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Knife Play - 2/2/2010 8:34:17 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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***Disclaimer***

This topic may not be suited for everyone.

I thought it might be interesting this morning to talk about knife play. It was something that occurred to Me while I was reading another thread where the topic went to discussing if something was wanted it wasn't really forced and things that aren't real don't appeal to some.

With that, My mind drifted to a very specific area of knife play. More accurately stated as those who really enjoy knives, but not to the extent of being cut. Those who like the cold steel being dragged along the skin, without the skin being opened or any blood being a part of the play.

So, in My head, I was combining these two different thoughts. Some people don't 'play' unless a scene is real. At the same time, there are also folks out there who enjoy knife play, but have a hard limit of cutting or scarification in any way. Then, I thought, for some people, isn't part of the thrill of knife play the very fact that there is some fear based on what isn't real? Isn't part of the fun being afraid of the potential that the top *could* cut them, even though they know the person they are playing with wouldn't intentionally break their hard limit of cutting them?

From the top side, I know this is part of why knife play (without cutting) appeals to Me. I like playing with that kind of fear. Even though the bottom knows that I wouldn't intentionally break their hard limit, there's still that part in them that is afraid because of what I could do. Blade in My hand while they are bound and helpless, with no immediate escape unless I set them free. It's not anything that I even have to vocalize. I know the what if's that are running through their mind. What if I might break their limit? What if they are really in danger? What if I'm not as trustworthy as they led themselves to believe I am?

Of course, at some point, the scene ends. The bottom was never really cut. The threat and the helplessness gone.

So, My question is, was it real, or not?

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 8:40:30 AM

NuevaVida

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It has been a while since I've experienced "playing with knives."

However, I was (intentionally) cut. I did (intentionally bleed). It did (intentionally hurt).

It used to scare the living hell out of me. I would practically hyperventilate. I could feel my heart pounding in my throat. But after awhile, I got used to it. I knew he'd go so far and then stop. I'd lay limp while he did his thing, knowing I'd live through it, knowing I wouldn't be maimed or need stitches, or seriously injured. I neutralized to the appeal.

As for the "was it real or not" question - I can only say if it felt real in the bottom's mind, then it was a real experience for him/her.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 2

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 8:40:32 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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Hello LadyPact
Warm regards.

My answer would depend on whether the knife was sharp or blunt. Some people use a fake knife (or one that has had the blade 'dulled').
If that was the case, then it's not real - unless the bottom/s-type was under the impression that the blade is real, even though the top knows the truth and has switched.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 3

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 9:00:30 AM

Tenire

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Joined: 4/2/2006
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I've played both sides of this gambit (cutting and not) and I believe it's every bit real TO THE BOTTOM . When I look her in the eye with the back of the blade to her throat and tell her that I'd slit her throat but I didn't wanna bloody up Ms.So-and-so's floor and drag that SAFE blade across her neck, she doesn't know it's not real, and just for the moment there's a question. "Did he do it?"

Like you said, Lady Pact, the whole game is with the fear of "could he?" "would he?" And then there's thing like blindfolds that can mindfuck the bottom into actually believing they've been cut.

Heaven forbid, I know a man that swears up and down in his knife play classes that fresh blood tastes like... raspberry syrup? But I'll guarantee you that, in the moment, when that big, burly bottom was screaming his lungs out like a little nilly bitch, and T was dragging that blade down his back, and that red stuff was running, everybody in the room was thinking "Oh dear...T's gone off the deep end" and knowing T, when he stops in the middle of a sentence and goes to LICK IT we're all JUST KNOWING it's blood. It was real enough for the 50 people in that room.

If only in the moment, in your mind, it's still real, and still authentic. However, you have transgressed into another wonderful side of knife play... the mind fuck.

< Message edited by Tenire -- 2/2/2010 9:05:33 AM >

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 4

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 9:07:06 AM

OsideGirl

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From: United States
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This is the way we play. I don't want to be cut, but love feeling the tip of the knife dragged across my skin.

For me the only fear is that I'll move and cause a cut to myself. Beyond the sensation, the biggest part of this is just letting go and trusting him. I love where that puts my head.

