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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 3:07:08 PM   
Jeffff


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"Smore talk".. this is all June's fault


Ward

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 3:20:38 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

I have no idea what a smore is. I'm assuming this is an American reference, cause y'all seem to understand each other...

Is it something worth googling?



A s'more is a graham cracker with a piece of Hershey's chocolate on top, then a nice fresh from the fire toasted marshmallow, then another graham cracker to make an gooey mess that is delicious while sitting around the campfire. 



Thankyou :D

I'm not too sure about the Hershey's (to English people it tastes sort of soapy...) but I know the concept, and fully appreciate the deliciousness!


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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 4:23:45 PM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItsAProcess

Sometimes, I don't really understand what is going through the head of so many 'Doms'. There seems to be this pervasive and evergrowing attitude that to be dominant means taking advantage of a submissive as much as you can and then tossing her by the wayside once she catches on to your shenanigans.

Frankly, I'm tired of it.


Well that's them told, phew! I was hoping someone would stand up and give those fuckers a good old telling off!

I'm sorry that you feel this way - I don't think it's either pervasive or ever-growing, since the dawn of time there have been users/abusers who prey on the vulnerable - and yes, sites like Collarme do attract a disproportionate number of them but I don't think you can make statements like these without seeming a little foolish.

quote:


So, much to the annoyance of many, no doubt, you all get to be witness to my personal little rant on what I like to consider the three Pillars of Dominance.


When ever I read a line like this I think "fuck - I'm about to be annoyed"


quote:




Honor.

Honor. A word from ages past. A concept and ideal that has spanned thousands upon thousands of years. You can find words meaning and carrying the same inflection in nearly every language upon this planet. I dare you to find me a society in the history of humanity where Honor of some sort or another was not vitally important.

This simply isn't true at all. "Honour" in the context of the judao-christian tradition is profoundly different to that found in the middle-eastern and far-eastern traditions. Yes there are similarities but no, you're just plain wrong on this one.
quote:


I'll save you the time, you really won't be able to do that. Why? Because it is one of the founding principles of society.

Some people might interpret this as arrogance, when combined with the erroroneous assumption that honour is one of the founding principles of society.No, honour isn't one of the founding principles of society - co-operation is.
quote:


The word itself can mean many things. Honesty, Reliability, Following specific protocols of interaction. Generally? I like to think of having Honor as being someone of integrity, someone with the courage to stand up and demand more of him or herself than is easy or popular. It means taking responsibility for your mistakes, it means admitting your faults, it means keeping your word. Honor means putting what is Right before what is Convienent. Honor means holding to a strict code of personal ethics. A code that does not allow much leeway in the way of actions.

Admitting that the word can mean many things does deflate your thesis a bit.


quote:


Think back with me for a moment, and consider the sorts of people in human history to whom honor is most commonly ascribed as critically important. What sort of person comes to mind first when you think of the word Honor? For me it just happens to be a Knight. A man of strength, a man respected, a man who is honored and given reknown for his deeds and his dedication to a calling higher than himself. Greater than his desires and larger than his purse, his loins, or his comfort. Oft times given great power, because a Knight was supposed to be Honorable that power was given in the trust that he would use that power, that authority for what is good, not for personal gain.

I confess that, as a student of history my knee jerk reaction was "Do you have any frikken idea what "knights" used to actually do???" The "Knights" you talk of were rapists and robbers by and large. The romanticised definition you have of the knight and chivalry is an 18th Century invention by opium soaked romantic poets.
quote:



A real Dominant should strive to be similar. Be Honorable, or find a different lifestyle.


I would advise against don't go telling people to find a different lifestyle if they don't meet your over romanticised definition of honour, there is a danger you might be seen as a pompous ass (which I'm sure you're not).
quote:



Responsibility.

Ah yes. Responsibility. The word so commonly ground into our childlike minds as we grow and learn. The word upon which much of our society is now, supposedly, based. Be responsible and do your homework. Be responsible and support your family. Be responsible and finish your chores. Be responsible and maintain the car. But responsibility is more than this. Responsibility is more than fulfilling a grouping of actions and tasks which most, or many folks consider to be vitally important.

Responsibility means doing what needs to be done, not because it brings rewards, not because it offers comfort, not because it gains you respect. Responsibility means doing what needs to be done because to do otherwise is to bring harm upon yourself and others. Because to do otherwise is to be a less-than-productive member of society. Because to do otherwise is to be a drain upon those who are close to you.

