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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

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ORIGINAL: Fitznicely
If one woman - one woman - can put her hand on her heart and say she's never thought "these guys need fucking help", they're liars too. Now someone's in the position to help, and everyone's flaming her. I mean sheesh girls, c'mon. You want Doms to be consistent? Your turn

But if you change how you represent yourself based on jujubee's ideas of what women want to hear, then surely you would no longer be representing yourself-you would be representing jujubee...

It's not that I don't think guys could use help-I suppose that IMHO how to write a successful memo is something you should work out for yourself. Not something you should be cribbing off someone else.

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The crux of the experiment was to, as far as I can see, prove that a well written, thoughtful mail is more likely to get a response.

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Like all pranks, there is a victim. How much they suffered is an unknown

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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The crux of the experiment was to, as far as I can see, prove that a well written, thoughtful mail is more likely to get a response.

Had that ever really been in doubt?

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

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i dont think its the cmails that are the problem. the root of the problem is a persons profile. write a desparate 'do me' profile and youll get desparate do me' types. write a clueless profile and youll get predators. write a miserable snarky profile and youll get fuck all.

Not necessarily true lally - well except for the snarky profile [:D] My profiles have always been of the respectful kind and yet I get the nasty, disgusting messages all the time. I think the blame should be where the blame lies, on the shoulders of those who send those messages.

.

i agree that the poisenous pricks who write shite all day every day should be put in barrels and tossed over victoria falls [:D]. but that isnt going to happen (sadly) that would be a fun day out! [:)]. theyre asshats. but in amongst the asshats you must be getting some decent folk saying hi.

i dont seem to be getting them anymore, not sure why but to be honest ive rarely had that much trouble from them. one or two a week tops and i just dont ever write back.

or are we talking about the great pretenders. cos i used to get those and i guess i still do, but i spot them immediately and give no further thought to them. its part of being on cm really.

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ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

It's the method not the actual messages men would be learning to write, I honestly see no harm in it. It's not like she wold be doing the actual writing or that they would be copying them off her. They would just see what a message that gets responses....positive responses looks like.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

You know, the more I thought about this "experiment" the more I thought, how stupid and useless to waste your and other's time with that charade.

Because really, what purpose did it serve and what did you or we really learn?

We learned that a woman who once posted how confused she was about her feelings about being submissive and not having her brains respected with a man who did not make her feel all that good about her submission and who treated her like a piece of meat, now turns the tables on WOMEN, none of which hurt her by pretending to be a caring man.

Interesting, but puzzling. One never knows the hidden agenda of posters but in this case, I think it may be long held anger towards Doms and it flipped on the women.

Silly and makes the OP look bad, smug and not trustworthy.

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ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

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Like all pranks, there is a victim. How much they suffered is an unknown

But EW it wasn't a prank, juju did it to see if a well-written profile and message would get positive responses....which they did. If you read the OP, juju clearly says that the women took it well, so where are the victims?

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ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

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ORIGINAL: Fitznicely
If one woman - one woman - can put her hand on her heart and say she's never thought "these guys need fucking help", they're liars too. Now someone's in the position to help, and everyone's flaming her. I mean sheesh girls, c'mon. You want Doms to be consistent? Your turn

But if you change how you represent yourself based on jujubee's ideas of what women want to hear, then surely you would no longer be representing yourself-you would be representing jujubee...

It's not that I don't think guys could use help-I suppose that IMHO how to write a successful memo is something you should work out for yourself. Not something you should be cribbing off someone else.

It's not Jujubee's fault if she were to post some mails and guys crib 'em. That's totally their responsibility. If they can't tell a guide from a cheat-sheet, that's their problem.

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ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1


I don't care that she fessed up and came clean. It still makes it bullshit that she did that.

And I don't pass men up because of their ability or inability to write. I pass them up if I do not find them interesting, if I find them rude or unattractive and if they are clearly not someone I would like to know.

Lots of brilliantly written emails come my way; does not make the guy any more appealing to me if he does not meet certain criteria.

Ah, but do you reply to those brilliantly written ones, specifically the ones you reject - and of the ones that are less than brilliantly written, how do you assess their compliance with their criteria?

The crux of the experiment was to, as far as I can see, prove that a well written, thoughtful mail is more likely to get a response. I personally don't see that gender matters. Yes, the subterfuge was unfortunate, but as I said, how's that different to the majority of people on the other side?

If you reply to all the well written mails, regardless of interest and bin all the less well written ones, aren't you proving Juju's point?

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ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

You know, the more I thought about this "experiment" the more I thought, how stupid and useless to waste your and other's time with that charade.

Because really, what purpose did it serve and what did you or we really learn?

We learned that a woman who once posted how confused she was about her feelings about being submissive and not having her brains respected with a man who did not make her feel all that good about her submission and who treated her like a piece of meat, now turns the tables on WOMEN, none of which hurt her by pretending to be a caring man.

Interesting, but puzzling. One never knows the hidden agenda of posters but in this case, I think it may be long held anger towards Doms and it flipped on the women.

Silly and makes the OP look bad, smug and not trustworthy.

I don't mind if you don't trust me, or listen to me in any way, shape or form. I do think it's fascinating that I've managed to upset a handful of people here who I didn't even write to, but the people who received the email are not upset. I don't mind if you don't trust me on that either, because I won't drag them into it to appease the message board. What I will say is that I think there was a purpose to the experiment - I wanted to see if all the griping about women never responding was true, if someone took care and time. That may very well come off as sort of smug, since I managed to get the responses that a lot of men don't seem to get, but I didn't do it to be smug. I did it because I see a comment every day on this board about how women are fake, stupid bitches who don't know how to submit, and then I see a whole parade of confident, interesting women taking the time to either berate, make fun of or get angry with that person. It may give no one anything more than a passing irritation, but it gives me the knowledge that all it really takes to get a response is composure.

