RE: An Experiment (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:21:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

To show it's not confined to the ladies. My most recent favorite:

hello sorry to bother you but i have been looking around on anouther site and have noticed something that really excites me and was wondering if you would help me with it?? I wish for some one to cum all over one of my pics all over my face ill even post it on my profile. will you please help this little slut out??
 
 
(I referred them to Level)
 


Jesus, I don't even get to do it on her face, just the pic of it? [>:]



sexyred1 -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:28:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

To show it's not confined to the ladies. My most recent favorite:

hello sorry to bother you but i have been looking around on anouther site and have noticed something that really excites me and was wondering if you would help me with it?? I wish for some one to cum all over one of my pics all over my face ill even post it on my profile. will you please help this little slut out??
 
 
(I referred them to Level)
 


Jesus, I don't even get to do it on her face, just the pic of it? [>:]


Ingrate, you want EVERYTHING?? LOL



LadyPact -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:28:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

probably should avoid creating confrontational situations like this.


If you are able to find a way to live with integrity, you will not have to struggle with these sort of situations



I think that's the reason this thread is getting under my skin - I never lie to anyone, generally, and I've never done anything that was remotely like a trick. April Fool's Day makes me uncomfortable [:)] I consider myself someone with a lot of integrity, and I honestly didn't think that in the mass of email every woman receives mine was going to cause some giant upheaval of the universe. I still don't think it did - I think the only thing that caused any excitement was posting results on the message boards, where it's obviously (and rightly) become subject to opinion.

Do you really not see the hypocrisy of the above?



That's exactly my point. Since I did trick a group of people, and lied to them, I'm having a harder time defending myself than I normally would have, since I'm not used to being in a morally precarious position. It's really the degree of the trick that I'm arguing with people about. I'm saying it was really quite minor, and others are saying it was major. I'm not arguing that it wasn't a trick. You've never lied in a minor way to anyone in your entire life?

I'm absolutely not saying that I didn't.  What I will say is, it's been a hell of a long time since I did and I wasn't any less wrong for doing it as you were here.  Don't think for one second that I've never had to walk up to someone, look them in the face, and admit that I wasn't honest with them.  I have.  It's because of the very fact that I don't want to repeat having to do that which leads to Me preferring not to lie in the first place. 

The thing is, you don't really have a defense.  That's why you're having a difficult time holding your position.  You did lie to people.  Also, you did it in a calculating way.  You planned it out and executed it.

So, while I'm not saying you are a horrible person, or even that what you did was horrible, I sincerely believe that you used poor judgment in what you did.  It wasn't particularly something to be proud of, by any means.  Then, when some of us didn't pat you on the head for being deceptive, you started the victim thing.  I don't see any need to indulge you in that.  All that happened was that you got called on your actions.



jujubeeMB -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:34:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

And as far as 100% response, well, how the fuck can we trust her results when she is an admitted fraud, poser, and unethical.... and yes I will say that as someone who works with human subjects and needs internal review of any research I undertake, people who play with other people in this way to satisfy their own curiosity knowing what they are doing is wrong, well those people suck



Again, you've never told a minor lie ever in your life to anyone at any point? Because if you have, you might as well call yourself all the names you just called me. I think red - who still disagrees with me, I imagine - has already pointed out that she sees I wasn't doing this maliciously. And since she thought I was, initially, I hope that you can see that too.



Level -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:35:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

To show it's not confined to the ladies. My most recent favorite:

hello sorry to bother you but i have been looking around on anouther site and have noticed something that really excites me and was wondering if you would help me with it?? I wish for some one to cum all over one of my pics all over my face ill even post it on my profile. will you please help this little slut out??
 
 
(I referred them to Level)
 


Jesus, I don't even get to do it on her face, just the pic of it? [>:]


Ingrate, you want EVERYTHING?? LOL


*sits and pines for the days of good, quality spam cmail* [:(]



sexyred1 -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:37:00 PM)

Hey, didn't we already kiss and make up? Julia, you came in late here. :)

I can still disagree with jujubee, but I know she was not malicious.

jujubee, you have cmail.



ResidentSadist -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:41:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
. . . I started a fake profile
. . . and I wrote very personal, kind, and warm messages.
. . . Guess what? Every single woman I wrote to responded, and told me that my email and profile were "refreshing." . . .
. . . So all the men complaining that women don't respond to messages: make a better profile . . .

