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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:36:11 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

But Einsteins thinking, like Newtons, doesn't work at the sub atomic level, Thats what, to use a technical term, fucks everybody up.


Jef


Jef… if you read what I said in my posts you would see I was agreeing with you... you can't compare too theories which demand different realities and claim they are both true as stated.

Like I said there is a good chance we as a race will never understand the universe…our minds may be just to small…even collectively to understand. That’s where the theory and philosophy come together.

Butch


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:38:54 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Butch,

If what you say were true, then the speed of light would no longer be a constant. It would be relative.

But the speed of light IS a constant. It's why it's a reliable means of measurement. It's even why spectrum shift works.

You keep missing that time/speed is irrelevant at the speed of light. More speed has no meaning at that speed.




It is constant from the point of origin despite the speed of that point... read all of Einstein’s theory it supports just that. I have been saying that all along. That makes it relative to the motion of the object.

Butch



OK, I've been trying to ignore the patronizing in favor of a discussion.

Look--to accept your vision, which you can't support (or at least haven't dug it up yet--I'll be interested to see it if you actually come up with anything), the speed of light would exceed the the speed of light relative to an outside observer. That would make the speed of light no longer a constant, but relative.

You simply keep repeating the same thing, still ignoring the point that time (and speed) become meaningless at the speed of light.

Incidentally, gravity/mass also changes, meaning nothing can escape.

Ignoring it doesn't make it untrue.

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:42:19 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I'll post the below again...it matches your mindset...

"To state that the speed of light is independent of the velocity of the observer is very counterintuitive. Some people even refuse to accept this as a logically consistent possibility, but in 1905 Einstein was able to show that it is perfectly consistent if you are prepared to give up assumptions about the absolute nature of space and time. "


Read this.

It says that the speed of light is independent of the velocity of the observer.

That's why it's a constant.

That's why it seems counterintuitive--as that's exactly the problem you're having with this.

And Einstein demonstrated it's nonetheless true, because space/time is NOT absolute.

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:43:06 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		To quote George Carlin, "Can God make a rock so big that He Himself can't lift it?"

That's kinda how the speed of light works.


Jeff

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:46:01 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

But Einsteins thinking, like Newtons, doesn't work at the sub atomic level, Thats what, to use a technical term, fucks everybody up.


Jef


Except that photons are subatomic particles.

That they have mass, and hence that light waves bend around gravity, got Einstein his early recognition, when a solar eclipse and some apparently displaced stars proved he was right.


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:49:55 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		Which only confuses everything more. String theory and it's 11 dimensions? Maybe, but it feels like a reach to me.

If I knew the answer, I would have my Noble by now.

Then I would get mocked here for bowing to the King....;)

Jeff


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:57:03 PM   
Musicmystery


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 12:59:50 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		Oh yeah?... you can find Me and My Noble in Princeton.... banign' coeds!............


Jeff

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 1:02:41 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		OH! You mean liberal pussy in the sense of a large quantity!

Carry on then.



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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 1:19:22 PM   
myotherself


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

OH! You mean liberal pussy in the sense of a large quantity!

Carry on then.





Is that what Schroedinger called his cat?



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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 1:23:47 PM   
Musicmystery


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 2:55:03 PM   
myotherself


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 2:58:27 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Butch,

If what you say were true, then the speed of light would no longer be a constant. It would be relative.

But the speed of light IS a constant. It's why it's a reliable means of measurement. It's even why spectrum shift works.

You keep missing that time/speed is irrelevant at the speed of light. More speed has no meaning at that speed.




It is constant from the point of origin despite the speed of that point... read all of Einstein’s theory it supports just that. I have been saying that all along. That makes it relative to the motion of the object.

Butch



OK, I've been trying to ignore the patronizing in favor of a discussion.

Look--to accept your vision, which you can't support (or at least haven't dug it up yet--I'll be interested to see it if you actually come up with anything), the speed of light would exceed the the speed of light relative to an outside observer. That would make the speed of light no longer a constant, but relative.

You simply keep repeating the same thing, still ignoring the point that time (and speed) become meaningless at the speed of light.

Incidentally, gravity/mass also changes, meaning nothing can escape.

