prison guard in "Hogan's Heros" who happily repeated over and over "I know NOTHING." Then are we not all complicit? Is Obama any different from Bush the Little? What caught my eye about it was the rags in their throats. Remember the descriptions of how waterboarding was done, by placing a rag over the prisoner's faces? It does sound like a cover-up. Who uses two different types of asphyxiation to commit suicide. Sounds like they maybe they were being tortured, had rags down their throats. Something happened. They were left alone for some time. And while they were alone they choked because of the rags. So since they died of asphyxiation you use hanging to explain it. But this sounds like overkill. Tied their hands, and feet. Stuffed rags down their throat. And hung themselves. Possible I guess if they were trying to make some type of statement with their deaths. But not likely. These sound like real smart people...Can't you just hear these well trained intelligent CIA interrogators...lets make it look like suicide by binding their hands and feet and stuffing rags down their throats...yea right...would you be that stupid? Look up the example I posted above… he tore his sheets…he tied them to a vent…he tied his own hands…and he hung himself…it can be and has been done. To me it sounds like a suicide pact to try and incriminate Gitmo to the world…These are fanatics who believe paradise is waiting for them...A lot better then being kept in a cage…It seems to of worked. Butch

Musicmystery -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 9:05:03 AM)
It sound to me like those drugs are clouding your judgment. I do hope you feel better soon. I only have L4 pain at times, and that's plenty for me.

kdsub -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 9:30:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery It sound to me like those drugs are clouding your judgment. I do hope you feel better soon. I only have L4 pain at times, and that's plenty for me. lol...could be...but did you look up Maury Travis ...do a search plenty of info on him...almost the exact same way of committing suicide while under suicide watch. It just goes to show it is a real possibility...in fact a better one then you are expounding...now where is my Oxycodone and Diazepam? Butch

kdsub -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 9:39:17 AM)
You know Musicmystery I've take a lot of drugs over the years ...all legal, well mostly, but no kidding Oxycodone does mess up my mind... I do hope it is not reflected here...but it does make me forgetful, talkative, and yes confused at times...It is some wicked stuff taken for a long period of time. But I don't believe it is a problem here....I think. Butch

vincentML -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 12:07:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince I believe his name was Maury Travis His mother tried to sue the jail because he was found hanged with his hands tied behind his back...even though he was monitored...a guard checked him every 15 minutes and another inmate across from his cell was also asked to watch over him... Evidently there was a blind spot in his cell where he committed suicide... The guy was an animal there are videos you can look at he took of killing the girls. There is no reason for the guards to hang him he just got there and was only there on suspicion not convicted. Butch Maury Travis, Butch. Very difficult to find much on him. I found the story of the mother's lawsuit. She claims he was left alone for an hour. He did confess. The police had one video of him torturing one of his victims in his "dungeon." No doubt about his guilt. He was supposedly under suicide watch. Maybe I am naive but I don't understand how someone ties their hands behind their back and hangs himself. No idea whatever became of the mother's lawsuit. No video camera mentioned. At Gitmo the cells were observed every ten minutes. Makes no sense.

kdsub -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 3:46:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince I believe his name was Maury Travis His mother tried to sue the jail because he was found hanged with his hands tied behind his back...even though he was monitored...a guard checked him every 15 minutes and another inmate across from his cell was also asked to watch over him... Evidently there was a blind spot in his cell where he committed suicide... The guy was an animal there are videos you can look at he took of killing the girls. There is no reason for the guards to hang him he just got there and was only there on suspicion not convicted. Butch Maury Travis, Butch. Very difficult to find much on him. I found the story of the mother's lawsuit. She claims he was left alone for an hour. He did confess. The police had one video of him torturing one of his victims in his "dungeon." No doubt about his guilt. He was supposedly under suicide watch. Maybe I am naive but I don't understand how someone ties their hands behind their back and hangs himself. No idea whatever became of the mother's lawsuit. No video camera mentioned. At Gitmo the cells were observed every ten minutes. Makes no sense. I couldn’t find information on the video surveillance either but I remember it on TV...and wasn't her story that it was 45 minutes... and that there was a blind spot. To me a blind spot would mean from a video cam not a walking patrol. There must be away to tie hands behind the back...I really see no reason for these guards or the other inmate to lie…I believe he was there for 3 days when he did it. Part of the story was there was no history of suicides in this facility…I believe it was pretty new though. I tried to get the info from the St Louis Post Dispatch but they want you to pay for it…I’m cheap. But there is no doubt he was under suicide watch…a guard was supposed to check every 15 minutes, I’m not sure if the jail said it was 45 or they were accused, The inmate was also to watch him…Yet he ripped his sheets…. tied them to a vent…. slipped his head in a noose…then tied his own hands behind his back… then hanged himself…sounds familiar to me. I think it would be possible to make a slipknot for the last hand. I guess he wanted to make sure he did not chicken out. In his note didn’t he say nothing about a confession? Just that he did not want to spend the rest of his life in jail. There is only one video on the net I could find but the police found many…what an ass...I hope he suffered like those girls did. Butch