Men, women, Dom/mes, subs and switches have always complained about fakes, rude responses, lack of responses etc

Long ago, a bunch of slaves were complaining about the responses they were getting. They said they listed as “submissives” not “slaves” because if you listed as a slave, only assholes and wannabe’s responded. They claimed there was a lack of sincere or genuine M/s (TPE) lifestyle members here at CollarMe.

I was curious, so I wrote an excellent profile for an imaginary female slave. It was carefully worded to convey what was offered, what type of relationship was sought and what features in a partner were sought . . . and it was polite, respectful and written in HIGH PROTOCOL.

Although I didn’t do a mailing, the profile got a flood of polite and sincere responses from some very respected authors, BDSM event coordinators, community leaders and etc. About 90% of the responses were from sincere, experienced TPE lifestylers. The 10% was mostly form letters from couples seeking a 3rd. TPE is alive and well here at CM.

I learned the same thing you did. If you put up a crappy profile, you get crappy people responding.



jujubeeMB -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:46:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm absolutely not saying that I didn't.  What I will say is, it's been a hell of a long time since I did and I wasn't any less wrong for doing it as you were here.  Don't think for one second that I've never had to walk up to someone, look them in the face, and admit that I wasn't honest with them.  I have.  It's because of the very fact that I don't want to repeat having to do that which leads to Me preferring not to lie in the first place. 

The thing is, you don't really have a defense.  That's why you're having a difficult time holding your position.  You did lie to people.  Also, you did it in a calculating way.  You planned it out and executed it.

So, while I'm not saying you are a horrible person, or even that what you did was horrible, I sincerely believe that you used poor judgment in what you did.  It wasn't particularly something to be proud of, by any means.  Then, when some of us didn't pat you on the head for being deceptive, you started the victim thing.  I don't see any need to indulge you in that.  All that happened was that you got called on your actions.



I didn't mean to sound victim-y - that was just an oversight, since I was trying not to sound defensive and went too far in the other direction. So you've lied, and made mistakes, and you've decided not to, if you can help it. Consider this my first experiment with lying, as well as my first experiment with people on the internet. You definitely don't have to pat me on the head for it (I didn't expect too many pats on the head), but I just don't think it's a big enough deception to warrant being called a "fraud" and "completely untrustworthy." I'm sure as hell not going to do it again - if it makes you feel better, this thread alone has convinced me I'm not cut out for deception. The first time I deceive anybody and I announce it on a public forum for a bunch of people I respect to get mad at. I guess that really does make me a masochist [:)]



jujubeeMB -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:47:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Hey, didn't we already kiss and make up?



I believe we did, through the cunning use of humor [;)]



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 7:49:44 PM)

------------------------------------------------------
NEW BOOKS TITLES - Coming Fall 2010
------------------------------------------------------


  • Effective Email Marketing for Horny Wankers.
  • The Loosers Guide to Rebranding your Social Profile.
  • Tales of a Cyber Cross Dresser.
  • Online Confessional Strategies - Literally letting the world know.
  • Step By Step Cyber Suicide Now.





jujubeeMB -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 8:19:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

------------------------------------------------------
NEW BOOKS TITLES - Coming Fall 2010
------------------------------------------------------


  • Effective Email Marketing for Horny Wankers.
  • The Loosers Guide to Rebranding your Social Profile.
  • Tales of a Cyber Cross Dresser.
  • Online Confessional Strategies - Literally letting the world know.
  • Step By Step Cyber Suicide Now.





I'd like to pre-order the last, please [:)]



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 8:26:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

------------------------------------------------------
NEW BOOKS TITLES - Coming Fall 2010
------------------------------------------------------


  • Effective Email Marketing for Horny Wankers.
  • The Loosers Guide to Rebranding your Social Profile.
  • Tales of a Cyber Cross Dresser.
  • Online Confessional Strategies - Literally letting the world know.
  • Step By Step Cyber Suicide Now.





I'd like to pre-order the last, please [:)]


You'll have to sign a special waiver form for it.. :-)

[image]http://www.idude.net/stupid/csnow.jpg[/image]

Actually, I don't think things are so bad at the moment. You've come clean, cleared out your consious, shared with others some useful information. You're not the first person to set up a bogus account, cyber cross dress and see how things are from the other side of the gender coin.

It's not like you managed to lure some girl into some month long online romance/relationship, then rip out her heart in the end. No True or Real harm done to anybody.



