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RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:26:41 PM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:



Mind you, none of this has naught to do with me because I am not seeking a dom here... I actually like the people that post on this site....But when I do seek to satisfy my lustful desires I certainly have not felt a victim for it, in fact I would venture to guess I am not the only female that feels that the paternalistic view of female sexuality has kept us from enjoying our bodies in a way that is healthy, that has made some women take risks with their health by not taking care with diseases, etc..


Well thanks for the examples... I agree that patriarchy has repressed alot of us and made us feel guilty...alot of us turn to kinky stuff as a way to transcend it.

I looked at his profile a bit too. While I agree with your basic premise Bob, I don't agree with the way that you connect casual sex/BDSM/play with abuse. The worst-case arguments against casual sex seem to be emotional hurt and exploitation but - abuse? Abuse comes from picking a very bad character not engaging in casual sex..I do not see the connection as being clear.

< Message edited by alicenwondrland -- 2/18/2010 8:27:01 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 761
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:28:53 PM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved

quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland
Wow that WAS shitty Bob.


In what way?

I can see how her problem can wreak havoc with someone who suffers from low self-esteem.

Why should I not tell her when she is so obviously unaware of how she manifests this problem?



I am not going to continue engaging this but I will say: she actually wasn't manifesting any problem. She has a point and is being quite lucid on why she disagrees on part of your argument. When someone disagrees logically you do not attack ad hominem. That's childish.



(in reply to BLoved)
Profile   Post #: 762
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:30:35 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
You've done nothing but try to stir the pot.

Nah.  Hir posts in Ask A Mistress have been bantering, and hir posts in the last three pages of this thread have been logical and decent.  It looks to me as though xhe's trying to find a place here -- and xhe kinda likes it, perhaps much to hir surprise!

Alice, post the way you have been, and avoid emailing when you're livid, and you'll find that the past will wash away in a week or two.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 763
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:31:52 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland
I wouldn't be talking about my M.O. if I were you- AGAIN it's not like you are exactly blameless considering you all set the fires. I just provided the kindling so it spread. 


Alicedarling, neither of us is without fault, and I have already apologized to you publicly for my actions on the previous thread.  I am talking about M.O., and unapologetically so, because you are exhibiting the same pattern of behavior on this thread.  I have addressed my behavior, and modified it.  I have not seen the same from you.

(in reply to alicenwondrland)
Profile   Post #: 764
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:33:34 PM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:


My very first post to you was in regards to your complaint that older men kept contacting you and you didn't like it. I mentioned that since your screen name (at the time) was WendyDarling, that they were perhaps boys who never grew up...(like Peter Pan)

The rest of your comments are untrue. (and confusing.) (except for the fact that you DID in FACT admit to being born male. You know it, I know it, the mods know it, so give it up.)

If a mod needs to call me out, I am sure they will do so. I have been nothing but civilized to you since you've been here. You've done nothing but try to stir the pot.


Well that comment was fine- I am thinking of the following ones, when things got nasty. I PROMISE you that you were vicious to me. I will check the link tomorrow.

What are you talking about??? MODS? Know my biological sex? What are they geneticists? Have they somehow seen my birth certificate? Consulted my alleged sex-change doctors? WTF is wrong with you?

Mind-numbing how you continue on this ridiculous tract- is this all you have to insult me? You are a sly one aren't you?

Heh

I am contacting the mods anyway and inquiring about this.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 765
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:36:34 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I don't agree with the way that you connect casual sex/BDSM/play with abuse. The worst-case arguments against casual sex seem to be emotional hurt and exploitation but - abuse? Abuse comes from picking a very bad character not engaging in casual sex..I do not see the connection as being clear.