vincentML -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 8:10:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Vince I believe his name was Maury Travis His mother tried to sue the jail because he was found hanged with his hands tied behind his back...even though he was monitored...a guard checked him every 15 minutes and another inmate across from his cell was also asked to watch over him... Evidently there was a blind spot in his cell where he committed suicide... The guy was an animal there are videos you can look at he took of killing the girls. There is no reason for the guards to hang him he just got there and was only there on suspicion not convicted. Butch quote: vincentML: Maury Travis, Butch. Very difficult to find much on him. I found the story of the mother's lawsuit. She claims he was left alone for an hour. He did confess. The police had one video of him torturing one of his victims in his "dungeon." No doubt about his guilt. He was supposedly under suicide watch. Maybe I am naive but I don't understand how someone ties their hands behind their back and hangs himself. No idea whatever became of the mother's lawsuit. No video camera mentioned. ETA: yes, maybe a video camera. At Gitmo the cells were observed every ten minutes plus video. Makes no sense. quote: I couldn’t find information on the video surveillance either but I remember it on TV...and wasn't her story that it was 45 minutes... and that there was a blind spot. To me a blind spot would mean from a video cam not a walking patrol. okay 45 minutes or one hour i wont quibble. quote: There must be away to tie hands behind the back...I really see no reason for these guards or the other inmate to lie…I believe he was there for 3 days when he did it. Guards: revulsion, anger, revenge, frontier justice, save the State cost of imprisonment Other inmate: threats from the guards quote: I tried to get the info from the St Louis Post Dispatch but they want you to pay for it…I’m cheap. me too [:D] quote: But there is no doubt he was under suicide watch…a guard was supposed to check every 15 minutes, I’m not sure if the jail said it was 45 or they were accused, The inmate was also to watch him…Yet he ripped his sheets…. tied them to a vent…. slipped his head in a noose…then tied his own hands behind his back… then hanged himself…sounds familiar to me. I think it would be possible to make a slipknot for the last hand. I guess he wanted to make sure he did not chicken out. Familiar to you, far fetched to me. Black man confessed to brutal crimes the moment police came aknocking. Very conceivable he was "assisted." A Dr. Korvorkian special. No confessions. No suicide notes at gitmo. quote: In his note didn’t he say nothing about a confession? Just that he did not want to spend the rest of his life in jail. Allegedly an apology to his mother. quote: There is only one video on the net I could find but the police found many…what an ass...I hope he suffered like those girls did. You made my point, Butch. Those are your feelings 8 years later. Can you imagine the feelings of the guards in the moment?

kdsub -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 8:17:52 PM)
I found some more information on Maury Travis suicide...it is becoming almost a duplicate of the Gitmo alleged suicides. He was found according to some reports with a pillowcase over is face…toilet paper in his nostrils…a washcloth in his mouth…and his hands tied behind his back…How ironic is this! From what I could find the lawsuit went nowhere the suicide note was in his handwriting and it was determined his extensive knowledge of bondage enabled him to hang himself…but this is from one source and may not be correct. It posted links to the Post article but the link is dead after 8 years. By the way in at least three articles I found he did not confess before his suicide. In any case I am not against an extensive investigation of the suicides...I've said that before...but I just wanted to point out an example that these suicides like described are possible. We have beat this to death I'm afraid but thanks for the talk. Butch

vincentML -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 8:57:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I found some more information on Maury Travis suicide...it is becoming almost a duplicate of the Gitmo alleged suicides. He was found according to some reports with a pillowcase over is face…toilet paper in his nostrils…a washcloth in his mouth…and his hands tied behind his back…How ironic is this! From what I could find the lawsuit went nowhere the suicide note was in his handwriting and it was determined his extensive knowledge of bondage enabled him to hang himself…but this is from one source and may not be correct. It posted links to the Post article but the link is dead after 8 years. By the way in at least three articles I found he did not confess before his suicide. In any case I am not against an extensive investigation of the suicides...I've said that before...but I just wanted to point out an example that these suicides like described are possible. We have beat this to death I'm afraid but thanks for the talk. Butch Agree.... [sm=beatdeadhorse.gif][sm=diethreaddie.gif]

blacksword404 -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 10:24:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub These sound like real smart people...Can't you just hear these well trained intelligent CIA interrogators...lets make it look like suicide by binding their hands and feet and stuffing rags down their throats...yea right...would you be that stupid? Look up the example I posted above… he tore his sheets…he tied them to a vent…he tied his own hands…and he hung himself…it can be and has been done. To me it sounds like a suicide pact to try and incriminate Gitmo to the world…These are fanatics who believe paradise is waiting for them...A lot better then being kept in a cage…It seems to of worked. Butch Then maybe it is possible. But like you said the guys knowledge of bondage is what made him able to do it. How likely is it that those three were as skilled?

