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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 10:49:28 AM   
Musicmystery


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http://www.answers.com/topic/relativity

http://www.answers.com/topic/quantum-mechanics



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/7/2010 10:52:51 AM >

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 10:52:09 AM   
kdsub


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You must have posted before you read my last post..we are saying the same thing... the speed of light is always based on and relative to the observer.

Butch


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 10:54:28 AM   
Musicmystery


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No. Speed is relative to the observer. The speed of light is constant.

That's why you can't travel at the speed of light and shoot a light beam to travel faster. It's a hard limit--time stops, and speed is irrelevant.

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 11:08:07 AM   
kdsub


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I like particle examples…say I have a very powerful flashlight…I aim it at the sky and move it in an arc of 3 feet.

Millions of light years away there are sensors on an equal distant arc that could see the light as it arced across the universe they would all see the light from the beginning of the arc to the end of the arc in the same time it took to move the three feet on earth. So the light would be moving faster then light in a lateral direction then forward.

There have been experiments where they have forced light to travel faster than the accepted speed using Brains experiments as he posted them… That is the whole point of new theory...it is just that and different then Einstein’s.

You can’t compare one theory to the other as I stated above because each theory has a different reality if true.

We are arguing the unknowable …I am admitting that and repeating theory not claiming it as truth…you are.

Butch


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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 11:12:41 AM   
DomImus


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"Okay. That means that...
our whole solar system...
could be, like...
one tiny atom in the fingernail
of some other giant being.
Could l buy some pot from you?"

Larry Kroger, Faber College




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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 11:19:56 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

There have been experiments where they have forced light to travel faster than the accepted speed using Brains experiments as he posted them… That is the whole point of new theory...it is just that and different then Einstein’s.


Show me. If they exist, I'd like to take a look.

Brain's post doesn't do that. Subatomic particles aren't subject to our local temporal/spatial limitations. That's the point. They aren't traveling space/time; they are vanishing and reappearing, a la Feinman diagrams.


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 11:49:11 AM   
myotherself


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

At a time when Einstein had gained international recognition, quantum theory culminated in the late 1920’s statement of the Uncertainty Principle, which says that the more precisely the position of a particle is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa. The above phrasing of the principle is a succinct version of the mathematically precise uncertainty relation that Heisenberg published in 1927. Since the momentum of a particle is the product of its mass and velocity, the principle is sometimes stated differently, however, its meaning remains the same: The act of measuring one magnitude of a particle, be it its mass, its velocity, or its position, causes the other magnitudes to blur. This is not due to imprecise measurements. Technology is advanced enough to hypothetically yield correct measurements. The blurring of these magnitudes is a fundamental property of nature
 
 
Gross mistatement?..... really?  More of a paraphrase.  Of course I am sure that along with economics your field of study is also Quantum Physics.


Jeff


Thanks Jeff for your clarification

As Jeff said, it's not a gross mis-statement in any way, shape or form. It was perhaps a little clumsy and imprecise, but not wrong. I am a physicist and mathematician, and spent quite some time working with quantum particles and, in particular, looking at the impact of measurement on quantum states (among other stuff)

I tend to liken it to measuring how fast water is flowing in a pipe by sticking in a measuring probe. The larger the probe, the more precise your measurement BUT the more you are impacting the flow of the water. So what you are measuring is the flow of the water in the presence of the probe, not just the flow of the water. You could, of course, use a smaller probe but this is likely to be less precise than a larger probe, so although you are reducing the impact of the probe you are reducing the accuracy of your measurement too.

At a quantum level the probes (for want of a better word) that measure the quantum states, spins, etc would have to introduce an effect into the system which is (preferably) negligible compared to what is being measured. Not an easy task, although every year technology improves so, in time, who knows?

And of course, there's the quantum effect that Jeff mentioned - you look too hard at one parameter and everything else blurs around it. You can measure spin, but not energy, for example. If you focus on energy, then spin becomes impossible to measure accurately.

If there is a god, then s/he's got one HELL of a sense of humour!

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 11:53:09 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself
If there is a god, then s/he's got one HELL of a sense of humour!



LOL, yeah.... aske Newton.... everything was fine for almost 200 years and then...........FUCKERS!


Jeff

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:00:25 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

There have been experiments where they have forced light to travel faster than the accepted speed using Brains experiments as he posted them… That is the whole point of new theory...it is just that and different then Einstein’s.


Show me. If they exist, I'd like to take a look.

Brain's post doesn't do that. Subatomic particles aren't subject to our local temporal/spatial limitations. That's the point. They aren't traveling space/time; they are vanishing and reappearing, a la Feinman diagrams.