Responsibility means owning up to your faults. It means admitting when you are less than perfect, it means accepting your mistakes. It also means stiriving to repair what damage you have done through inappropriate actions, thoughts, words or attitudes. Responsibility means doing your best to be valuabe and reliable.


To be fair, not a bad take on responsibility I spose.
quote:


Be responsible, or be something besides a Dominant.

Again, when I read things like this, I have to say my immediate response is to shout "Who the fuck made you chief dom definer"
quote:


Dignity.

Oh boy, here is the one where most folks are going to call me a crackpot. But perhaps I'm just old fashioned. Dignity means comporting yourself in a fashion that is neither embarressing nor inappropriate to the situation at hand. It means having pride in your accomplishments and yourself. Dignity means having respect for yourself. Having respect for yourself, of course, has various meanings as well. Lets address some of them, shall we?

Firstly. Don't be a braggart. Sure, we all find them amusing from time to time. And yes, a good, healthy bit of confidense is an attractive feature to most folks. But when you tend to go on and on about how incredibly awesome you are, how you never fail, make mistakes, or are just generally better than the rest of us poor, less-blessed human animals? People get very, very tired of being anywhere near you. Even the people who call you friend are most likely rolling their eyes when your back is turned. Being a braggart causes others to lose respect for you. I dare you to find a submissive who will gladly and happily submit to someone they don't respect.

That wasn't very easy, was it? I didn't think so.

Secondly? Take care of yourself. That means, yes, bathing regularly. Dressing appropriately when venturing out of your personal abode, and attempting to take care of your health. I ask you, how are you going to Dom your submissive if you're too busy being locked on the couch because you're out of energy due to being overweight/sick/fucking lazy (hint, the last is the worst.) Secondly, and this might be offensive. but for god's sake. Try to get some physical activity in. It's not very fun for the submissive if she's feeling squished when you're ontop of her, now is it? I really wouldn't think so.


This is a pretty hard-core definition of dignity - Mother Theresa wouldn't have passed your dignity test
quote:


Thirdly, and lastly, but definately not least. Don't act like a child. Yes, this means being an adult. Is that really so hard to do? Don't throw temper tantrums, don't be overly judgemental, don't be greedy and selfish. Do your best not to be lazy. None of these things lend towards coming off reliably or with dignity. And dignity is definately important for a Dominant.


Now, just to make it clear, all of this doesn't mean you have to be some perfect manly man robot all the time. But do try to remember that you hold a position of respect and power. Comport yourself like you are someone worth respecting, it'll take you far.





Sigh... Where to start.

Fair play to you for speaking up with such confidence, although I'd sincerely advise you to temper it with a little more humility next time (perhaps you could add "humility " to your personal dignity tick-list.

I'd also say that none of these characteristics are any more germaine to or desirable within the context of BDSM than they are to any other - I would sincerely hope that honour, responsibility and dignity formed part of everyone's life.

I disagree strongly that any of these things are "more necesary" within the context of D/s. As a parent - I have a pretty bloody hardcore standard of responsibility to meet.

Having given you a hard time for your post, I'll close with the thought that - if these are your values and you can consistently live by them , then I salute you - they're as good a moral/life compass as you'll find - But I don't think they're necesarily tied to D/s - if you have these values, sure I'd say you're likely to be a better, more thoughtful, compassionate, empathetic Dom - You're also likely to be a more thoughtful, compassionate and empathetic human being.

Oh... for what it's worth - here's the thing I strive to match up to - If, by Rudyard Kipling - http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm




WHo's this new guy????

Dang you're hawt!!!


What he says.

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(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 4:44:25 PM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

Thank you for your understanding, Tigresse.  I think you described me pretty well there.  And I will always make an attempt to explain myself rather than simply stomping off.  Stomping off doesn't usually solve much of anything. :)

It is definitely a bit overwhelming to see all the various kinks and fetishes and preferences of people on here.  I thought I had a fairly good grasp of it when my Master and I had a long discussion about our limits and desires.  But talking about it with one person, and seeing it in a much broader sense, are two entirely different things.  It is one reason he encouraged me to come on here and get to know people.  To help me learn and broaden my horizons.

