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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 6:31:00 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Honor, responsibility and dignity are concepts that should be universal.

How those concepts are defined  however can vary greatly from person to person. Everyone rationalizes their actions.

It is honorable to betray a friend?  What if that friend was about to commit a crime? Does the seriousness of the offense matter? Who decides the seriousness?

Is it responsible to divorce a spouse and and live separately from your children?

Is there dignity in submission? What if we add humiliation? How many non- kinky folks would say yes? Is there dignity in an anteater avatar?...:)

Jeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 7:30:06 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn


It is not about kinky men protecting weak, fragile girls.  It is about the highest level of respect for the power one holds.  And a Dominant holds power the average person does not.  He holds the power over another's mental health and well-being.
That's where you're incorrect. There are plenty of situations where a non-kinky person holds the power over another's mental health and well being. You need to think beyond your own religious and cultural views. There are branches of Christianity within our own country that believe that women are subserviant to men.

Actually, the power that you're talking about is basically parenting and I'd venture to guess that bad parenting has a much larger impact on the world than bad "domming".

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn
If a Dominant is very selfish and emotionally abusive to a sub who doesn't know any better?  It can be damaging.
Change the "Dominant" to husband and change the word "sub" to wife and re-read that sentence.

Here's the bottom line: you somehow expect D/s BDSM to be something different other than a slice of society. Just because you're kinky doesn't mean there's an oath at the door way.

I'll be honest: most of the "horror stories" I've in my almost 20 years doing wiitwd came from people that over-romanticized D/s BDSM and didn't use their common sense when getting involved with someone. In fact it was that very notion that "D" types have to have some code of honor instead of being realistic and realizing that he's just a guy.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 1/21/2010 7:53:06 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 8:26:27 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Some of you guys would make good lawyers! always look at the case notes so you can analyze before you go into court. Perhaps we should remember that this isn't a court and we really don't need to read the case notes. This is about answering a post and joining in with an opinion surely? What this is not about is devaluing the op and his submissive.
ItsAProcess started a post and asked questions. What he didn't ask was for his and his submissive relationship to be diagnosed

I am not sure why you felt the need to point out that the ops sub has a romanticized view that obviously works for them (your words) but you don't subscribe to it? Surely if it works for them then nothing else matters?


I based my comments on her earlier post on the thread - not on what her profile contained, and no devaluation of their relationship is intended.  However, I disagree with what both put forth here on the thread.  The reason I mentioned her age - is really to support your argument that age means very little, and experience is more important. Others were pointing out that the OP is 'only' 23 - and that it would be interesting to see where he was in 10 years.  When his sub is older, and still holds the same view - invaliding the age issue, I think. 

I believe that when the OP talks about honor, responsibility and dignity those are all concepts which should be applied universally - it would be a better world if everyone took more personal responsibility.  I do not believe that a dominant needs to be particularly MORE responsible, honorable or dignified than any other man.  I think the responsibilities inherent within a vanilla relationship are just as important and weighty as the responsibilities a dominant takes on within a d/s relationship. And I believe the romanticism lies in believing differently, as both the OP and his submissive's posts indicate.  It's the 'more than' attitude which rubs me the wrong way.  I've read enough boards and spoken to enough people to know that at times when there are issues in a relationship it can boil down to the submissive holding the dominant to a higher standard than that of 'man'.  When in fact, he is 'man'.  Some better, some worse, but the kinkiness level not making much difference in that distinction. 


< Message edited by mc1234 -- 1/21/2010 9:03:04 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 8:43:05 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		it has been this slave's experience that honor, responsibility and dignity are not exclusively or necessarily pillars of "dominance"...it could be argued that they may be pillars of self-confidence, personal success or a specific code of conduct, but the statements you make certainly don't apply ONLY to dominants.

the following, excerpted from your rant, seems to this slave to apply to both sides of the kneel:
quote:

...being someone of integrity, someone with the courage to stand up and demand more of him or herself than is easy or popular. It means taking responsibility for your mistakes, it means admitting your faults, it means keeping your word. Honor means putting what is Right before what is Convienent. Honor means holding to a strict code of personal ethics. A code that does not allow much leeway in the way of actions...


quote:

...doing what needs to be done, not because it brings rewards, not because it offers comfort, not because it gains you respect. Responsibility means doing what needs to be done because to do otherwise is to bring harm upon yourself and others. Because to do otherwise is to be a less-than-productive member of society. Because to do otherwise is to be a drain upon those who are close to you.