LafayetteLady -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 8:41:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

I didn't mean to sound victim-y - that was just an oversight, since I was trying not to sound defensive and went too far in the other direction. So you've lied, and made mistakes, and you've decided not to, if you can help it. Consider this my first experiment with lying, as well as my first experiment with people on the internet. You definitely don't have to pat me on the head for it (I didn't expect too many pats on the head), but I just don't think it's a big enough deception to warrant being called a "fraud" and "completely untrustworthy." I'm sure as hell not going to do it again - if it makes you feel better, this thread alone has convinced me I'm not cut out for deception. The first time I deceive anybody and I announce it on a public forum for a bunch of people I respect to get mad at. I guess that really does make me a masochist [:)]


I agree with Red (go figure, right?). You weren't malicious, but it really wasn't a great experiment or discovery. Common sense should have told you the same thing. I'm surprised you didn't expect the responses though after your other post about living the fantasies thing. People here can be very judgemental and some will appear morally superior about the whole truth vs. lie thing. I've been called judgemental and morally superior myself around here more times than I can count. Some of the people who get like that it is easy to write off because well, they are a bunch of fucknuts anyway. Others, like LadyPact and DarkSteven are people who deserve the respect they have around here.

So your lesson should be the next time you do an experiment like that, don't share! Lol. Really though, don't let the harsh criticism get to you. You made a "oops" we all do from time to time. Live and learn.



LadyAngelika -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 8:57:11 PM)

Wow... this thread blossomed in the last 5 hours, just as I expected.

First of all, honestly jujubeeMB, LadyPact, juliaoceania and many others were right on the mark. And yes, you did come off as defensive. The thing is, as I mentioned to you back on page 1, it was one thing to be deceiptful. It was another thing to come here and announce it. At the bottom of page 1, you said you were ready for the flames you might get for your actions. Well chin up girl, and take it. Because just as I suspected, many people aren't impressed with your behaviour. Thought it might not have been malicious, it was deceiptful.

Secondly, would any of the women from the experiment chime in on the thread and say that they aren't upset or that you sent them an apology. I actually don't believe that you had the guts to let them down nicely and apologize.

Thirdly, I see no benefit to you posting the letters here. Maitresse Eden and I posted a thread 5 years ago of a model introductory letter and I still get it sent to me in my inbox until this day... and I'm the author! People who have trouble writing a good introduction letter should seek help, not steal one from someone else.

Fourthly, juliaoceania is on the note that this was not a research experiment. I mentioned on the first page that your methodology was not nearly well structure enough for this to be research. I don't believe you 100% results either. Why not call it what it was, a prank.

And one last thing. Please do not get defensive and throw back in people's faces "oh but it's like you never told a lie?!?". They didn't come on a message board bragging about a deceiptful act they just committed. You did. Live with the consequences like you said you would.

- LA



juliaoceania -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 9:09:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

And as far as 100% response, well, how the fuck can we trust her results when she is an admitted fraud, poser, and unethical.... and yes I will say that as someone who works with human subjects and needs internal review of any research I undertake, people who play with other people in this way to satisfy their own curiosity knowing what they are doing is wrong, well those people suck



Again, you've never told a minor lie ever in your life to anyone at any point? Because if you have, you might as well call yourself all the names you just called me. I think red - who still disagrees with me, I imagine - has already pointed out that she sees I wasn't doing this maliciously. And since she thought I was, initially, I hope that you can see that too.


You were not on the end of this lie, so therefore you are not the one that can determine how "little" it was, number one...

Number two, I have lied more times than I can count, but never in my life have I done so for no good fucking reason, with premeditation, and zero concern for those I may harm with my lies, and really the entire motivation was for your own shits and giggles...I think that sucks... my opinion

Lastly, do I think your sucky behavior makes you the worst excuse for a human being? No, I would not take it that far, but it is this type of behavior that makes people suspicious of those of us that do actual research with human beings. LadyAngelika pointed out, what you did was not an "experiment", and it should not be given any sort of credibility.. it was in fact a prank performed by a poser... nothing more.

Now take your flames for something that you know is wrong, and quit justifying it by bringing up my flaws, whether real or imagined.



AnimusRex -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 9:16:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood
To show it's not confined to the ladies. My most recent favorite:[/font]
hello sorry to bother you but i have been looking around on anouther site and have noticed something that really excites me and was wondering if you would help me with it?? I wish for some one to cum all over one of my pics all over my face ill even post it on my profile. will you please help this little slut out??



Man, where was this girl when I was a teenager? All I had back then was a three month old copy of my brother's Penthouse.



jujubeeMB -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 9:44:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You were not on the end of this lie, so therefore you are not the one that can determine how "little" it was, number one...

