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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:08:09 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
. . . I would even go as far as to say that there must be some grey areas and that some of the sadists that engage in WIITWD might have some sociopathic tendencies.

There are masochists, vanillas and bass fishermen with sociopathic tendencies but, I dare say there is NO special gray area between sadism and sociopathic disorders.

Sadism is defined by what you do and what it does for you. As Kana pointed out so clearly, empathy is a clear and defining line. There is absolutely no room for a gray area.

Everyone has their own blend of crazy… a dash of this, of hint of that . . . and mild sociopathic tendencies can be one of those personally traits but it is totally independent of sadism, even if present in a sadist.


I agree with the bolded portion of you statement. What I was trying to convey is that there are sadists, and there are sociopaths, and there are sadists who are sociopaths but one is not conditional of the other. And within the definition of sociopaths, there are some people who have sociopathic tendencies who might express it in sadism and that is the grey area. Because sadism revolves around the desire to hurt another, it lends itself to sociopathic behaviour. The error is when we counfound the two.

Is that a bit clearer? I'm essentially trying to say the same thing as you but trying to express certain nuances and I'm not quite sure how effective I am at doing that to be honest. So please let me know if I'm still off the mark and I'll try to reword :-)

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/5/2010 10:09:16 PM >

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:13:15 PM   
subtee


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quote:

Because sadism revolves around the desire to hurt another, it lends itself to sociopathic behaviour.


I'm sorry but no. This is not correct. Sadism does not end itself to sociopathic behavior.

Sociopathic behavior is singular and while it may be found within sadism, sadism does not lend itself to sociopathic behavior.

[edited cause I fucked up]

< Message edited by subtee -- 2/5/2010 10:21:39 PM >

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:24:46 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

quote:

Because sadism revolves around the desire to hurt another, it lends itself to sociopathic behaviour.


I'm sorry but no. This is not correct. Sadism does lend itself to sociopathic behavior.

Sociopathic behavior is singular and while it may be found within sadism, sadism does not lend itself to sociopathic behavior.


OK, then I'm still not being clear. I'm refering to the Sadistic Personality Disorder as opposed to sadism in the practice of BDSM. They are two different things, but both refered to as sadism as their common link is to hurt someone. I was trying to explain that because of this common link, that is where much of the confusion that all sadist are sociopaths comes from.

I hope I was clearer this time.

- LA

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:26:11 PM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
[edited cause I fucked up]


Time for a whippin'

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:27:10 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Now I realise that my motivations to be a sadist and others motivations are not the same. I agree with Whiplashsmile4 who writes that while some sadists are sociopaths yet not all all sadists are sociopaths (false). I would even go as far as to say that there must be some grey areas and that some of the sadists that engage in WIITWD might have some sociopathic tendencies. I know one who openly admitted it to me. That said, we can't paint everyone involved in WIITWD with the same brush. Each has their own motivations and personality make-up.

Hope that helps to clarify certain things ;-)

- LA

P.S.: You might find a thread I started last November entitle Torturing the Willing (or the sado/maso contradiction)


Sociopathic tendecies is what the OP was attempting to describe, by using the term "sociopathic urges".

There is a Difference between being a "Sociopath" and having "Sociopathic Tendancies/urges".

Agressive Sociopaths will or occasionally will do sadistic shit like find stray cats/dogs and cut them up, torture or otherwise kill the animal for no damn good reason. This is way different compared to killing your neighbors Pit fucking Bully Dog out of anger because just attacked your kid.

For the hell of it. Take these two examples I just laid out. Think the range of fantasies and urges and activities some might engage in that are inbetween. Where the Examples I give set a RANGE. What about all the stuff in between.

Let's say, somebody hates Pit Bull dogs. Their neighbors Dog has not done anything wrong, yet the person at times entertains in thought ways of killing that damn dog. Perhaps slipping it poison or whatnot. Again, the dog has done nothing wrong. Let's take it out of fantasy for a moment. Let's say every morning that same person wakes up to get their paper and decides it fuck with the neighbors pit bull time (a bit of a sadistic morning ritual) where they throw rocks or something at the dog or even mind fuck with the dog.

Another example would be Tossing a Ball for a chained up dog to go fetch and watch itself choke itself on it's own chain, and sit back and fucking laugh about it. Ummmm... well.. this ain't exactly fully sociopathic and it's not exactly all that kind either. It's well sort of twisted and sadistic.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:34:14 PM   
subtee


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Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Honey, do you hate or even dislike anyone that you hurt?