I apologize if I have seemed judgmental to anyone by expressing my opinions openly.  It's not my intent.  It's just a whole new world opening up to me, and I'm eager to share my thoughts.  I also admit to being eager to defend my Master's stance on the subject he brought up.  As I know that he is a very good man and a marvelous Master (at least for me and what I need in a Dominant), and I don't like to see people misunderstand his good intentions.

I truly don't recoil in disgust about much of the things I have seen on here.  For me, concerning the things that frighten me?  It is more a matter of my personal experiences.  Before my Master found me, I had experienced other Doms trying to pull me under their control.  And many of them did not have the basic rule of consentuality that is very prevalent here.  They believed that because they were a Dominant and they wanted me?  That they had the right to coerce me and try to force me into doing what they wanted, even if it hurt me and damaged me.  I did not experience the concept of "OK, our styles are different, so we should look elsewhere".

Therefore, when I see an ad like the one I mentioned?  I am not judging in any way the people who truly enjoy and consentually agree to such kinks and practices.  I more think to myself "Oh my god, is that one of the men who would take a new submissive who does not know any better and try to force her into this, even if it kills her inside and breaks her mind?  Because she thinks that if she is going to submit, that this is REQUIRED?" 

I was once there, given a wrong view of Dom/sub relationships.  That as a sub, I had no choice or no right to limits.  And that I strongly disagree with.  As does my Master.  This is primarily what we mean.  When he speaks of Honor and such, he refers to those Dominants who do not say "This is how I want it, and if you don't like it, go away".  Because that is perfectly valid.  He speaks of the Dominants who would manipulate a potential new submissive just starting out, without knowledge and seeking guidance (likely one with issues, as many of us do) and trying to convince her that his way is the ONLY way, so that he can have her.  That if she doesn't submit to everything he wants all the time, she is worthless as a submissive.

I really hope I'm explaining myself a little better.  I'm really trying, and again, I do apologize if I offend anyone, as that is not my intent.


Hi Evelyn, you are doing a great job of explaining yourself, kudos. Regarding your comments on being given a wrong view of Dom/sub relationships....believe me, everyone started out getting information and misinformation.

Listen, I was involved in this at age 16 with someone slightly older who told me all sorts of things. I researched and asked others questions and made my own view.

Hell, when I was in college and came back to NYC for a visit to my first real LIVE BDSM club, the old Hellfire, I met this totally hot, older, dyed in the wool, black leather clad wearing "Dom". He told me his was the only "twue" way. I was interested a bit so I decided to go on a date with him, even though he was slightly arrogant.

We had our first date and when it ended he proceeded to tell me that one thing I must know about being a sub/slave is that they never are allowed to have orgasms, only the Doms could. I asked why. He said, don't question me, girl, just know that I am an expert in D/s.

I started laughing and said, really, well I am not interested any longer dude, because THIS GIRL, has orgasms and any guy who says no, can EAT ME.

You should have seen his face; it was classic.

Moral of the story? Trust your own instincts and never believe anything that anyone says is the truth, if its not YOUR truth.

(in reply to HisEvelyn)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 4:53:25 PM   
HisEvelyn


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Thank you so much for your input, Red.  The story you told is wonderful, and made me giggle!  Good for you!

I didn't end up doing any research on this lifestyle when I was first propositioned by these doms in my past, as the experience I had with them left a rather sour taste in my mouth.  But I did have enough sense of self to tell them that if that was what being a submissive was?  That I didn't want it.  And I dropped them, before getting to any sort of point where I would have been actually damaged.  They never even got their hands on me after telling me what I was 'supposed' to do.

It wasn't until my Master found me and we got to know one another that I first realized that I'd simply met some very bad men in my past.  That was when I started learning more about the specifics.

It is very good to know others have had similar experiences! :)

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 4:56:00 PM   
mc1234


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Joined: 10/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn
It wasn't until my Master found me and we got to know one another that I first realized that I'd simply met some very bad men in my past.  That was when I started learning more about the specifics.



A very sincere question, Evelyn - were they bad men, or were they just not the type of person you wanted to be with?


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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 4:59:19 PM   
HisEvelyn


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!!!  Thank you for catching me on that.  Allow me to rephrase, if I could. :)

They were very bad men for ME and my needs.