Ignoring it doesn't make it untrue.



I've been quoting the same person as you Einstein.
Now do you think he knows what he is saying or not?

Butch


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 3:03:44 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Didn't Einstein essentially prove cold fusion wasn't possible?

I could be wrong on that. Or maybe just that it wasn't likely.


Music, I think that Einstein said that relativity could be "bent" or "warped." Also there is something called "wormholes" through space and time.

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 3:07:49 PM   
zenny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Unfortunately, I lived in Utah when the cold fusion hoax came out, and I have a hard time taking breakthroughs like this seriously afterward.  I'll have to review it when I'm in a more objective mindset.


Might want to look again. The Navy has been 'researching' cold fusion and apparently found a way to make it work.. ironically using the same model and techniques as those first. It's interesting to note this was done around when their patent expired.

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 3:20:06 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Below is the experiment I was thinking of...but even they say it is a partial illusion.

http://www.azom.com/news.asp?newsID=20495

Butch


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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 3:25:27 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

At a time when Einstein had gained international recognition, quantum theory culminated in the late 1920’s statement of the Uncertainty Principle, which says that the more precisely the position of a particle is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa. The above phrasing of the principle is a succinct version of the mathematically precise uncertainty relation that Heisenberg published in 1927. Since the momentum of a particle is the product of its mass and velocity, the principle is sometimes stated differently, however, its meaning remains the same: The act of measuring one magnitude of a particle, be it its mass, its velocity, or its position, causes the other magnitudes to blur. This is not due to imprecise measurements. Technology is advanced enough to hypothetically yield correct measurements. The blurring of these magnitudes is a fundamental property of nature
 
 
Gross mistatement?..... really?  More of a paraphrase.  Of course I am sure that along with economics your field of study is also Quantum Physics.


Jeff


Too bad your source carries the same misconception. It has nothing to do with "measurement blurring" anything. The attributes of quantum level matter are ALWAYS "blurred" in their natural because they are a probability (wave) function. They are in all states at all times, just with varying probability. The only thing that observation can do is remove "blurriness", not increase it, via the collapse of the wave function into discrete properties.

Actually I did plan on majoring in Physics early on and had 6 semesters of it (4 required, 2 elective). I realized however that my talents lie in the practical, not the theoretical.

BTW, the above is so far off it even talks about "velocity" which is not defined for quantum particles.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 2/7/2010 3:42:59 PM >

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 4:07:12 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Quantum entanglement is a nice theoretical problem with no practical application.

Here's one currently-existing, currently-sold-for-profit quantum cryptography product.  Quantum entanglement is the underpinning of quantum cryptography.

http://www.idquantique.com/index.php/component/content/article/44.html

There are several other companies in the biz as well, and they each manufacture one or more products.

All currently-known advantages that quantum computers have over classical computers are as a result of quantum entanglement.  In fact, one of the main open theoretical questions in quantum information processing is: "Prove, yes or no, whether entanglement is the only thing that makes quantum computation special."  I thought about this problem myself -- and got absolutely nowhere.


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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 5:26:27 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: myotherself

...and the problem with working at the quantum level is that the act of observation influences the action...


A standard, but gross, misinterpretation of the uncertainty principle.

Brain, why not post on something from this century? Quantum entanglement is a nice theoretical problem with no practical application.

The uncertainty principle states that some physical properties can not be precisely known at the same time.  The common example is position and momentum; you can know momentum precisely or position precisely, but not both at the same time with the same precision.

Remarks about observation tend to go back to Schrodinger's "Cat in a Box" experiment.  The cat exists is neither alive nor dead until you open the box and observe it.

Observability's an issue in a lot of electronics; many measurements can disrupt the system or circuit you're trying to observe.

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RE: Physicist Discovers How to Teleport Energy - 2/7/2010 5:28:15 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

But Einsteins thinking, like Newtons, doesn't work at the sub atomic level, Thats what, to use a technical term, fucks everybody up.


Jef


Except that photons are subatomic particles.

That they have mass, and hence that light waves bend around gravity, got Einstein his early recognition, when a solar eclipse and some apparently displaced stars proved he was right.



Hi Tim--

Photons have no mass, though they do have momentum.

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