I understand that you think this makes me some sort of revenge-seeking hurt sub, but how does this hurt anybody really? An email is not a promise, and conversations only go a few emails all the time. The second email I didn't say "ha HA tricked you, you're NOT an interesting, lovely person." I said "just so you know, I really did email you because of your profile and the really confident, attractive way you presented yourself." As for wasting your time, you're not required to read this thread, or comment on it, and I think you're being overly harsh. I'm actually an extremely nice person, and what I was attempting to do (despite knowing that everyone wouldn't love it) was to point out that kindness is a better way to go when trying to get a response from a woman on this site. That wasn't aimed at you - it was aimed at the Doms who write the mean, selfish stuff. I know they won't hear it, but that doesn't mean I want to give up trying.

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ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

You know, the more I thought about this "experiment" the more I thought, how stupid and useless to waste your and other's time with that charade.

Because really, what purpose did it serve and what did you or we really learn?

We learned that a woman who once posted how confused she was about her feelings about being submissive and not having her brains respected with a man who did not make her feel all that good about her submission and who treated her like a piece of meat, now turns the tables on WOMEN, none of which hurt her by pretending to be a caring man.

Interesting, but puzzling. One never knows the hidden agenda of posters but in this case, I think it may be long held anger towards Doms and it flipped on the women.

Silly and makes the OP look bad, smug and not trustworthy.

I don't mind if you don't trust me, or listen to me in any way, shape or form. I do think it's fascinating that I've managed to upset a handful of people here who I didn't even write to, but the people who received the email are not upset. I don't mind if you don't trust me on that either, because I won't drag them into it to appease the message board. What I will say is that I think there was a purpose to the experiment - I wanted to see if all the griping about women never responding was true, if someone took care and time. That may very well come off as sort of smug, since I managed to get the responses that a lot of men don't seem to get, but I didn't do it to be smug. I did it because I see a comment every day on this board about how women are fake, stupid bitches who don't know how to submit, and then I see a whole parade of confident, interesting women taking the time to either berate, make fun of or get angry with that person. It may give no one anything more than a passing irritation, but it gives me the knowledge that all it really takes to get a response is composure.

I understand that you think this makes me some sort of revenge-seeking hurt sub, but how does this hurt anybody really? An email is not a promise, and conversations only go a few emails all the time. The second email I didn't say "ha HA tricked you, you're NOT an interesting, lovely person." I said "just so you know, I really did email you because of your profile and the really confident, attractive way you presented yourself." As for wasting your time, you're not required to read this thread, or comment on it, and I think you're being overly harsh. I'm actually an extremely nice person, and what I was attempting to do (despite knowing that everyone wouldn't love it) was to point out that kindness is a better way to go when trying to get a response from a woman on this site. That wasn't aimed at you - it was aimed at the Doms who write the mean, selfish stuff. I know they won't hear it, but that doesn't mean I want to give up trying.

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I can promise you that well written initial emails and well written profiles do not always merit a response.  And this can be for a variety of reasons such as personal preference (you have a goatee or beard, I prefer clean shaven, you are holding a cigarette, I think smoking is gross, you live far away, I want a touch/be touched relationship), or maybe I am tired or in a bad mood and don't feel like writing a response.  Not scientific, but the truth.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

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ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1


I don't care that she fessed up and came clean. It still makes it bullshit that she did that.

And I don't pass men up because of their ability or inability to write. I pass them up if I do not find them interesting, if I find them rude or unattractive and if they are clearly not someone I would like to know.

Lots of brilliantly written emails come my way; does not make the guy any more appealing to me if he does not meet certain criteria.

Ah, but do you reply to those brilliantly written ones, specifically the ones you reject - and of the ones that are less than brilliantly written, how do you assess their compliance with their criteria?

The crux of the experiment was to, as far as I can see, prove that a well written, thoughtful mail is more likely to get a response. I personally don't see that gender matters. Yes, the subterfuge was unfortunate, but as I said, how's that different to the majority of people on the other side?

If you reply to all the well written mails, regardless of interest and bin all the less well written ones, aren't you proving Juju's point?

No, you did not comprehend what I wrote.

Let me try and make this clear:

1. I personally get both brilliantly written, poorly written and some inexplicable emails.
2. I reply when and if I am interested in any of the above, if I read the profile and find something interesting in it or the email itself.
3. One more time, if someone writes a less than stellar email and I find their profile interesting, I may in fact, reply back as I am extremely aware that not everyone writes as well as I do.
4. Gender does factor into this; since a woman pretending to be a man writing to a woman is projecting her own view of what a man would or should write to a group of women who all varying levels of need.
5. I don't care that jujubee fessed up; it was a passive aggressive way of saying, I know I am a total asshole for writing a ton of women and then telling them I was not really a good man, but a woman trying to prove a point, that men do not know what to write to solicit a reply.
6. I feel badly for the OP if she has so much time to perpetuate subterfuge. Perhaps that is not really her photo? Perhaps she only posted it to see if men would prefer to write a pretty woman than an unattractive one?
7. Those who are defending her are not getting it and I wonder how they would have responded if they were one of the "control group".
8. If she had written me and I wrote back for any reason and she fessed up to me with what she did, her head would have been spinning over what I would written back. I don't like being fooled and therefore I do not believe that ALL the women wrote back to say thank you.

I am done with this debate, I have some other threads to attend to.

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Thank you for saving Me the keystrokes.  There was only one thing missing, and here it is:

If the OP really didn't feel that this was an unethical, dishonest thing to do, she wouldn't have started the thread by saying herself, that her actions wouldn't be very popular.