LadyAngelika
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ORIGINAL: Loki45
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Loki, I will start by saying that though I don't know much about you, I take offense to some of the statements that I've seen you write about women on this thread. That said, you are far from being the only one who makes statements that offend me.
Let me start by saying you should only take offense at what I say, if you know in your heart I mean *you*. If you are secure in yourself enough to know that the things I say do not apply to you, then you needn't worry about being offended. It's why the female friends I have are my friends. They know I can bash "typical chicks" all day long and they know in their heart, they have none of the qualities I am ranting about and thus, I don't mean them. In fact, some of my friends have become my friends because they share my views. They are the ones who feel more 'at home' hanging out with the guys than with the vindictive, back-stabbing bitches they've come to know in their own gender.
In other, more succinct, words -- you should only take offense at my words, if you're saying I should take offense at the things I see written about 'men' on this board. Because as I've pointed out before, the posts I make are almost always directly in response to some generalization, joke, or stereotype about men that I see here. I don't take offense to those, mind you, but I *will* make an appearance and make a similar generalization, joke, or stereotype about women and watch the drama unfold -- it's highly entertaining.
I see what you are saying. However, when I say that I'm offended, it isn't because I myself feel targeted. I can take offense to a slight against a black man even if I'm not a black man.
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I myself have been the victim of violent statements by male bullies on these boards and have been told by other participants of the boards to suck it up because the bullies were only kidding. I guess I don't subscribe to their brand of humour, and for the record, neither do many who CMail me to congratulate me for standing up for myself but keep silent on the boards in order to not be the next target. The only reason I illustrate this is that it is still ok for some men to bash some women. I've said it many times that we tend to notice what hits most home to us.
I have yet to see what you refer to in this instance, except for perhaps domiguy who everyone knows is just being outlandish and funny.
I am not only talking about him. Another one was finally banned. And no, not everyone knows that he is just outlandish and funny. Believe me. His own "friends" have written to me saying that they find he goes overboard. And there are many who don't speak up to him because they see what happens when they do. Take Panda for instance. And I think having been one of the people he has the most viciously attacked here, I might have a very different perspective.
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The simple truth is this is the internet. People will say what they will say. It's up to you whether or not it will affect you. It's up to you whether they will have the power to upset you or not. In my case, no one has that power here. People here who see me argue assume that I am getting riled up. I'm not. I never am. I am usually smiling ear-to-ear when I am replying. I enjoy watching those who are obviously getting riled at me, because it means I have achieved my goal. I gave them a taste of what I saw them doing.....and they didn't like it. Perhaps they will remember for next time. It really destroys the anti-sexism argument when a person is being sexist themselves, don't you think?
Oh I did get riled up the first few times. Now I actually don't read most of his posts nor do I let him engage me. Some stuff he says is ok. He's no dumbass. Most bullies aren't.That also doesn't mean that I'll sit quietly and take it. I does mean that I will not stoop down to his level. I did twice. I won't a third time.
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
It will however agree that it has become more socially acceptable for women to get angry and make violent comments towards men, something associated with taking power back. That said, I don't see how acting violently gives us any power. Resorting to violence to me is a sign of defeat. I do not believe that violence, verbal or physical, or vengeful action is the answer in any situation.
Exactly. I don't think it should be socially acceptable for women to do that, or men for that matter. But in the last couple of decades, women are congratulated for resorting to violence and men are called abusers. I can count on one hand the number of episodes of COPS I've seen where the man is not arrested and the woman is during a domestic dispute. Look at Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond....hell even Friends. The women in those shows all have their 'little things' for which they smack their male counterparts for. When they do, you hear the audience cheer or laugh. Let that happen in reverse on a show. People will cry out for justice and call for boycotts and firing of the writers. I simply don't understand that. Women, by and large, are losing their femininity and ladylike nature in order to, for lack of a better description, become men.