It irritates me that he paints people who willingly engage in sexual behaviors as being abused. There are people walking around that are really abused with no clear cut way to get out of it. Now, are there damaged people who engage in BDSM? Well hell yes there are! If these people are being damaged previously by an abuser and because of this past abuse find themselves attracted to this lifestyle, well it is the original abuser that is to blame, and the person who hasn't learned to heal themselves, not really the person who spanked their ass at the local dungeon. We have to take responsibility for ourselves at some point along the way, no better time than today..




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to alicenwondrland)
Profile   Post #: 766
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:37:14 PM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland
I wouldn't be talking about my M.O. if I were you- AGAIN it's not like you are exactly blameless considering you all set the fires. I just provided the kindling so it spread. 


Alicedarling, neither of us is without fault, and I have already apologized to you publicly for my actions on the previous thread.  I am talking about M.O., and unapologetically so, because you are exhibiting the same pattern of behavior on this thread.  I have addressed my behavior, and modified it.  I have not seen the same from you.


No actually, I never saw an apology, but I have been quite civil and will continue to be. I fought the good fight last time and it was a waste of an entire day of my life...this continues even now to be a waste. I am being deeply libelled in a terrible and shameful way, and simply should not be tolerated.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 767
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:38:42 PM   
BLoved


Posts: 642
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
but I haven't attacked you on a personal level the way you have attacked me...


I refer you to post 745 pg 38.

You attempt to accuse me of male chauvinism when my essays address a female audience.

What I have to say regarding casual bdsm applies equally to men and woman, dom or sub.

I do not now nor have I ever asserted the superiority of either gender or either role. I treat all with the respect their behaviour warrants.

As a human I have great respect for anyone who gives his or her all out of the love their beloved inspires in them. I recognize it takes tremendous courage and trust to achieve that degree of love, and anyone who manages it is a treasure to the world as far as I am concerned.

As with all of my writing, the essays from which you excerpted quotes serve a dual purpose: instruction and indentification.

On the one hand they are intended to provoke thought on the issues they discuss. I offer my own views on these subjects, but I also ask a lot of questions as several of the quotes you provided demonstrate.

On the other hand the lady I seek will be looking for a man whose ethics and beliefs match my own. She will want a man who will stand up for his truth, even in the face of adversity. She will want to know a man will stand by her no matter what life may throw our way.

However, none of this matters to you. You did not ask me for my position on gender equality. You accused me of being chauvinistic.

And therein is the problem I've pointed to.

You don't care who I am, or what I believe. I am merely a convenient target for you to rage against for you being victimized by someone you trusted in the past.

_____________________________

When your bdsm paradigm makes love essential, expect some flack from those for whom love is anathema.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 768
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:40:23 PM   
BLoved


Posts: 642
Joined: 8/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland
That's childish.


You are free to believe what you wish but you are not describing my reality.


_____________________________

When your bdsm paradigm makes love essential, expect some flack from those for whom love is anathema.

(in reply to alicenwondrland)
Profile   Post #: 769
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:43:02 PM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
You've done nothing but try to stir the pot.

Nah.  Hir posts in Ask A Mistress have been bantering, and hir posts in the last three pages of this thread have been logical and decent.  It looks to me as though xhe's trying to find a place here -- and xhe kinda likes it, perhaps much to hir surprise!

Alice, post the way you have been, and avoid emailing when you're livid, and you'll find that the past will wash away in a week or two.



Thank you-kinda. But, doesn't it strike you a bit morally disgusting to continue in your path of calling a woman all kinds of male names, libel me as transgendered and then expect her to not be livid? Does this not strike you as a bit hypocritical or abusive?

Of course I supppose it is hard to live down the  unique genders listed of my many fake accounts- that you guys caught lol, in much the same way that I was once a trangendered Native American from New York, Idaho, I suppose I could pretend to be a she-male. Or at least, not become livid at all of you over it.

Besides, I am pretty sure that if anyone in their right mind looked at my photos they could tell I am not male or trans. Also, since I've been hiding my profile (as it pops up on the home page so often), what people on this site might hear may matter even less.

Moral of the story: it's all good.