I will look for that experiment but until then...this is a postulation and an answer by Einstien about the speed of light.

Special Relativity
Another assumption on the laws of physics made by the SI definition of the metre is that the theory of relativity is correct. It is a basic postulate of the theory of relativity that the speed of light is constant. This can be broken down into two parts:

The speed of light is independent of the motion of the observer. The speed of light does not vary with time or place.
To state that the speed of light is independent of the velocity of the observer is very counterintuitive. Some people even refuse to accept this as a logically consistent possibility, but in 1905 Einstein was able to show that it is perfectly consistent if you are prepared to give up assumptions about the absolute nature of space and time.

In 1879 it was thought that light must propagate through a medium in space just as sound propagates through the air and other substances. The two scientists Michelson and Morley set up an experiment to attempt to detect the ether, by observing relative changes in the speed of light as the Earth changed its direction of travel relative to the sun during the year. To their surprise, they failed to detect any change in the speed of light.

Butch

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:02:18 PM   
Musicmystery


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That's just what I told you earlier--the speed of light is a constant.

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:08:44 PM   
Jeffff


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This is not directed at butch..... but I have noticed the speed of bullshit can vary greatly.

I should publish!

Jeff

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:12:01 PM   
myotherself


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omg Jeff - with that sense of humour you just HAVE to be a closet physicist!!

Actually I wanted to correct a misconception about this whole teleportation of quantum particles merging into Star Trekian teleport systems. I spent some time talking with colleagues of Charlie Bennett, and they got really pissed off when people talked about teleporting quantum states. What they actually did was to influence distant particles to accurately mimic the state of particles at the source.

If we extrapolate that to the Star Trek system, then what you're actually doing is influencing existing distant quantum particles to mimic those of the human body on the Starship Enterprise (or Voyager...I'm a Voyager fan myself). So in actuality, 'foreign' quantum particles are being used to recreate the original.

Does that mean that it is possible for two identical people or objects to exist at the same time, with exactly the same composition? Would the existence of the 'image' cause the original to cease to exist? (which is what appears to happen on Star Trek)...or have the clever but unscrupulous Federation scientists decided that having two quantum-identical entities may potentially cause all sorts of unstable quantum events around them that they actually kill the person on the transporter once his/her information has been transmitted?

Captain Kirk is a murderer!!!!

Possibly.



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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:12:22 PM   
Musicmystery


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Among ideologues, nothing is faster than the speed of darkness.


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:14:28 PM   
Musicmystery


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Do you have a cat that used to belong to Schrodinger?



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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:16:45 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

That's just what I told you earlier--the speed of light is a constant.


And I told you light was independent of movement...which would mean the light shown from a 400 mile per hour plane would NOT be 400 miles per hour slower but the same speed relative to the plane... I told you some posts ago that we were saying the same thing but you keep denying it. Light turned on at the speed of light …if it were possible to go that fast would still leave the light at a relative speed of light just as you were standing still…This does not go against his theory

You said light is not relative when it is to motion...and it still does not go against Einstein’s theory.

Butch


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:18:17 PM   
Jeffff


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Oh dude!... I am stealing that!

I once had a friend, who when we were all very stoned, could make an excellent argument that a light bulb did not emit light, but sucked away all the darkness. Just like an air conditioner removes heat and humidity.

We were young and stoned.... but damn if it didn't make sense at the time..:)

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:20:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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Butch,

If what you say were true, then the speed of light would no longer be a constant. It would be relative.

But the speed of light IS a constant. It's why it's a reliable means of measurement. It's even why spectrum shift works.

You keep missing that time/speed is irrelevant at the speed of light. More speed has no meaning at that speed.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/7/2010 12:21:12 PM >

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:23:47 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Butch,

If what you say were true, then the speed of light would no longer be a constant. It would be relative.

But the speed of light IS a constant. It's why it's a reliable means of measurement. It's even why spectrum shift works.

You keep missing that time/speed is irrelevant at the speed of light. More speed has no meaning at that speed.




It is constant from the point of origin despite the speed of that point... read all of Einstein’s theory it supports just that. I have been saying that all along. That makes it relative to the motion of the object.

Butch


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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:30:08 PM   
kdsub


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I'll post the below again...it matches your mindset...

"To state that the speed of light is independent of the velocity of the observer is very counterintuitive. Some people even refuse to accept this as a logically consistent possibility, but in 1905 Einstein was able to show that it is perfectly consistent if you are prepared to give up assumptions about the absolute nature of space and time. "


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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:31:43 PM   
Jeffff


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But Einsteins thinking, like Newtons, doesn't work at the sub atomic level, Thats what, to use a technical term, fucks everybody up.


Jef

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