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Post #: 5

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 9:09:28 AM

lizi

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Joined: 2/1/2009
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We've used knife play as you described it where the knife was more of a sensory tool or a prop than a cutting instrument. I did feel rather safe knowing that he wouldn't cut me but there is the little niggling in the back of my mind that the cutting can happen. I have gotten scratches unintentionally which brings home the danger once again.
I think he likes it more than I do. To be in control of this weapon and run it over my body. Since he likes it that interest passes over to me then. So at the time I'm not really thinking I'll be cut but I am part of something that is made powerful by his interest in it and my instinctual reaction (rather than intellectual) to a sharp weapon touching my body.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 6

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 9:29:49 AM

littlebitxxx

Posts: 732
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This one enjoys knife play and any kind of "dangerous" edge play. The sensations are wonderful, the "hold still" meaning a razor sharp edge, and she loves the feel of cold steel. she's played with everything from daggers, hunting knives, razors, up to and including huge war axes (they were the razor sharp edges). The only problem is: there is no thrill of fear. If she trusts someone enough that she allows them to bind her while they have a knife in their hand, she trusts them enough to know what to do with it. Sure, there's been accidents, little nicks and scratches, but nothing major.   Heck, even letter openers are dangerous in the hands of incompetents.

The scenes have been real, to her and to the Top....in a way. They were enjoyable but they didn't contain that helplessness or "threat of danger".   Even during a takedown scene: ex-Master managed to get her trussed somewhat, cut off all her clothing then put the knife up close to her eye and said (in a menacing voice) "See what I've got? Now what?"....she pretty much came at that point....but still had no fear. It was Master. she was safe.

Is there any way to overcome this lack of fear?   To actually feel the danger and the helplessness?   Or is the trust one has in her Master so limitless that mindf***s are not possible?

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(in reply to lizi)

Post #: 7

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 9:57:12 AM

RumpusParable

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From: NYC now!
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For all I love cutting play, knife play without cutting is very fun to me... either threatening or gentle, aggressive or playful... I like the variety that can be in it.

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(in reply to littlebitxxx)

Post #: 8

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 10:15:25 AM

allthatjaz

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I have never really thought of knife play as cutting but more of a head fuck or sensual foreplay.
I can watch a good knife player for hours. We have a guy over here by the nick name of Warlock and he really does sensually juggle those knives on a squirming girls back so delightfully that its mesmerizing.

I prefer a well balanced knife with a good handle and a heavy blade. When you hold that hilt with the tips of your fingers and let the point feel like its penetrating the flesh under its own weight.

We also practice suspension bondage with swords and I suppose thats a sort of knife play but much more frightening!

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Post #: 9

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 10:30:55 AM

Tenire

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.... That's just plain hawt.... purrrrrrr

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 10

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 10:39:14 AM

kyraofMists

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Real in what sense? Our perception defines our reality. For me, the fear of knife play isn't in thinking he is going to harm me. The fear comes because I know he is willing to hurt me in ways that I will not like. I also know that mistakes can be made and unintentional things can happen.

A few years ago, he was using a knife on my back. He was just scratching the skin and was making quick back and forth strokes across my back (something he does often and since I mark really easy you can see the evidence for some time). A combination of my movement and his stroke I ended up being cut a little deeply and bleeding quite a bit. At the time, he just said "oops", and kept going. He stopped playing a little while later because the cut wouldn't stop bleeding, we were at a public party and not set up for blood play. It took months to finally heal and any time that area would be hit with something (i.e. flogger) I would feel the sting. I will probably always carry the scar.

That reality is what keeps the fear there for me.... knowing that even though it may not be intended, shit can and does happen. Of course, I don't ever know if he intends to make me bleed or not when we start play. That is its own fear and challenge... being ready for anything.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 11

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 10:39:47 AM

oceangem

Posts: 360
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Mission, BC. Canada
Status: offline

i love knife play, at a play party, my partner and i did a knife scene to say the least, the clothes i arrived in, were all but shredded pieces of material around my feet at the end.

Left with great memories and long, lasting scratches.

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she gives a smile when the pain comes... the pain is gonna make everything alright.

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Post #: 12

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 12:46:43 PM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlebitxxx

This one enjoys knife play and any kind of "dangerous" edge play. The sensations are wonderful, the "hold still" meaning a razor sharp edge, and she loves the feel of cold steel. she's played with everything from daggers, hunting knives, razors, up to and including huge war axes (they were the razor sharp edges). The only problem is: there is no thrill of fear. If she trusts someone enough that she allows them to bind her while they have a knife in their hand, she trusts them enough to know what to do with it. Sure, there's been accidents, little nicks and scratches, but nothing major.   Heck, even letter openers are dangerous in the hands of incompetents.

The scenes have been real, to her and to the Top....in a way. They were enjoyable but they didn't contain that helplessness or "threat of danger".   Even during a takedown scene: ex-Master managed to get her trussed somewhat, cut off all her clothing then put the knife up close to her eye and said (in a menacing voice) "See what I've got? Now what?"....she pretty much came at that point....but still had no fear. It was Master. she was safe.

Is there any way to overcome this lack of fear?   To actually feel the danger and the helplessness?   Or is the trust one has in her Master so limitless that mindf***s are not possible?

