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RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:53:29 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Whiplash,
You are missing a critical point
The sadist may get off on the dogs suffering
The sociopath is incapable of such an emotional response
Any joy/sensation they receive is based entirely on how things hit their own internal radar.
Matter of fact, the sociopath will kill the dog, not to see it suffer, but because it is inconvenient to him, or gets in the way, or a hundred other reasons, and when he does, it will almost assuredly be done with a cold blooded detachment that would horrify the majority of us
But the one thing it won't kill the dog for is to be able to see it suffer
Because by definition, a sociopath cannot empathize with any other living creatures pain/joy/love/hurt/remorse
The only feelings that are real and have validity are their own.



Kind of like swatting a fly, devoid of remorse, nor caring about the creature at all. It's life and suffering held in the same regard as opening and closing of a refrigerator door.

Perhaps killing a cat, not caring about the cat itself, but rather more concern with seeing what kind of interesting blood patterns that are made while it bleeds out.




< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/5/2010 10:58:33 PM >

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:55:08 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Oh god, yes you are. We are to get 2 to 4 inches. Not satisfactory, in comparison.

I should have taken helicopter lessons. I really, honestly wanted to. Instead, I'm a writer.

"You want fries with that?"

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 10:58:01 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Sociopathic tendecies is what the OP was attempting to describe, by using the term "sociopathic urges".


I think so too. The thing is that it's a pretty gutsy thing to start an OP on such a delicate subject. That said, I try to jump on key words and try to see the intent of the OP, in this case to try to understand and make sense of something in his own mind rather than to criticize. For that reason, I won't jump down his throat and criticize him but rather try to understand past his misconceptions.

- LA

Students should learn to ask, not try and teach what they have no clue about. The OP didn't ask. He claimed to teach us about "sociopathic urges" and S&M in a poorly disguised question from atop his camouflage soapbox.

Being a sadist, I'd just smack him with his half read pysch books. Freud he is not. His crappy armchair theories are selling fearful misinformation about “suppressed desires” and a supposed relationship between them, S&M and “socipathic urges”.

Half-baked armchair shrinks fucking up other people’s heads have no quarter with me.


_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:01:47 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Whiplash,
You are missing a critical point
The sadist may get off on the dogs suffering
The sociopath is incapable of such an emotional response
Any joy/sensation they receive is based entirely on how things hit their own internal radar.
Matter of fact, the sociopath will kill the dog, not to see it suffer, but because it is inconvenient to him, or gets in the way, or a hundred other reasons, and when he does, it will almost assuredly be done with a cold blooded detachment that would horrify the majority of us
But the one thing it won't kill the dog for is to be able to see it suffer
Because by definition, a sociopath cannot empathize with any other living creatures pain/joy/love/hurt/remorse
The only feelings that are real and have validity are their own.



Kind of like swatting a fly, devoid of remorse, nor caring about the creature at all. It's life and suffering held in the same regard as opening and closing of a refrigerator door.

Perhaps killing a cat, not caring about the cat itself, but rather more concern with seeing what kind of interesting blood patterns that are made while it bleeds out.





Now you are on the right path.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:05:11 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

Sociopathic tendecies is what the OP was attempting to describe, by using the term "sociopathic urges".


I think so too. The thing is that it's a pretty gutsy thing to start an OP on such a delicate subject. That said, I try to jump on key words and try to see the intent of the OP, in this case to try to understand and make sense of something in his own mind rather than to criticize. For that reason, I won't jump down his throat and criticize him but rather try to understand past his misconceptions.

- LA

Students should learn to ask, not try and teach what they have no clue about.


Actually there are educational cybersystemics theories that would disagree with that comment. They would say that the best way to see if someone understands something is to have them express it in their own words and then have a conversation about it, and then get them to re-explain it in their own words again. That is call Pask's Conversation Theory which is one of the theories I use when I've done most or my graduate research on discussion forums in education.

quote:

The OP didn't ask. He claimed to teach us about "sociopathic urges" and S&M in a poorly disguised question from atop his camouflage soapbox.


That is a perception you have of the OP. I've discussed with Kye many times in Ask A Mistress and I find him to be respectufl. What happened this time is that he left his comfort zone and treaded in new waters. He seems to have dealt well with it up until now :-)

quote:

Being a sadist, I'd just smack him with his half read pysch books.


See I'm a sadist too and my approach is different ;-)

quote:

Freud he is not. His crappy armchair theories are selling fearful misinformation about “suppressed desires” and a supposed relationship between them, S&M and “socipathic urges. Half-baked armchair shrinks fucking up other people’s heads have no quarter with me.”


Again, I honestly think he's just trying to make sense of stuff. But as I said in my initial response, I understand why there was such a knee jerk reaction to his OP.

- LA




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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:06:16 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

subtee, I'm genuinely curious if the way I reworded my statement for you was helpful.

- LA


Yes< I see that you're accommodating the OP, and I dig that because so many posters shut down and shut out, but I just can't accept that any form of sociopathy has anything to do with BDSM.

While I agree sociopaths may be drawn to sadism, sadists should in no way be characterized as sociopaths or as having sociopathic tendencies.

Simple example: a sociopath with tell a lie, not because it benefits him or her to lie, not necessarily to get out of something, not to save face, although those may be the end results of their lies. A sociopath will tell a lie because it doesn't occur to them not to. They just have a different calibrator within. Sadists, in general, have reasons for their sadism. It makes sense, even if it isn't "PC" or socially accepted.

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:07:46 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		And to all, S&M is only about ONE TYPE of sadism, sexual sadism.

-=Differences between a Sadist and a Psychopath=-

- A psychopath will usually choose victims that are closer to them in terms of age, appearance, and occupation. They will then expect these people to love them, and a psychopath loves to hurt the ones who love him.