Number two, I have lied more times than I can count, but never in my life have I done so for no good fucking reason, with premeditation, and zero concern for those I may harm with my lies, and really the entire motivation was for your own shits and giggles...I think that sucks... my opinion

Lastly, do I think your sucky behavior makes you the worst excuse for a human being? No, I would not take it that far, but it is this type of behavior that makes people suspicious of those of us that do actual research with human beings. LadyAngelika pointed out, what you did was not an "experiment", and it should not be given any sort of credibility.. it was in fact a prank performed by a poser... nothing more.

Now take your flames for something that you know is wrong, and quit justifying it by bringing up my flaws, whether real or imagined.


Ok, look. I'm comfortable admitting what I've admitted, and I'm not bragging about anything, and I've taken a fair amount of heat for it - which is reasonable, and I've TAKEN it - but I'm not going to sit here and let a few people continue to exaggerate this to no end. You say that I did it for no "good fucking reason," and "for shits and giggles" which just isn't true, no matter how violently you say it. I did it for a reason that I thought was a decent enough reason to do it. You don't have to like it, and it certainly wasn't entirely unethical, but it was NOT some sort of evil prank.

I asked you about your relationship with lying to point out the absurd degree to which you went in your accusations of me, not to accuse you of anything. I assume you've got justifications for all your lies too, like every human being, and you think your justifications are better than mine, because they're yours. I would propose that intent is the determiner in such situations, and I can only speak for myself in this, but my intent was NOT malicious. I realized - somewhat after the fact - that I had probably made a mistake, but when all the responses I got after apologizing were amused and/or friendly, I relaxed and wanted to share what I'd discovered on the message boards. I knew I risked flames, but I also expected some people to understand where I was coming from, and they did.

You are NOT a victim in this situation - there are no victims, and you can either accept that or continue to believe that I'm wrong. Doesn't affect the truth of the matter. As for real experiments on human beings, I really hope they aren't in such weak standing that some crazy, misguided sub on a message board can actually cast doubts on them with one post.

I hope we can agree to disagree on the rest, and get over it.



LadyAngelika -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 9:49:52 PM)

jujubee, you did come here bragging. Just look at your OP: "I've just finished an experiment that I think had VERY interesting results, and I wanted to share."

And yes there are victims. I think the minute you give a sincere apology to this community and prove that you made things right with the others, the faster you will overcome this. No one made you confess this. You made this all public out of your own will and volition. Now deal with the mess you made graciously instead of being snarky.

- LA



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 10:01:33 PM)

Listening to NIN - Terrible Lies (live version) -
if only I had twitter I'd announce it to the world instead a mere lowly message board. I wonder how long before CM supports twitter?

Now bowing my head in a moment of prayer -
people forgive me for I have sinned.. Oh Hell with it.

The Truth of Deceiptful Actions

There are a number of things I have done that have been decieptful for a number of different reasons. There are moments when it's caused no harm and times when it has hurt somebody. There are moments when it was an effective tool at getting at "the truth" as well.

The truth be told for many people that engage in Decieptful actions, you tend to learn and grow from it even. There are many people that understand how a small innocent lie can blossom into an ugly mountain range and lies. The know first hand the shame/guilt and even the consequences that can be involved.

In some regards I've engaged in deceiptfulness in the past for exploration or entertainment reasons. Shall I dare endulge the minds that might really want to know? I'm certain somebody reading this post at this very moment, is formulating some mental image as to the nature of my past deceiptions.

Shall, I change the song and play "Sympathy for the Devil"... Please allow me to introduce myself...

However, that song does not begin cover the whole nature of my name nor the deceiptful games that I have played nor capable of playing.

Mind you I'm rather refrained, refined and wiser compared to the version of me in the past.

I did share ONE of many such experiences, on this very message board. It was a real time (not online) experience, where My name really was not my name, my age was not my age, and yeah, I was not meaning anybody any true or real harm. I'm making it a point to refrain from sharing the circumstances and conditions in this post (Curious I am with regards to the conclusions and judgements people might have without the Juicey details).

Also, deceiptfulness, does play a role in terms of practical jokes and good old fashioned Mind Fucks. In many regards Practical Jokes can turn into Hurtful or painful experiences. Perhaps more so compared to other things.

As I mentioned earlier, it can also be an effective tool at getting to the bottom of matters or what the Truth is. I know other people know or have some idea of what I'm talking about.