This is an interesting point you bring. My last partner was not raised in the Western world. One night when we were watching TV, he looked at me and said "Why do all the women on TV appear superior and all the men appear as dumbasses?" He was referring to Homer, Family Guy, and the ones you mentioned. Now you have to remember, our dynamic had me as a dominant woman, but I never, ever once treated him as stupid. I couldn't... he was a genius actually ;-)
I agreed with him. I get so many emails from men saying they are worthless, useless, etc and that isn't how I view a submissive man. But a lot of what has been done in the name of taking back power has emasculated men. Another bunch of them got violent. A whole bunch got bitter. This isn't the solution.
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I understand that you have a different view of what is a Lady than others here. Actually, so do I.
Actually, our views appear to be similar (though in the other thread we differ on the ability to be demure *and* strong, but whatever).
Maybe it's a question of semantics. In my view, a demure woman would not speak out for injustice or fight for what she believed in. But I've seen so many Ladies that I've respected who did, without having to lower themselves to violence and trashiness. But not my definition of demure. Demure, for me, takes away my voice. A Lady should have a voice and use it.
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I don't know you, but I don't think you are a woman hater.
Thanks. That makes 2 of us. ;) Seriously though, I had one girl on here tell me that I couldn't possibly be a mysogynist if I didn't hate all women. I never gave myself that label -- I just took ownership of it. I took its power away. You can't shut my mouth by calling me sexist or chauvanist or even mysogynist. Only I know what's in my heart and mind and no one else. People can and will think what they want and I will still get up and go to work and carry on with my life, stress free.
People assume so much about me as well, and sometimes I have a giggle at it. People do like to project. But maybe it's time to release the ownership of that label. I don't think it is shining the best light on you.
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It does crack me up though, you can see the 'haters' really come down on me by attacking my mother and saying she didn't love me and that's why I am how I am. It gets amusing, though sometimes a little sad...for them.
Projection. It's not pretty. In their defense, they are trying to make sense of you, they just aren't going about it the right way.
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I think that the kind of woman you are looking for is rare and the women you meet here do not match up to your idea of an ideal woman for you (for the record, I can say that about the majority of the submissive men who CMail me).
She's as rare as adamantium. (In case you're not a comic-book nerd, adamantium is the indestructable metal that covers Wolverine's skeleton and his claws. It's also...a FICTIONAL metal, as it doesn't exist in reality.)
I know Wolverine! So if I hear you well, the woman you are looking for doesn't exist? I'm not trying to project, I'm trying to understand.
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
That said, it would be wise for you to let the women here be who they are even if they don't fit into your ideal of a woman. You can have faith that one who does will eventually show up. While you might not agree with the way the present themselves or act, they do have the right to be who they are and some men love them this way. And I'm not suggesting that you have to take any kind of verbal abuse, but if you dish it out, prepare to receive it. Some of these ladies have claws.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying people can't be the way they want. I don't try and tell people what they can and can't say. I simply reply in a fashion that I feel appropriate and watch the fireworks. As I said, I find it amusing. It's *most* amusing during those instances where I have the opportunity to make almost an exact duplicate of their stereotype or joke, but in reverse and watch how it ruffles their feathers. They simply don't see that all I did was take what they said and reverse it. If I have to carry the sexist, chauvanist, mysogynist label with them, so be it. It doesn't bother me one way or the other.
Alright. I personally have a hard time seeing strife and discord as entertaining. I mean don't get me wrong, I like dark humour and satire, but I have limits to the amount of negativity I want around me.
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There are some here who regard me something akin to domiguy.
Not even close, and that's a compliment.
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Though even those people can misunderstand the nature of my posts/mindset during a debate and urge me to stop lest I truly fit the sexist, chauvanist, mysogynist label.
It goes back to the old saying -- "Your true friends won't believe the bullshit thrown around about you. Those who believe the bullshit aren't your true friends anyway."
Makes sense. I do however care about the image I project. That might be my professional side kicking in. Or maybe my mom always being concerned about what the neighbours thought ;-)
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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Here's hoping this posts bridges some gaps.
No gaps to bridge. I think you understand. A select few do, many do not.
I don't always understand, but I try. Thanks for your kind reply.
- LA
Edited because it's late and when it's late, my English gets crummy ;-)
< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/14/2010 8:41:41 PM >
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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove
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