< Message edited by alicenwondrland -- 2/18/2010 8:45:07 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 770
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:43:58 PM   
BLoved


Posts: 642
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
It irritates me that he paints people who willingly engage in sexual behaviors as being abused. There are people walking around that are really abused with no clear cut way to get out of it. Now, are there damaged people who engage in BDSM? Well hell yes there are! If these people are being damaged previously by an abuser and because of this past abuse find themselves attracted to this lifestyle, well it is the original abuser that is to blame, and the person who hasn't learned to heal themselves, not really the person who spanked their ass at the local dungeon. We have to take responsibility for ourselves at some point along the way, no better time than today..


And what of the dom who refuses to take responsibility for who he chooses as a partner?

Do I not have a responsibility to ensure the person with whom I consent to engage in such a relationship is capable of it, her judgment unimpaired by previous damage?

Or does my responsibility end after checking for a pulse?

If I neglect my responsibility to ensure my partner is capable of meaningful consent, how responsible am I for further damaging my partner?


< Message edited by BLoved -- 2/18/2010 8:46:26 PM >

_____________________________

When your bdsm paradigm makes love essential, expect some flack from those for whom love is anathema.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 771
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:44:32 PM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I refer you to post 745 pg 38.

You attempt to accuse me of male chauvinism when my essays address a female audience.

What I have to say regarding casual bdsm applies equally to men and woman, dom or sub.



To be fair, she is simply attacking your IDEAS, not you as a person.

(in reply to BLoved)
Profile   Post #: 772
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:47:28 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		The moderators new hands off policy just went a little too far. Bob, is the ONE and ONLY person from this website that rubbed me wrong to the point, that I seriously dispise the fucker.

Those who know me, know I generally don't call people names on this message board.



< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/18/2010 8:52:11 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to alicenwondrland)
Profile   Post #: 773
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:51:27 PM   
BLoved


Posts: 642
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
The moderators new hands off policy just went a little too far. Bob, is the ONE and ONLY person from this website that rubbed me wrong to the point, that I simply dispise the fucker.

Those who know me, I generally don't call people names either on this message board, however, I will make a special exception here.


~smile~

And would that explain your multiple visits to my profile and your appearance in this thread?

You are naturally drawn towards those you "dispise"?

_____________________________

When your bdsm paradigm makes love essential, expect some flack from those for whom love is anathema.

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 774
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:54:05 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

You don't care who I am, or what I believe. I am merely a convenient target for you to rage against for you being victimized by someone you trusted in the past.


Actually no, I am not raging against you. I have no anger towards you. I do not care if you believe that or not, but it is the truth....

If you believe in gender equality, why is it wrong for women to post nude photos?

Why is it wrong to be bisexual?

Why is it wrong to have a poly relationship?

What makes this unethical?

If two people are enjoying themselves at a play party and one wants to be spanked and the other wants to spank, why is this a problem?

You equate this behavior to ABUSE... it shows me you do not know what abuse is, perhaps never having suffered it. Abuse takes place in every socio-economic class and every ethnic group. It is not confined to the world of BDSM. It is prevalent everywhere. People survive it and move on and build better lives...


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BLoved)
Profile   Post #: 775
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:54:54 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland

No actually, I never saw an apology, but I have been quite civil and will continue to be. I fought the good fight last time and it was a waste of an entire day of my life...this continues even now to be a waste. I am being deeply libelled in a terrible and shameful way, and simply should not be tolerated.



I think the entire thread was pulled.  I did apologize to you, and meant it.  Since the post was deleted, I'll happily repeat myself.

Alicedarling,  I deeply regret if my words in that previous thread caused you harm or distress, and do sincerely apologize for my actions.

There are personal reasons why your email effected me so viscerally, but you can't possibly know this, and it certainly doesn't absolve me from making such vulgar and crass jokes about your sexual identity.  

Again, you have my sincere apologies for my behavior on that previous post.