Also it's a tool that can be used for EMPATHY... GASP... you all may be wondering what KIND of MAD reasoning and Twisted Logic I'm presenting in this moment. Again, I'm certain that some people know without question what I'm talking about. While others are confused and lost like two peckered Billy Goats in a pig circus. Let me indulge the curious nature of the mind.

To be able to step into somebody else's shoes for a moment, to Role Play out what their Life is or might be, is being able to connect with that Person on a deeper and more Empathic Level. This concept is nothing new. In fact you have even probally seen this on TV. Bending Gender roles, Race Roles and etc... There's a new show where the CEO of major companies are going undercover to experience what it's like working for their Company as a lowly PeeOn.

I am speaking about deceiptfulness for the purpose to gain REAL and TRUE understanding and EMPATHY...

Given the nature of so many posts from men on the message boards complaining about How Nobody responds to their emails, and how nobody responds to their profiles and Other Similar yet different complaints. It's only natural that it sparks curosity in other people. It does or will sooner or later provoke thoughts about somebody taking a walk on the other side.

Now personally, and this is how I myself personally deal with or address the issue of deceiptful things. I tend to want to look under the hood at the motivations and intentions. I wish I could proclaim this as tool in my "Dominant Tool Bag", however rather it's a tool that is in my "Personal Tool Bag".

I am not perfect, I have engaged in deceiptful things, I may or may not again at some future date (probally will given the fact that I'm a human being).

It's my personal opinion, she was did what she did as a TOOL for EMPATHIC understanding, hence why she called it Research. Personal Research and exploration does not have to fall into the framework of scientific stadards (to which it's apparent some people have this notion that it should).

It's time for me to post this, wait for the Black SUV's to show up on my doorstep while holding tightly onto my Step By Step Cyber Suicide Book.



juliaoceania -> RE: An Experiment (2/6/2010 10:03:28 PM)

quote:

but it was NOT some sort of evil prank.


Creating a straw man... I never stated it was an "evil" prank...

quote:

I asked you about your relationship with lying to point out the absurd degree to which you went in your accusations of me,


I have no accusations against you, I am just addressing what you said you did...


quote:

I assume you've got justifications for all your lies too, like every human being, and you think your justifications are better than mine, because they're yours. I would propose that intent is the determiner in such situation


This thread isn't about me nor the lies I have committed... quit deflecting

quote:

I would propose that intent is the determiner in such situations, and I can only speak for myself in this, but my intent was NOT malicious.


I could care less what your motivations are.... the fact of the matter this wasn't an experiment, it was you attempting to satisfy your own curiosity at other people's expense... you wasted people's time without any sort of real excuse to do so other than you wanted to.

quote:

I realized - somewhat after the fact - that I had probably made a mistake, but when all the responses I got after apologizing were amused and/or friendly, I relaxed and wanted to share what I'd discovered on the message boards. I knew I risked flames, but I also expected some people to understand where I was coming from, and they did.


If that were true you would not be flaming me and accusing me of being just like you... which I am not.

quote:

You are NOT a victim in this situation - there are no victims, and you can either accept that or continue to believe that I'm wrong. Doesn't affect the truth of the matter. As for real experiments on human beings, I really hope they aren't in such weak standing that some crazy, misguided sub on a message board can actually cast doubts on them with

I can assure you if you had pulled that stunt on me I would not be emailing you back and saying "oh cool, no problem, I am glad that you are writing strangers and misrepresenting yourself, tell me what you find out!" I would be extremely annoyed at that deception and the wasting of my effort to respond to nonsense...

I think LadyPact is right too... you are behaving like a victim...even accusing me of saying things I never said...

Reiterating... I think your prank sucks...

I do not think it is an experiment

You are not the one that determines how little the lie is, others that you lied to determine this...

Those of us that work with human subjects have to undergo ethics training in several different ways before we are allowed to do what you flippantly refer to as an "experiment". The reason why? So that we do not pull stunts like this and call it science and then get the institution that we work for sued by people that find our lack of ethics troubling and harmful to them... if you had clue one about ethics of research you would not even be arguing with this, you would have underwent a multitude of case studies that researchers lied to subjects in   ways that they thought were not harmful but ended up being VERY harmful. This is why we do not decide on our own how to do research design... a panel has to approve it... because we are not accurate judges of what a little lie is and what a big one is...

I never said you were malicious, but your posts responding to those of us who have trouble with what you did just further highlight in my eyes why people like me have to jump through hoops to get any sort of innocuous research done....

Now you can keep on posting how I have wrongly beat you up on this message board... but I stand by everything I have said... just adding if you really understood how wrong it was, you would not keep defending it.



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