Yes. Since I trust him with my life I know that he is not going to cut me, even while I am getting aroused by the feel of the cold metal tracing over my skin I cannot get rid of the realization that with him I am always safe.

Even if he did cut me it would be done in a way that would cause no genuine harm, maybe a faint scar line but nothing more than that.

_____________________________

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Post #: 13

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 12:51:15 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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Was it a real what?

If they have all sorts of doubts that crowd their mind, then their *fear* can be *real* of course. I can certainly understand fucking your own mind with the *potential*......but if I know that it's not, then there would need to be a very real possibility that it'd happen, for me to be afraid and enter that realm of self mind-fuckedness.

If M breaks out a scalpel it's to cut me, if he breaks out a cane, a whip, a stapler, he intends to use them........the fact that he has used them and will, does all those things you mentioned. There has to be the possibility that it can occur.........I couldn't mind fuck myself that way.

The fact that he has done all sorts of hideous things to me, means that I know not only that he could , but he would. So yes, HE could mind-fuck ME. If I knew for certain that it WASN'T going to occur ( ie, being cut) then I'd maybe be nervous that it'd happen accidentally if I jumped or that he might slip. (re.kyra's post) I managed to double brand my own arse from leaping at the wrong moment. When he says *keep still* it really is best to do just that.

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 2/2/2010 12:53:05 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 14

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 1:25:51 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

From the top side, I know this is part of why knife play (without cutting) appeals to Me. I like playing with that kind of fear. Even though the bottom knows that I wouldn't intentionally break their hard limit, there's still that part in them that is afraid because of what I could do. Blade in My hand while they are bound and helpless, with no immediate escape unless I set them free. It's not anything that I even have to vocalize. I know the what if's that are running through their mind. What if I might break their limit? What if they are really in danger? What if I'm not as trustworthy as they led themselves to believe I am?

I love this type of play because, IMO, it's the most real. There's not a lot of risk involved in swinging my riding crop or a flogger. Even if I aim badly and wrap, or strike a little too close to the kidneys or spine, the fact that I have tendonitis and can't strike too hard makes the chances of doing serious damage relatively low.

On the other hand, my daggers are extremely sharp and have been known to "bite" the unwary. Using them requires a greater degree of caution than one might think in order to avoid accidental nicks. So the fear, in this case, is very real because the sub has to trust in both my integrity and my skill. No matter how careful I am, there's still a chance -- albeit a small one -- that she'll move the wrong way or at the wrong time and I won't be able to move the blade in time to keep from cutting her or that my hand will slip and he'll get more than a scratch.

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Post #: 15

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 1:30:14 PM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
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My fear is real. And that is what my Master wants, my fear, not my blood. Therefore, knife play is very real to us. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

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Post #: 16

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 1:36:55 PM

HisSweetElysium

Posts: 600
Joined: 11/12/2009
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Knives don't scare me other than they have the ability to mess up my tattoos, which is a hard limit of mine but I still enjoy it. It's a cool sensation, feeling my clothes cut away, or the knife scratching into me, and it looks really cool. But actual fear? No. I would never play this game with someone who would violate that hard limit, or do me serious harm anyway. Doesn't mean it's not sexxxy though.

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“This is love: to fly toward a secret sky, to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment. First to let go of life. Finally, to take a step without feet.” Rumi

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Post #: 17

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 2:09:21 PM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
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I haven't been cut (it isnt a hard limit but its a limit until the fight person comes along) and the only time that knife play has been a thrill to me is when the potential is there, its the edge of fear that does it, when its all theatrics it just doesn't work so well for me. A bit like the.darkness said regarding bluntness, if they were blunt it would be pants for me.

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Post #: 18

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 4:32:48 PM

afterforever

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From: Belfast, NI
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I have no problem being cut or scarred, but I still feel fear when someone holds a knife to my throat and tells me they want to watch me bleed. But that was with people who genuinely might have cut me, and with the same sharp knives/scalpels/razors that they used to cut me on other occasions.

If I knew there was no chance that they were actually intending to break skin, or they were using a blunt blade, I have no idea whether I'd still be scared or not. Like people have said, accidents can happen regardless I guess. I think if it was with a casual partner they'd have to be incredibly good at the mind-fuck or very physically imposing, I spend enough time in surgery that knives themselves don't really bother me.

For me there has to be either one or the other to make it "real", either being cut (and when the cutting starts I generally stop being scared and go all melty), or genuine fear. So in LP's example, that would be real to me.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 19

RE: Knife Play - 2/2/2010 5:24:14 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I used to play with knives since I was young..way before I ever got into "bdsm"....but it was never about the fear. Knives don't scare me. I actually enjoy being cut and scratched. I would say if it felt real then it's real to that person.

Whatever you believe with feeling becomes your reality.

(in reply to afterforever)

Post #: 20

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