Charlotte

(in reply to alicenwondrland)
Profile   Post #: 776
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:55:27 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland

quote:

I refer you to post 745 pg 38.

You attempt to accuse me of male chauvinism when my essays address a female audience.

What I have to say regarding casual bdsm applies equally to men and woman, dom or sub.



To be fair, she is simply attacking your IDEAS, not you as a person.



I do not think he understands the difference


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to alicenwondrland)
Profile   Post #: 777
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 8:57:00 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland
I supppose it is hard to live down the  unique genders listed of my many fake accounts

Exactly.  When you joined the site, you agreed to follow its Terms of Service.  I've included an excerpt below.  As you signed electronically, under penalty of perjury, that you were male -- and did the same that you were female -- I'll be using gender-neutral pronouns with you.  You might notice that, since you violated the Terms of Service, the site has the right to terminate not just your right to post, but all your current profiles, and all future ability by you to create a profile -- in addition to civil and criminal sanctions, if appropriate.

As for me?  I'm just glad I can post here for a bit each day.  I hope you're glad you have the same privilege.

4.6.1.      Provide true, accurate, current and complete information about Yourself as prompted by the registration form (such information being the "Registration Data"); and 4.6.2.      Maintain and promptly update the Registration Data to keep it true, accurate, current and complete at all times while You are a member. You must promptly inform Website of all changes, including, but not limited to, changes in Your email address.  4.7.        If you provide any information that is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, or Website or any of its authorized agents have reasonable grounds to suspect that such information is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, Website has the right to suspend or terminate Your account and refuse any and all current or future use of the Website, as well as subjecting You to criminal and civil liability. 




_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to alicenwondrland)
Profile   Post #: 778
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 9:07:55 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

And what of the dom who refuses to take responsibility for who he chooses as a partner?


What about the submissive who refuses to take responsibility? There are all sorts of people who shirk their responsibilities in this world... I am responsible for my choices. I keep me safe. If I trust the wrong person then I am the one that pays the piper... no one else...

quote:

Do I not have a responsibility to ensure the person with whom I consent to engage in such a relationship is capable of it, her judgment unimpaired by previous damage?


Just as she is responsible to make sure you are not damaged as well... all sorts of damaged people in the world... some of them are subs, some doms, and some are vanilla... why do doms get extra special responsibilities to make sure of anything in this world, what makes them more responsible?

quote:

Or does my responsibility end after checking for a pulse?

What does this have to do with anything? If someone doesn't do the right thing that person should be called on their behavior... but to appoint one's self as blanket judge over who does and who doesn't behave correctly based on casual play... don't buy that. There are many dominants that play casually that keep the sub around for long enough to help with aftercare, and some subs don't even want it.

quote:

If I neglect my responsibility to ensure my partner is capable of meaningful consent, how responsible am I for further damaging my partner?


Every human being has this responsibility no matter the dynamic in the relationship... it goes for vanilla, sub and for dom.... I do not get a rain check on being ethical in my relationships because of an orientation. I took care of my Daddy when he was technically incapable of consenting to any relationship because of several medications he was taking. I stuck with him even though we couldn't have a dynamic.. it was up to me being the one that was in better health to understand he had short term limitations and to cope with that.. you would have me abdicate this responsibility to my partner because I am a sub? Seriously, you do act as though submissives cannot be counted on to protect themselves just because of their role, which just isn't true


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BLoved)
Profile   Post #: 779
RE: A legend returns ... - 2/18/2010 9:10:58 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved
~smile~

And would that explain your multiple visits to my profile and your appearance in this thread?


Did you use "who's viewing me" or refer to the results from an integrated web analytics solution for tracking online champaign results?

quote:


You are naturally drawn towards those you "dispise"?


Nice, yummy baiting question there bob. Come on bob, some of the most dispised people in history still draw people's attention, even though they are dead.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to BLoved)
Profile   Post #: 780
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