Responsibility means owning up to your faults. It means admitting when you are less than perfect, it means accepting your mistakes. It also means stiriving to repair what damage you have done through inappropriate actions, thoughts, words or attitudes. Responsibility means doing your best to be valuabe and reliable...


quote:

...comporting yourself in a fashion that is neither embarressing nor inappropriate to the situation at hand. It means having pride in your accomplishments and yourself. Dignity means having respect for yourself....Don't throw temper tantrums, don't be overly judgemental, don't be greedy and selfish. Do your best not to be lazy. None of these things lend towards coming off reliably or with dignity.

(in reply to ItsAProcess)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 8:47:12 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		edited

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 1/21/2010 8:49:08 AM >

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 8:48:37 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn


Here's the bottom line: you somehow expect D/s BDSM to be something different other than a slice of society. Just because you're kinky doesn't mean there's an oath at the door way.

I'll be honest: most of the "horror stories" I've in my almost 20 years doing wiitwd came from people that over-romanticized D/s BDSM and didn't use their common sense when getting involved with someone. In fact it was that very notion that "D" types have to have some code of honor instead of being realistic and realizing that he's just a guy.


Here is where I agree strongly. I am becoming very impatient with people who expect BDSM'ers to have a higher moral code or ethics than anyone else.

I mean, really, that is over romanticizing to the nth degree.

I think it is very noble and sweet that the OP and his girl feel this way. I am not ageist at all, in fact, my most intense D/s experience was spent with someone who found the lifestyle at 23 when I met him when I was older.

I think this overall assumption is dangerous. I, too, know abused women in VANILLA relationships and virtually no one who has been abused in a BDSM one (other than what I read here sometimes).

It is arrogant to come into a kink site and make these pronouncements. It is your perogative of course to post what you will; but in doing so you get push back simply because moral codes of ethics and behaviors are individual decisions.

I hope it all works out the for OP and Evelyn, they sound very cute together and the OP sounds like a bright young man.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 8:52:45 AM   
GYPSYMAMBO


Posts: 660
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ItsAProcess

It's my personal experience.

Therfore it is YOUR personal response with your assumed statistics from a small group on a dot on a map of the globe in your tiny world..
It is your OPINION and NOT A FACT.
 
HONOR,RESPONSIBILITY and DIGNITY are qualities and values that it would be indeed wonderful to see EVERYWHERE..
 
 
GM

_____________________________

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(in reply to ItsAProcess)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 9:06:19 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Honor, responsibility and dignity are concepts that should be universal.

How those concepts are defined  however can vary greatly from person to person. Everyone rationalizes their actions.

It is honorable to betray a friend?  What if that friend was about to commit a crime? Does the seriousness of the offense matter? Who decides the seriousness?

Is it responsible to divorce a spouse and and live separately from your children?

Is there dignity in submission? What if we add humiliation? How many non- kinky folks would say yes? Is there dignity in an anteater avatar?...:)

Jeff


Ward ya done good.

The OP is just a bit immature and a lot full of himself. Once he realizes the world is not black and white and that he does not have all of the answers, he will probably be a pretty decent dominant/master. It is even very likely is is a better one than 50% of those twice his age. It's just sad that he is coming across as a rather pompous know it all with some boring black and white ideas.

Just because a person, male or female, is the leader in a dominant relationship makes the qualities described no more necessary than any other human being on the planet.

I would like to think most teachers should have them, as with doctors, parents, police officers, judges, etc etc etc etc..........basically it makes for a good human being. Not just a dominant or master/mistress.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 9:16:16 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPSYMAMBO

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItsAProcess

It's my personal experience.

Therfore it is YOUR personal response with your assumed statistics from a small group on a dot on a map of the globe in your tiny world..
It is your OPINION and NOT A FACT.
 
HONOR,RESPONSIBILITY and DIGNITY are qualities and values that it would be indeed wonderful to see EVERYWHERE..
 
 
GM

Completely agreed.  Actually, I happen to think it is rather reckless to start spouting any type of hypothesis (such as the 7/10 of submissives, yadda, yadda) and present it without having statistical information to back it up.  There is no factual basis on which to confirm the opinion, unless you know of some study done somewhere that has some kind of scentific data to do so.