Sociopaths are completely self-focused to the extent that they can't comprehend boundaries no matter how broad they extend. Even with our crazy shit, they wouldn't be able to maintain. It just wouldn't occur to them.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:35:41 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		It sounds like you are talking about “shared playground” statistics but errantly applying them to motives as well. In a shared playground you are likely to find both predators, prey and passives. But each has a solely unique motive for going to that playground and each derives a solely unique reward from the playground. The only gray/crossover area is that the playground supports several types of players but sadistic personality disorder, and masochistic personality disorders are uniquely different from their sexual sadism and sexual masochism couther parts. Even going back to the ill-conceived foundations of sadism, Freudians believe in 3 fundamental types of sadism.


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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:36:27 PM   
Kana


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Status: offline 		Whiplash,
You are missing a critical point
The sadist may get off on the dogs suffering
The sociopath is incapable of such an emotional response
Any joy/sensation they receive is based entirely on how things hit their own internal radar.
Matter of fact, the sociopath will kill the dog, not to see it suffer, but because it is inconvenient to him, or gets in the way, or a hundred other reasons, and when he does, it will almost assuredly be done with a cold blooded detachment that would horrify the majority of us
But the one thing it won't kill the dog for is to be able to see it suffer
Because by definition, a sociopath cannot empathize with any other living creatures pain/joy/love/hurt/remorse
The only feelings that are real and have validity are their own.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:36:56 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
[edited cause I fucked up]


Time for a whippin'


I'm so overdue I should pay a fine.

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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:37:53 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

Sociopathic tendecies is what the OP was attempting to describe, by using the term "sociopathic urges".


I think so too. The thing is that it's a pretty gutsy thing to start an OP on such a delicate subject. That said, I try to jump on key words and try to see the intent of the OP, in this case to try to understand and make sense of something in his own mind rather than to criticize. For that reason, I won't jump down his throat and criticize him but rather try to understand past his misconceptions.

- LA

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:40:23 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Honey, do you hate or even dislike anyone that you hurt?

Sociopaths are completely self-focused to the extent that they can't comprehend boundaries no matter how broad they extend. Even with our crazy shit, they wouldn't be able to maintain. It just wouldn't occur to them.


The focus is upon "Sociopath like urges", somebody with One foot in the door of the Sociopath Crazy Room,

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:41:23 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
[edited cause I fucked up]


Time for a whippin'


I'm so overdue I should pay a fine.



It can be upgraded to a whuppin'

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:43:08 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Sociopathic tendecies is what the OP was attempting to describe, by using the term "sociopathic urges".


I think so too. The thing is that it's a pretty gutsy thing to start an OP on such a delicate subject. That said, I try to jump on key words and try to see the intent of the OP, in this case to try to understand and make sense of something in his own mind rather than to criticize. For that reason, I won't jump down his throat and criticize him but rather try to understand past his misconceptions.

- LA


It's the ability to understand the General Concept of what is trying to be expressed, regardless if the right/wrong words are being used.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:44:49 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Sociopathic tendecies is what the OP was attempting to describe, by using the term "sociopathic urges".


I think so too. The thing is that it's a pretty gutsy thing to start an OP on such a delicate subject. That said, I try to jump on key words and try to see the intent of the OP, in this case to try to understand and make sense of something in his own mind rather than to criticize. For that reason, I won't jump down his throat and criticize him but rather try to understand past his misconceptions.

- LA


It's the ability to understand the General Concept of what is trying to be expressed, regardless if the right/wrong words are being used.


Years or working as a consultant has made me an expert in this ;-)

Edited to add: we can't have a meaningful and intelligent conversation if we get hung up in semantics.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/5/2010 10:46:16 PM >

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:46:43 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
[edited cause I fucked up]


Time for a whippin'


I'm so overdue I should pay a fine.



It can be upgraded to a whuppin'



You say whuppin I say whippin, let's call the whole thing on

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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:48:19 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Grab your snowshoes and c'mon by...


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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:48:47 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		subtee, I'm genuinely curious if the way I reworded my statement for you was helpful.

- LA

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:49:01 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Sociopathic tendecies is what the OP was attempting to describe, by using the term "sociopathic urges".


I think so too. The thing is that it's a pretty gutsy thing to start an OP on such a delicate subject. That said, I try to jump on key words and try to see the intent of the OP, in this case to try to understand and make sense of something in his own mind rather than to criticize. For that reason, I won't jump down his throat and criticize him but rather try to understand past his misconceptions.

- LA


It's the ability to understand the General Concept of what is trying to be expressed, regardless if the right/wrong words are being used.


Years or working as a consultant has made me an expert in this ;-)

Edited to add: we can't have a meaningful and intelligent conversation if we get hung up in semantics.

- LA


All the threads here boil and toil down to semantics.

But this is important: sadists are not generally sociopaths, nor do they have sociopathic tendencies or urges or anything else. It's just not so.

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:51:13 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Grab your snowshoes and c'mon by...




Snowshoes...YKINMK

Think of something else?

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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:52:48 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry
We are being deluged in the NE

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