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:00:32 PM   
Delphinus


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Well, going back to the original post, which maybe we are all way off of by now, I didn't see anything wrong with it. I read through it quickly, but...I kind of shrugged my shoulders and basically agreed. I saw that the OP is military. My Master is military. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. But either way, BLUF, I didn't see anything to get worked up about.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:16:06 PM   
ItsAProcess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mc1234


quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn
It wasn't until my Master found me and we got to know one another that I first realized that I'd simply met some very bad men in my past.  That was when I started learning more about the specifics.



A very sincere question, Evelyn - were they bad men, or were they just not the type of person you wanted to be with?



My dear, sweet girl doesn't like to cause problems or create arguments. Or to come off as judgemental. But let me tell you, some of those men truely were bad. From the things she's told me. Of course, no-one is all evil or all good. But there can cetainly be directions towards which people lean.

There is a difference between being, say, shy. Or being an asshole.  These things come and go, and they are oft-times forgiveable.
Then there are the twisted, sadistic, evil sons of bitches who need to be castrated.

And yes, I'm well aware some people are going to take offensive at my 'judgemental' attitude, but I stand by my opinion.



< Message edited by ItsAProcess -- 1/21/2010 5:20:23 PM >

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:19:37 PM   
sexyred1


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Oh I believe some of the men were truly BAD. And I believe some were just not her or mine or other's particular type.

Anyway, you are both cool kids and welcome to the jungle!

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:21:54 PM   
ItsAProcess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Oh I believe some of the men were truly BAD. And I believe some were just not her or mine or other's particular type.

Anyway, you are both cool kids and welcome to the jungle!


I'm not sure about the kids, part, but the sentiment is appreciated. I look forward to many more intense and mentally stimulating conversations.

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:29:14 PM   
HisEvelyn


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LOL!  At 31, I'll happily be called a 'kid' by anyone!  Reminds me of how thrilled I was to be carded on my 30th birthday!

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:32:41 PM   
sexyred1


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Evelyn, when I get guessed in my 30's I am totally thrilled. My mom is 76 and she looks 20 years younger. She is annoyed that no one ever believes her when she tries to use her senior citizens discount!!!

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:35:53 PM   
HisEvelyn


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Then prepare to be thrilled. :)  Assuming the picture below your username is you?  I'd guess mid thirties.

Here's to us both aging as well as your mother!

< Message edited by HisEvelyn -- 1/21/2010 5:36:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 5:53:02 PM   
mc1234


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

!!!  Thank you for catching me on that.  Allow me to rephrase, if I could. :)

They were very bad men for ME and my needs.



Oh, sorry - I didn't mean it as a trap for you. lol I'm a little short with my words today. I believe there are bad men out there, without a doubt, and have run into one or two myself - I was really just wondering. I'm glad to hear you are happy now and have found someone who matches you so well.

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 6:01:28 PM   
littlewonder


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Wow that's a heavy burden you carry to feel shame to be called a man because some men in the world are assholes. Yer gonna break your back one day carrying that heavy load!


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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 6:18:59 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn
I more think to myself "Oh my god, is that one of the men who would take a new submissive who does not know any better and try to force her into this, even if it kills her inside and breaks her mind?  Because she thinks that if she is going to submit, that this is REQUIRED?" 
That would be the point when I'd hope that she'd employ some common sense.

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RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 6:58:11 PM   
ItsAProcess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Wow that's a heavy burden you carry to feel shame to be called a man because some men in the world are assholes. Yer gonna break your back one day carrying that heavy load!




Someone has to carry the burden. Somewhere.

I don't resent it.

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 6:58:48 PM   
HisEvelyn


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You would be surprised what a lack of self-esteem, coupled with the desire to please someone, and having that someone tell you this is the ONLY way to please them will make someone who is uncertain about things do.  Especially if there have never been clear boundaries taught to a girl about what is not ok to do to her because of past abuse.

There should always be common sense.  But some people are so damaged that they don't have much of a sense of common sense when it comes to how they deserve to be treated.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Honor, Responsibility, Dignity. - 1/21/2010 7:33:07 PM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

Then prepare to be thrilled. :)  Assuming the picture below your username is you?  I'd guess mid thirties.

Here's to us both aging as well as your mother!


Yep, that's me. Thanks a bunch and I raise a glass to that toast!! Use spf 30!!!

(in reply to HisEvelyn)
Profile   Post #: 120
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