If what you wrote, OP, is working in the dynamic that you have with your submissive, more power to you.  I can absolutely promise you that I've been doing this for some time, and I really don't need an ethics lesson from you.  Mine are pretty damn high and I've had them in place longer than you've been on the planet, much less involved in wiitwd.  That has nothing to do with Me being a Dominant.  It has to do with Me attempting to be the best human being that I can attempt to be.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to GYPSYMAMBO)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 9:19:45 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Dominance doesn't have anything to do with honor or integrity.  Dominance has to do with dominating others.  There have been plenty of "true doms" throughout history who have been major SOB's.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 9:25:14 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Some of you guys would make good lawyers! always look at the case notes so you can analyze before you go into court. Perhaps we should remember that this isn't a court and we really don't need to read the case notes. This is about answering a post and joining in with an opinion surely? What this is not about is devaluing the op and his submissive.
ItsAProcess started a post and asked questions. What he didn't ask was for his and his submissive relationship to be diagnosed

I am not sure why you felt the need to point out that the ops sub has a romanticized view that obviously works for them (your words) but you don't subscribe to it? Surely if it works for them then nothing else matters?


I based my comments on her earlier post on the thread - not on what her profile contained, and no devaluation of their relationship is intended.  However, I disagree with what both put forth here on the thread.  The reason I mentioned her age - is really to support your argument that age means very little, and experience is more important. Others were pointing out that the OP is 'only' 23 - and that it would be interesting to see where he was in 10 years.  When his sub is older, and still holds the same view - invaliding the age issue, I think. 

I believe that when the OP talks about honor, responsibility and dignity those are all concepts which should be applied universally - it would be a better world if everyone took more personal responsibility.  I do not believe that a dominant needs to be particularly MORE responsible, honorable or dignified than any other man.  I think the responsibilities inherent within a vanilla relationship are just as important and weighty as the responsibilities a dominant takes on within a d/s relationship. And I believe the romanticism lies in believing differently, as both the OP and his submissive's posts indicate.  It's the 'more than' attitude which rubs me the wrong way.  I've read enough boards and spoken to enough people to know that at times when there are issues in a relationship it can boil down to the submissive holding the dominant to a higher standard than that of 'man'.  When in fact, he is 'man'.  Some better, some worse, but the kinkiness level not making much difference in that distinction. 



mc thanks for clarifying that and now I understand where your coming from.



Maria


_____________________________

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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to mc1234)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 9:27:25 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

But I believe that as a Dominant one must hold themselves to a standard higher than the common man/woman.


Ooooh....

* sits next to sexyred1 & steals some of her popcorn*

- LA


DOMS are so much better and higher compared to average Vanilla Village commoners, Gasp.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 9:47:08 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		ItsAProcess,

You seem to have some deep seated anomosity issues in regards to humanity, and it reflects in the use of your words. While it might not be your intention to be a braggart, you most certainly have come off rather condescending. At least to the target audience of this message board. It appears you have some anomosity in general towards society and that perhaps leaders or those in position of power have failed you and others close to you in the past.

Anomosity can and will impair your ability to see, or rather not see things. It simply becomes a pretty pair of hateful eye glasses you see the world in. You'll only take those glasses off when in the company of a select trusted few that you love and care about. It's a shame you know.



< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 1/21/2010 9:53:36 AM >

(in reply to ItsAProcess)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 9:49:33 AM   
mc1234


Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

mc thanks for clarifying that and now I understand where your coming from.


Maria, you're welcome! 

Lisa

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 10:23:32 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn


It is not about kinky men protecting weak, fragile girls. It is about the highest level of respect for the power one holds. And a Dominant holds power the average person does not. He holds the power over another's mental health and well-being.
That's where you're incorrect. There are plenty of situations where a non-kinky person holds the power over another's mental health and well being. You need to think beyond your own religious and cultural views. There are branches of Christianity within our own country that believe that women are subserviant to men.

Actually, the power that you're talking about is basically parenting and I'd venture to guess that bad parenting has a much larger impact on the world than bad "domming".

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn
If a Dominant is very selfish and emotionally abusive to a sub who doesn't know any better? It can be damaging.
Change the "Dominant" to husband and change the word "sub" to wife and re-read that sentence.

Here's the bottom line: you somehow expect D/s BDSM to be something different other than a slice of society. Just because you're kinky doesn't mean there's an oath at the door way.

