RE: Talking Women

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:29:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream Dear Lord can we TALK about something else besides self-professed a-holes, the vibe is so nanananana. Let's talk about, um.... what? Got any thing you wanna talk about? Food? That is what the random stupidity section is for. I actually appreciate the conversation that is going on now. It is food for the mind. - LA

Aylee -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:33:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level I don't either, Aylee. There are geeks that are not assholes, and assholes that are not geeks. If I understood (and right now, it highly possible I did NOT), Loki is saying that because he was a geek in school, that lead him to things happening, that made him decide to no longer care about how others thought of him. This, in turn, led to him behaving in ways that society, in general, may consider assholish. For what it's worth: I do not always disagree with Loki. I think.... I just tend to see much less of the things he sees. But are there a lot of women that are horrible, hypocritical, shrews? Sure. Plenty of them on CM. Hell, there are some women I generally like, that flirt with that kind of behaviour. The thing is, I see the same (although manifesting in different ways, at times), from men. I think (guess?) that he just seems to respond more strongly in response to the women doing these things, or so it seems. Neither gender has a monopoly on manipulation, lies and self-absorbtion. What Loki dosen't realize is that because he IS so emotionally screwed up, he WILL eventually attract emotionally screwed up mates - the kind that will take advantage of him and fuck him over. He is SO invested in his own rationalizations that he feels compelled to tell us why we, and millions of women out there, are wrong about males in particular. He takes ONE perspective and some how warps it into some sweeping assertion that it is intended to represent all women's opinions. And why, WHY this insane, vein-popping determination that it's impossible, IMPOSSIBLE that a female who actually has a life and two firing brain cells to rub together would POSSIBLY have anything pointedly critical to say about males?

LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:37:44 PM)
First Loki, thank you for your answers. Since we aren't in a dialogue anymore, I'm going to springboard off this post. quote: I've enjoyed this part of the discussion (LA, LaT, and yourself) because I am scratching my head about the same thing. You've chosen to be an asshole as you term it, based mostly on past experiences, and slightly on having grown up a geek (in respect that you don't care about other people's opinions). You seem fixed on this path, but I don't see the payback. This actually really hurts me to hear. Honestly. I know it sounds cliché but I'm thinking Grinch, Scrooge.. the type of character that was so hurt by the world that they shut them out. I was not a geek in highschool, but I definitely was different. I was sort of the outcast that was mysteriously cool punk rock chick that fell into the popular girl"s good graces but never really felt like one of them. I did close myself off emotionally from people a lot when I was younger but it took a lot of courage to take the walls down, at least have retracting walls to let certain people in. It is scary as hell to do, I know. But I will tell you that it is worth it. quote: For example, you could meet, or may have already met someone who's a 95% match, but the greeting you gave them turned them off. I did this for so long with my "I don't need anyone" attitude. quote: It's almost like your ideal match will tolerate any and all asshole behavior from you. What would a woman look forward to in such a relationship? Would these traits overcome being on the receiving end of perpetual assholery? To be completely honest, I think that any woman who would actually settle for an asshole is not the kind of woman you would want to be with. Call it a hunch... Btw Loki, I thank you for being so candid. I know we take a risk when do. - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:39:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy I've enjoyed this part of the discussion (LA, LaT, and yourself) Ditto. Interesting. I did as well, however I just cannot equate geek with asshole automatically. Probably because that is not what he said. - LA

Level -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:41:55 PM)
I don't think he sees it as "all women"; he's mentioned female friends that get him, and his response to LA indicated that he did not include her, for instance. When he posts the sweeping comments, I think it's his way of countering what he sees as sweeping jabs at men. Tit for tat. I'm not defending him; for one thing, he doesn't need me to do so, also, I don't always agree with his comments, or the way he presents them. Sometimes he makes valid points.

Arpig -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:49:47 PM)
personally I enjoy women who talk. One of the highlights of my week is when I drop the kids off at the ex's, we have dinner and talk...its pleasant and refreshing.