- A sadist, by contrast, typically chooses victims who are different from him in terms of age, appearance, and occupation. They want to symbolically destroy those groups of people, almost like a missionary serial killer.

- It's sometimes said that a psychopath is both sadist and masochist. A sadist is never a masochist.


- Psychopaths ignore their victim's suffering. Sadists relish their victim's suffering.


- People who experiment and go both ways with Bondage & Discipline (B&D) or Sado-Masochism (S&M) are not sadists, nor are they psychopaths.


Ref: http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Sadism

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:15:04 PM   
Scheherazade67


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline 		I'd have to ask the sadist in my life to be certain but I am pretty sure he just gets off on it.  I do not think it's a means of satisfying violent urges by misdirecting them toward someone willing.  My guess is - and again it's only a guess - is that he just enjoys it.  

(in reply to sodsta)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:16:48 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

subtee, I'm genuinely curious if the way I reworded my statement for you was helpful.

- LA


Yes< I see that you're accommodating the OP, and I dig that because so many posters shut down and shut out,


Cool

quote:

but I just can't accept that any form of sociopathy has anything to do with BDSM.


It doesn't. And that is not just my opinion, but a widely espoused opinion by progressive experts in the field of psychology and psychiatry.

quote:

While I agree sociopaths may be drawn to sadism, sadists should in no way be characterized as sociopaths or as having sociopathic tendencies.


Again we agree. But some sociopaths who are drawn to sadism may have found their way into this community. That is evident from some of the stuff that I read on these boards and in the profiles on the other side.

quote:

Simple example: a sociopath with tell a lie, not because it benefits him or her to lie, not necessarily to get out of something, not to save face, although those may be the end results of their lies. A sociopath will tell a lie because it doesn't occur to them not to. They just have a different calibrator within. Sadists, in general, have reasons for their sadism. It makes sense, even if it isn't "PC" or socially accepted.


I'm not sure I agree with that statement. First of all, I'm not enough of an expert in sociopathic behaviour to confirm what you are saying about the motivation to lie so I won't touch that part. I will however address the second part of the statement and say that myself, as a sadist, am deeply interested in why I am a sadist and how I have come to be one. I have come to the conclusion that there is indeed a reason for my sadism. To go into that in detail would require me to divulge more personal information about myself than I am willing to, but let's say that a great deal of it has to do with needing to feel strong sensations and testing limits and boundaries constantly. I've heard many athletes talk this way too.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:21:05 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		I think we're agreeing ya smexy

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:26:00 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		By the definition you put here, I would be a psychopath, which I can tell you with absolute certitude that I'm not. Let's see, point by point...

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
And to all, S&M is only about ONE TYPE of sadism, sexual sadism.


Yes. I'll add sensual sadism as well.

quote:

-=Differences between a Sadist and a Psychopath=-

- A psychopath will usually choose victims that are closer to them in terms of age, appearance, and occupation. They will then expect these people to love them, and a psychopath loves to hurt the ones who love him.

- A sadist, by contrast, typically chooses victims who are different from him in terms of age, appearance, and occupation. They want to symbolically destroy those groups of people, almost like a missionary serial killer.

Really? A distinction between the age, appearance and occupation of the person they choose? I'm not sure what this is based on but it doesn't seem very legitimate to me. I have a feeling that this is a very flawed attempt at psychological profiling.

I am a sadist and I love to hurt the ones who love me (and might I add that I love back) in the hottest, sexiest way possible. See how that really doesn't work with the definition above?

quote:

- It's sometimes said that a psychopath is both sadist and masochist. A sadist is never a masochist.

I am both a sadist and a masochist, though my sadistic urges are definitely stronger in this stage of my life. It wasn't like that about 10 years ago.

quote:

- Psychopaths ignore their victim's suffering. Sadists relish their victim's suffering.

On this I agree.

quote:

- People who experiment and go both ways with Bondage & Discipline (B&D) or Sado-Masochism (S&M) are not sadists, nor are they psychopaths.

I would hope that they weren't based on the principles of WIITWD about safe, sane and consensual, but I am sure some will infiltrate.

quote:

Ref: http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Sadism

Ah phew! I thought this was actually coming from a credible source! ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:27:11 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

I think we're agreeing ya smexy

Fabulous! See, this is why I love discussions! We work it out. ;-)

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:28:39 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Uh, I gotta go to bed, I'm thinkin


< Message edited by subtee -- 2/5/2010 11:30:11 PM >

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Don't believe everything you think...

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:31:17 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Uh, I gotta go to bed, I'm thinkin

< Message edited by subtee -- 2/6/2010 2:30:11 AM >


Good save ;-)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:33:49 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		Smewch, Lady!

Nighty night

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:42:55 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		We went from Sociopaths to Psychopaths?

(in reply to sodsta)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:54:46 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

We went from Sociopaths to Psychopaths?


Craaaaaaazy

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: S&M - 2/5/2010 11:57:09 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

We went from Sociopaths to Psychopaths?

Many experts (e.g. Hare: http://www.hare.org/), would argue that the only difference is in the origin of the disorder. I'm not nearly enough of an expert to pronounce myself on this, I just based myself on the premise of these experts.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: S&M - 2/6/2010 12:03:56 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

All the threads here boil and toil down to semantics.


And I find that unfortunate. Ideally, they would really be about ideas.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: S&M - 2/6/2010 12:12:27 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

All the threads here boil and toil down to semantics.


And I find that unfortunate. Ideally, they would really be about ideas.

- LA


I agree in theory, but it's a rare forum board (Here, there, everywhere) that doesn't degenerate into quibbling and hair splitting

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 80
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