I'll be honest: most of the "horror stories" I've in my almost 20 years doing wiitwd came from people that over-romanticized D/s BDSM and didn't use their common sense when getting involved with someone. In fact it was that very notion that "D" types have to have some code of honor instead of being realistic and realizing that he's just a guy.


The most valuable thing I learned early on in these forums is that I need not check my common sense at the door just because I am a submissive. That the person I may meet is a person first and a dominant second and that this is no different than vanilla dating just because you wear a submissive label.

That was very valuable indeed to prevention of being treated like toss away garbage. To value myself and not listen to those spouting how I should behave as a submissive.

_____________________________

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Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
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(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 10:52:44 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Firstly OP welcome, you will get used to it around here, I think you have to remember in any situation but especially written communication be very careful about what you say because it can and will be picked apart and held in evidence. I do not think you had bad intentions here, which is actually reflected in the responses that you got (generally)

However generalisations are rarely a good idea, I am in your age bracket so my opinion counts as much as yours does and I would not say it is one in seven with bad experiences in the way that you mean it, sure I can find you loads of submissives who have had shitty break ups but then most human being have.

One thing that I think is important is to not hold d/s on a pedestal above the rest of the world, its a different way of relating yes but it doesn't stop the participants from being the same types of people you find in any other relationship structure. I think the world would be a better place if we all respected each other more, if we all acted with dignity and if we all took responsibility for our actions. Though I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that dominants should be all those things, but not really more so than anyone else.

_____________________________

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 11:33:34 AM   
HisEvelyn


Posts: 252
Joined: 1/21/2010
Status: offline 		I just want to thank everyone for responding with their opinions and thoughts on this matter.  I joined this community with the hopes of learning more about the lifestyle and the people within it, and I am very much doing that.  I am relatively new to the lifestyle, and perhaps I do romanticize it somewhat.  I'm still new enough that it all seems very mysterious and powerful. :)

I do still support my Master on his views, however, though I do very much see the point that it should not only be Dominants who are held to such a standard.  I too agree that everyone should be held to such a standard, and so does he.  I think my Master simply wished to highlight Dominants in particular.

I personally am made to feel very safe in my Master's care.  I know he comes off as very jaded or arrogant, but he has a big heart and just is frustrated by the painful experiences he hears about from people.  I have had many painful experiences in vanilla encounters, so I know very well that it is not limited to this sort of relationship.

It scares me when I come to this site and randomly flick through profiles just to learn about the people, only to read ads from a man saying he wants a submissive in especially degrading ways.  For example, one profile I came across (I will not reveal names, just out of politeness) stated that he wants to just sit back in his lazyboy with a beer, and put a plate of nachos on the girl's head while she sucks him off.  And when she is done, she has to simply 'get the f*ck out'.  I try very hard to be open-minded and understand that a lot of things work for other people that do not work for me.  But things like that are very frightening to me, because to me it seems to project a complete lack of any respect or caring towards the submissive.

If this sort of dynamic works for someone?  I will not judge them for it.  But it does make me grateful for my own Master, for while he can be very kinky and rough with me?  At the end of the day, it is very important to him to make sure I know I am cherished and cared for.  That my submission is appreciated and not taken for granted.

But again, thank you all for giving me different angles to look at this with!

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 11:42:48 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

But things like that are very frightening to me, because to me it seems to project a complete lack of any respect or caring towards the submissive.


You make the above comment, and then say:

quote:


If this sort of dynamic works for someone?  I will not judge them for it.


But you have already judged them in the first statement by saying it seems to project a complete lack of any respect or caring towards the submissive. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with judging, but don't you you don't do something, when in fact you do it.

The original OP came off as very self serving by showing everyone how great he is with what he does.

Enough for now, I have some nachos to eat and a blow job to get from my female property.



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to HisEvelyn)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 11:42:55 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Sweetie?.... mind if I call you sweetie?...lol... ok skip it.

If what you are doing works for you, i will be the first to tell you that you are doing it right.

But you  thinking that the way some one else does it is disrespectful is not so right.

You know only how you wish to be treated, not how others wish to be treated.  We are not all special and warm and fuzzy.Many of us are rat fucking bastards.

Some submissives enjoy that.

Jeff



_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to HisEvelyn)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 11:47:16 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Enough for now, I have some nachos to eat and a blow job to get from my female property.





That sounds warm and fuzzy!


Jeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 60
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