Aylee -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:49:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level I don't think he sees it as "all women"; he's mentioned female friends that get him, and his response to LA indicated that he did not include her, for instance. When he posts the sweeping comments, I think it's his way of countering what he sees as sweeping jabs at men. Tit for tat. I'm not defending him; for one thing, he doesn't need me to do so, also, I don't always agree with his comments, or the way he presents them. Sometimes he makes valid points. My issue is his broad sweeping opinions that have NO scholarship behind them. For instince regarding gendered economic inequity. Another is the idea that women are not as reliable as men based on his office and the snowstorm. Previously there was the whole breastfeeding issue. It is ironic however that he uses a radical feminist tatic in regards to "claiming" terms such as misogynist. He really should read some Mary Daly. [:)]

LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:57:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level I don't think he sees it as "all women"; he's mentioned female friends that get him, and his response to LA indicated that he did not include her, for instance. When he posts the sweeping comments, I think it's his way of countering what he sees as sweeping jabs at men. Tit for tat. I'm not defending him; for one thing, he doesn't need me to do so, also, I don't always agree with his comments, or the way he presents them. Sometimes he makes valid points. I agree with all of this Level. I doubt Loki and I will always see eye to eye on things . But I treated him with consideration and respect and he returned the same to me. That is a lot more than I can say for many people I meet on and off these boards. - LA

Level -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:57:31 PM)
Arpig: my best friend is a woman, and I cherish little more than talking to her. Good conversation is good conversation, and I'll take it where I find it! Aylee: I tend to agree; I have no stats to back up anything I say, I only have what I see in my day to day life. Who is Mary Daly? Is she hot? [:D]

LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 5:58:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig personally I enjoy women who talk. One of the highlights of my week is when I drop the kids off at the ex's, we have dinner and talk...its pleasant and refreshing. Guys who date me tend to like women who can talk intelligently and from the heart. I also can get kind of silly chatty when I'm tired or wired, but according to those who fell under my spell, that too is endearing. - LA

Level -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:01:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: Level I don't think he sees it as "all women"; he's mentioned female friends that get him, and his response to LA indicated that he did not include her, for instance. When he posts the sweeping comments, I think it's his way of countering what he sees as sweeping jabs at men. Tit for tat. I'm not defending him; for one thing, he doesn't need me to do so, also, I don't always agree with his comments, or the way he presents them. Sometimes he makes valid points. I agree with all of this Level. I doubt Loki and I will always see eye to eye on things . But I treated him with consideration and respect and he returned the same to me. That is a lot more than I can say for many people I meet on and off these boards. - LA I noticed that, and that is one of the things that I enjoyed about the conversation, LA. Good stuff.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:03:00 PM)
quote: Aylee: I tend to agree; I have no stats to back up anything I say, I only have what I see in my day to day life. And that is true of most who post information on the Web and sadly in a lot of academia too! - LA

Loki45 -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:04:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse My apologies. I misread your words to mean that you were using the geek aspects as a reason for the asshole feature. It is unfortunate that you have allowed a few bad relationship choices to change your personality so dramatically. The positive is that you are quite comfortable with your asshole-ness. Even appear to embrace it. Which would cause an armchair psychiatrist to wonder if it hasn't simply become a very convenient armour against future bad relationship choices. Quite possible. But we'll never know. The irony is that since I became an asshole, my prospects have increased dramatically. Which is another fact that frustrates the hell out of me. When I was a nice guy -- no one gave me the time of day. As an asshole who clearly does not want a relationship.....prospects abound. It's like a memo was sent out -- "Flirt with him now!!!"

Level -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:05:49 PM)
Now, LA, keep in mind that I'm still usually right, even without statistics. [8D]