Brain -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/25/2010 10:44:40 PM)
My opinion is, it's true what they say that "You can't fight city hall." Obama has plenty of manure for the White House lawn. They do whatever they fucking want, like the recent Supreme Court decision overturning 100 years of law. And the right complained liberal judges were legislating from the bench, what bullshiters.

rulemylife -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/26/2010 5:29:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I found some more information on Maury Travis suicide...it is becoming almost a duplicate of the Gitmo alleged suicides. He was found according to some reports with a pillowcase over is face…toilet paper in his nostrils…a washcloth in his mouth…and his hands tied behind his back…How ironic is this! How much of a stretch is this to believe? He stuffed a rag into his own mouth and put toilet paper in his nose, so at this point he was already unable to breathe. He then put a pillowcase over his head so could not see. Then while not being able to breathe or see he somehow managed to tie his own hands behind his back, a pretty impossible feat even when you can see and breathe. He then managed to hang himself without being able to see, breathe, or use his hands. Yeah, undoubtedly a suicide. [8\|]

kdsub -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/26/2010 9:45:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub These sound like real smart people...Can't you just hear these well trained intelligent CIA interrogators...lets make it look like suicide by binding their hands and feet and stuffing rags down their throats...yea right...would you be that stupid? Look up the example I posted above… he tore his sheets…he tied them to a vent…he tied his own hands…and he hung himself…it can be and has been done. To me it sounds like a suicide pact to try and incriminate Gitmo to the world…These are fanatics who believe paradise is waiting for them...A lot better then being kept in a cage…It seems to of worked. Butch Then maybe it is possible. But like you said the guys knowledge of bondage is what made him able to do it. How likely is it that those three were as skilled? Well bondage is not my thing but I could do it with a little forethought...not hard to tear a sheet in strips... not hard to tie my feet together with a strip...not hard to double a strip formed in a noose around my neck tied to a bar or vent… not hard to tie one wrist then make a close slipknot for the other wrist….not hard to put a piece of sheet in my mouth… not hard to pull a pillowcase over my head …then finally slip my free wrist into the slipknot and pull tight… then either fall off commode or just let my weight fall to the floor. If I prepared it would take only a few minutes…far less then ten minutes. BUT I would have to be fanatically crazy…and I’m not sure these inmates were so there is plenty of reason for more investigation…but just don’t say it is not possible. Butch

vincentML -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/26/2010 11:41:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: ORIGINAL: blacksword404 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub These sound like real smart people...Can't you just hear these well trained intelligent CIA interrogators...lets make it look like suicide by binding their hands and feet and stuffing rags down their throats...yea right...would you be that stupid? Look up the example I posted above… he tore his sheets…he tied them to a vent…he tied his own hands…and he hung himself…it can be and has been done. To me it sounds like a suicide pact to try and incriminate Gitmo to the world…These are fanatics who believe paradise is waiting for them...A lot better then being kept in a cage…It seems to of worked. Butch Then maybe it is possible. But like you said the guys knowledge of bondage is what made him able to do it. How likely is it that those three were as skilled? Well bondage is not my thing but I could do it with a little forethought...not hard to tear a sheet in strips... not hard to tie my feet together with a strip...not hard to double a strip formed in a noose around my neck tied to a bar or vent… not hard to tie one wrist then make a close slipknot for the other wrist….not hard to put a piece of sheet in my mouth… not hard to pull a pillowcase over my head …then finally slip my free wrist into the slipknot and pull tight… then either fall off commode or just let my weight fall to the floor. If I prepared it would take only a few minutes…far less then ten minutes. BUT I would have to be fanatically crazy…and I’m not sure these inmates were so there is plenty of reason for more investigation…but just don’t say it is not possible. Butch Great youtube upload, Butch. I know you are not able but maybe you can give instructions to a friend (?) Oh crap, snuff films are not allowed.

kdsub -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/26/2010 12:01:55 PM)
Sorry I can't do it just yet I've a run in my hose. Butch

vincentML -> RE: Magazine raises questions over 3 detainee deaths (1/26/2010 1:39:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Sorry I can't do it just yet I've a run in my hose. Butch [;)][;)][;)][;)][;)]

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