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RE: S&M - 2/6/2010 2:13:25 PM   
sodsta


Posts: 246
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From: London, England
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Subtee,

Thanks for your comment. I actually want to apologise, and will readily admit that I got it wrong and was using the incorrect terminology. My theory is still solid in my head, but I think I will need to consider exactly what word or phrase I need to replace the existing ones with, because you are right, "sociopath" was not what I meant.

Again, thanks for your comment, and I apologise if any offence was caused.

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: S&M - 2/7/2010 6:50:28 AM   
subtee


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Hi Sodsta,

No need to apologize to me, you've got an interesting discussion. I was probably too "earnest" in my responses. I blame the Pinot Noir...and my ex, The Creature, who is a sociopath. The way it manifests and the resultant carnage for him and for those in his life is never positive, always damaging. That isn't the case for what I understand of S & M, which is why I couldn't reconcile the two.

Just another opinion, really.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: S&M - 2/7/2010 6:56:23 AM   
LaTigresse


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In reading through this thread I think that one thing that is often not realized is that the lack of emotional empathy of a sociopath may very well give them zero interest in BDSM at all. They will do what gives them most pleasure and quite often, that is material gain. You want to see sociopaths, look at the top tiers in the corporate world. Look at Wall street. If the sociopath is not a sadist or a masochist (yes they definitely exist) then they will have no use for the dance of BDSM at all.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: S&M - 2/7/2010 7:09:41 AM   
ResidentSadist


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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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That may be the first perspective on wallstreet I have ever agreed with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
. . . You want to see sociopaths, look at the top tiers in the corporate world. Look at Wall street. . . .



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-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.


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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: S&M - 2/7/2010 7:11:10 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Errr, it's my understanding that a sociopath has no sense of guilt or remorse. They are incapable of feeling empathic attachment to others.


and that would take ALL the fun out of sadism if we lost our empathy wouldn't it?


For me, sure. Shrugs. But I'm not a sociopath.

I've been in situations where I had to deal with real sociopaths-they look like people, act like people, but they aren't like the rest of us.
Their telescopes only point in.




That is a very apt description of sociopaths. You can encounter them daily and not know. You can be involved with one and as brilliant as you think you are, it might take you a while to figure it out.

When you are involved in BDSM with a sociopath, sometimes the lines can get blurred. Let me give you a real life example from my life:

You meet someone who you are really into. You see there are some anti social behaviors, but you say, eh, we are really hot for each other, he will never do those things with me.

So, you introduce this anti social guy to BDSM, since you enjoy being sexually submissive. He expresses deep interest and admits he has harbored thoughts of being Dominant for years with no way to express them.

When finally allowed free expression of these thoughts, this anti social person does a great job with it, until slowly but surely, he becomes more and more sadistic and you object to that. He does not listen or seem to care; he manipulates the conversation to say how can it be his fault when you opened the floodgates by turning him onto this.

You attempt to explain that you are not a major masochist and this increasing sadistic behavior is scaring you. He keeps lying and saying he will stop, but he never does. You love him so you try to work through it.

All this time, however, his anti social behaviors are turning sociopathic; he appears to have no empathy for anyone, including you, who he claims to love.

Eventually, his sociopathic behavior drives you away and his sadistic urges are now there permanently.

You can be a sociopath, or a budding sociopath and then, when exposed to BDSM, you finally get a chance to express those sadistic desires you have built up. This person now is practicing sadism with someone who is not necessarily a masochist.

I agree though that being a sadist is not related to being a sociopath, though the opposite is true; most socipaths are sadistic to a degree. It is how they express that, or their real sociopathic urges that distinguish highly functioning ones, as the one I know, who is able to speak to people, manipulate them and seem normal, to non functioning ones.

One could say, that if you expose an anti social person to BDSM who has sadistic tendencies the very act of allowing free expression in that area pushed the anti social person to become a full fledged sociopath. And you could also say that is bullshit, that he would have turned fully sociopathic without any expression ever of being a sadist.

It is all very interesting to speculate until you are involved with this person. Then you have to stop trying to analyze him and analyze why you stayed with him and how to extricate yourself from the relationship.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 2/7/2010 7:32:35 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: S&M - 2/7/2010 9:01:00 AM   
subtee


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(((hugs))), sexyred

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Don't believe everything you think...

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: S&M - 2/7/2010 12:44:42 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Psychopathy
(pronounced /saɪˈkɒpəθi/[1][2]) is a personality disorder whose hallmark is a lack of empathy. Researcher Robert Hare, whose Hare Psychopathy Checklist is widely used, describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators[3][4] who use charisma, manipulation, intimidation, sexual intercourse and violence[5][6][7] to control others and to satisfy their own needs. Lacking in conscience and empathy, they take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without guilt or remorse".[8] "What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony."[9] Psychopaths are glib and superficially charming, and many psychopaths are excellent mimics of normal human emotion;[10] some psychopaths can blend in, undetected, in a variety of surroundings, including corporate environments.[11] There is neither a cure nor any effective treatment for psychopathy; there are no medications or other techniques which can instill empathy, and psychopaths who undergo traditional talk therapy only become more adept at manipulating others.[12] The consensus among researchers is that psychopathy stems from a specific neurological disorder which is biological in origin and present from birth.[10] It is estimated that one percent of the general population are psychopaths.[13][14]

Of course personality disorders such as psychopathy (which it is more commonly called now) are exhibited to lesser or greater degrees in all people. Most of us have some sort of tendency in some degree to all the personality disorders out there, but that does not mean anything when looking at sadism...
As a masochist I would not let anyone who lacked empathy hit me. The motivation of my current lover is to give me pleasure, and he enjoys the dom space aspect himself. I can see it in his face, and it has nothing to do with psychopathy. If he was a psychopath he wouldn't care if I enjoyed it, it would be all about him, and it isn't
[/link][link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#cite_note-sciam-13]


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(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: S&M - 3/15/2010 7:07:18 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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-=Righteous Necro=-

Because this thread isn't but a few weeks old and it already answers all the other questions in sadist threads floating around. We just did all the semantic dances explaining there is a difference between a "sadist" practicing consensual sadomasochism in BDSM and a non consensual psychotic personality disorders that also qualify using the term "sadist". Honestly people, the correct term is "sexual sadism" and it defines what we do verses the pyscho killer torturing people to death .. look it up.

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 3/15/2010 7:08:33 AM >


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-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.


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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: S&M - 3/15/2010 7:11:57 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
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It's easy. As a sadist,you just make your propensities clear and see what comes up.

I don't worry about trying to "put a good face to it." Only the girls who like me and my style matter-the rest can go screw themselves.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

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Profile   Post #: 109
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