Aylee -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:12:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Aylee: I tend to agree; I have no stats to back up anything I say, I only have what I see in my day to day life. Who is Mary Daly? Is she hot? [:D] Level, Dr. Daly died in January at the age of 81, so I suppose if you are into corpses. A quickie from wiki. . . Daly’s Gyn/Ecology: The Metaethics of Radical Feminism (1978) argues that men throughout history have sought to oppress women. In this book she moves beyond her previous thoughts on the history of patriarchy to the focus on the actual practices that, in her view, perpetuate patriarchy, which she calls a religion. Now, keep in mind that she did later update the book with a new forward. However, from the book: “On a practical, tactical level women are using new words and transforming/re-calling meanings of old words. . . Our clothing is useful for guerrilla tactics in situations of confrontation” (Daly 340). Women who break though the imprisoning walls of the Playboys’ Playground are entering a process which is our happening/happiness. This is Paradise beyond the boundaries of "paradise." Since our passage into this process requires making breaks in the walls, it means setting free the fair game, breaking the rules of the games, breaking the names of the games. Breaking through the foreground which is the Playboys’ Playground means letting out the bunnies, the bitches, the beavers, the squirrels, the chicks, the pussycats, the cows, the nags, the foxy ladies, the old bats and biddies, so they can at last begin naming themselves (Daly 7).

sexyred1 -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 The more succinct answer is -- I'm an asshole because I'm an asshole. I don't care what you think of my being an asshole because I grew up a geek and never cared what anyone's opinion of me is. Quite an interesting statement. Yes, it is. And I have some advice for everyone concerned: when a guy tells you he is an asshole, you seriously need to believe him. I have met a few guys in my life who were bad boys. I have actually never known any "geeks" who were assholes because they were usually the smarter guys. The bad boy self proclaimed assholes were the ones who treated everyone around them badly, even waiters and waitresses for example, who did alot of fucked up things and always, always, ALWAYS when questioned on why they behaved the way they did, said, "Well, I TOLD you I was an asshole and you stayed with me." Which demonstrates two things: 1. When someone admits and seemingly embraces being an asshole, it is convenient because then they do not need to take ownership of anything they do wrong and everyone around them, including YOU, is wrong. The entire world is out to get them, they think, so they retaliate by being assholes on purpose instead of looking inward. 2. Women should stay the hell away from asshole guys. Oh, and should someone say women can be assholes, of course women could do the same, but I never yet heard a woman say she was an asshole and be proud of it. Instead, most women I know own up to their past mistakes and try to fix themselves, instead of blaming others and being victims.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:17:59 PM)
quote: I never yet heard a woman say she was an asshole and be proud of it I could introduce you to a few who are bitches and proud of it ;-) - LA

sexyred1 -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:20:19 PM)
LA, I think when a woman says she is a bitch, it can mean a few things. 1. She thinks she has to be that way to get through life 2. She is kidding. 3. She thinks that men like women who are bitches.

Level -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:22:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Level Aylee: I tend to agree; I have no stats to back up anything I say, I only have what I see in my day to day life. Who is Mary Daly? Is she hot? [:D] Level, Dr. Daly died in January at the age of 81, so I suppose if you are into corpses. Well, she wouldn't be talkative (keeping in the spirit of the thread). quote: A quickie from wiki. . . Daly’s Gyn/Ecology: The Metaethics of Radical Feminism (1978) argues that men throughout history have sought to oppress women. In this book she moves beyond her previous thoughts on the history of patriarchy to the focus on the actual practices that, in her view, perpetuate patriarchy, which she calls a religion. Now, keep in mind that she did later update the book with a new forward. However, from the book: “On a practical, tactical level women are using new words and transforming/re-calling meanings of old words. . . Our clothing is useful for guerrilla tactics in situations of confrontation” (Daly 340). Women who break though the imprisoning walls of the Playboys’ Playground are entering a process which is our happening/happiness. This is Paradise beyond the boundaries of "paradise." Since our passage into this process requires making breaks in the walls, it means setting free the fair game, breaking the rules of the games, breaking the names of the games. Breaking through the foreground which is the Playboys’ Playground means letting out the bunnies, the bitches, the beavers, the squirrels, the chicks, the pussycats, the cows, the nags, the foxy ladies, the old bats and biddies, so they can at last begin naming themselves (Daly 7). I hate much of academia. Doesn't mean they're wrong, they just seem hell bent of speaking mumbo jumbo. What was she getting at, and how does it apply to Loki?

LadyAngelika -> RE: Talking Women (2/15/2010 6:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 LA, I think when a woman says she is a bitch, it can mean a few things. 1. She thinks she has to be that way to get through life 2. She is kidding. 3. She thinks that men like women who are bitches. And some are just bitches and proud of it. Trust me. - LA

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